You are only 1/2 right

Not once, not 1 single time, not ever in the almost 100 episodes of the g1 cartoon was the ship that they used to get to earth ever called THE ARK

In fact....it was never named at all in any episode of the G1 cartoon

You should really look this stuff up before you reply

There doesn’t need to be proof that it’s the same primus......just the use of the name alone proves that the beast wars shows creative team was taking parts of the g1 comic into their shows back story

And “primus and the ark” aren’t the only examples

Not really
That was only the case very early in the series, but by the time of the film’s release the creation matrix and matrix of Leadership were pretty much the same thing with only a difference in abilities (one really)

Sorry but you can’t really say that’s the case Explicitly

Beast wars never made any declaration that it followed one over the other

[ yote]Can you name examples where beast wars burrowed exclusively from the comic book universe?[/quote]

Already did
Primus
The Ark

Heck even the Appearance of Starscream was based more on his appearance in the comics and not that of the G1 cartoon

[quite] (The closest and only thing i can think of is the use of the word primus.) But the whole covenant of primus thing i think is an original idea first appearing in beast wars. In the comic book world primus was a god, who became cybertron, and created the transformers.[/quote]’
The covenant of primus was an allegory for the stories in the Bible of gods covenant with his his creations m

Primus=God

See this is where this thinking fails

You are useing information that came from a later show to try to draw a case connection to an earlier one

What we learned from Beast Machines (not beast wars) was that cybertron was once organic......but that pretty much contradicts what the G1 cartoon told us

If we take everything we were told in each show as fact......then the G1 cartoon version of Cybertron can not be the same one from Beast machines

The season 3 G1 episode “5 Faces of darkness” clearly states the planet “cybertron was a factory BUILT the quints to build robots

Not settled, not terraformed but built......meaning no organic past

Now I’m willing to accept that the history contained in the matrix may not have been entirely accurate but that’s s different conversation

The bottom line, when Beast wars was being produced, the idea that cybertron May have been organic once had not even been conceived.....so it doesn’t help your argument in any way

Which universe beast wars “more” resembles is debatable and open to personal interpretation

It’s obvious that your lack of comic book familiarity and your misremembered G1 cartoon facts ( your claim that the autobot ship was called the Ark in the cartoon) have effected your ability to be impartial on the issue and judge things on the facts alone

In other words, you are wearing @G1 cartoon” goggles and can’t see anything else

The creative team behind the BE show took parts from both the comics and the cartoon......this is just a simple fact that can’t be denied

 

Animated uses our understanding of G1 continuity to fuel our expectations for the future. We know Optimus will grow out of his working-class role and be a leader. We know more and more lineages will be metamorphosed into Beast Warriors. We also saw it coming that Starscream would return from the dead. In The AllSpark Almanac 2, they say Cyclonus talks about this future ruler called Galvatron, and that he has Skywarp's brain patterns. That's the creative team telling us what they think the answer is.

But I don't actually think the answer matters. Galvatron's the only one to retain his memories and parts of his personality. Everyone else was just melted down and turned into generic henchmen. Scourge and Cyclonus are just the commanders of their respective types.

 

starscream coming back from the dead was not exclusive to G1 at the time, so no real shock there

The creation team behind the cartoon and The AllSpark Almanac are obviously G1 cartoon fans....and likely fans of Skywarp , but they can only tell us what they wanted the answer to be

They can’t change the facts of the past

But I fully agree with your last words, the answer really doesn’t matter .1 of the reformatted Characters retain any of his former personality and memories .The rest only served as parts for Unicron to remold, As far as personalities gos

Thundercracker shared very little in common with Scourge

And Cyclonus was really nothing like Bombshell or Skywarp

Most point to “loyalty” as evidence of a common personality trait between Cyclonus and Skywarp but it’s not a very strong argument

Theees no doubt they were new people

 

sunbow and marvel both start out relatively the same, they both have the dam battle from the first few episodes (at least marvel uk does), they both have the movie. beyond that you have to understand the context that i am saying that in. from the perspective of bw, g1 is g1 regardless of cartoon or comic. it is a singular history with conflicting stories. nobody knows exactly how g1 actually went down because the maximal elders sealed the records, creating the stories we know as the comic and cartoon.

bw combines g1 comic and toon for their history. the show creators have said as much. one of the origins for the vok has them being the final evolution of the swarm from g2, and that is their canon origin thanks to botcon and i believe the idw source books as well. in addition primus and the ark are never mentioned in the toon. it doesnt much matter what you thing because all evidence points to a composite history. another point for the composite history is ravage. he didnt speak in the cartoon, but he was quite chatty in the comics. theres once in the cartoon where he might have spoken, but its not really clear and it never happened again after that inital batch of episodes

 

I believe I understand your context, but the only way your analogy fits is from a “in universe” perspective.It doesn’t fit for the Audience

Yes, at the beginning both comic and cartoon both started out “ relatively the same”......at a seriously basic level only. Sure they were both living robots from an other world that find their way to earth......and that’s about it

When you go into all the details and events they all differ......even how many of the characters were portrayed differ in a number of cases ......origins personalities.......Etc. etc.

And bringing in the UK comics only makes this more complicated since it’s yet another continuity

Regardless of how you look at it, what the elders covered up , what they know or don’t know about their own true history.....is all irrelevant.

G1 comic and cartoon are 2 entirely different universes/continuities with different historical events......and the creators have stated they took from both to make up the back story of the Beast era. By combining comic and toon for their the bw show the creators effectively created a new universe/continuity with its own history

I think it was clear in the g1 toon when he spoke.....but that’s my opinion lol

 

yes, i was referring to the unreliable history from a purely in universe perspective  

and ravage talking in the toon is only questionable because it only ever happens once and if im not mistaken it was an unmodded dr claw voice so it could have just as easily have been soundwave talking and they forgot to mix that line (i could be mistaken on it being the dr claw voice, but soundwaves is literally dr claw run through a vocoder)

 

1. Ravage did speak at least once. Early on in more than meets the eye episode...while in cassette mode. After he was allowed to escape hound, and he reported to megatron about rocket fuel.

Concerning the Vok: i think these aliens where original and first introduced in beast wars. But tigatron2002 may have a point about the idea being taken from some older g2 comic books. (I am not certain, as i am unfamiliar with g2 comics)

As for cybertrons organic background. This was definately a g1 cartoon thing. In 5 faces of darkness, we are told by the wisdom of the matrix that the quintessons, built a factory on cybertron. Later on though in the episode the dweller of the depths. ..we are told a little bit more about cybertrons quintesson age. It seems that even before transformers where made, the quints experimented with alien beasts and made "transorganics" (part flesh bart robotic). In other words, cyborgs. (This concept is repeated in beast machines.) As decepticons and autobots went deep into cybertrons core, we see caves rather than a metallic surfaces and technology. This too is shown in beast machines....concerning cybertrons core. This shows that cybertron had an organic background.

More evidence:
in g1 animated: unicron was built by an organic alien named primacon.

In g1 animated , we have a super computer called vector sigma that gives life. (Not a god called primus...a comic book concept created after vector sigma concept ).

In g1 animated we are very breifly shown that the first sentient transformers were slaves. And that the rebellion against the quintessons began with warrior gladiators serving as entertainers for quintessons. I think later on the name prima is attributed to the first prime (first leader of transformers who carried the matrix and lead the resistance against quint overlordship. But i think at this point in history, autobots and decepticons are one, and did not split up. That occurred in the next age called the golden age)
But in quint age, their seemed to have been an organic past and genesis to cybertron in g1 animated. It is not clear if the quints were once pure organic, or indigenous to cybertron. They may have come from another world, (or just evolved in cybertron from more primitive organic life. They colonized an organic world, and gradually built a factory out of cybertron populated with slave robots. This is not just beast machines, but g1 animated supports the idea of organic creators of cybertron, unicron, and transformers.

 

see my point about ravage speaking being the dr claw voice and cybertrons organic background was marvel g1 as well since primus sealed himself into a preexisting planetoid and shaped it into cybertron as we know it.

 

Beast machines is a direct continuation of beast wars. Which is in turn a continuation of g1 (especially the animated).
Beast machines had vector sigma super computer with abilities to turn organic things into metalic. (This is not original to beast machines, as this was also a secret power that vector sigma had in g1 animated) perhaps this machine was built by early quint scientists, and this may explain how they converted a once organic world into a pure metalic factory.

 

you are ignoring the composite nature of the g1 that is the past of beast wars, it is a sequel to both the cartoon and the comic and does not work as a sequel to either on their own. and besides, this thread is way off topic at this point. I'm bowing out of this discussion because its literally going nowhere.

 

Well Frank did the voice for Ravage so you may have found the voice similar.....but I didn’t find it to be exactly “Dr Klaw

And it wasn’t “un-modded”

You can here ,what I describe as, a “metallic sounding” mod that was pretty commonly used on a number of characters

Either way it was more high pitched then Franks Dr Klaw or Soundwave before the modding

 

fair point, i couldnt remember if it was the exact voice or not, just knew it was close

 

He is on point

you are trying to twist the dialog to fit your argument.....and you are failing

Not a factory built on on Cybertron. We were told that cybertron itself, was A factory BUILT[/B] by the quints

Direct dialog from the first autobot leader to speak from the matrix

Aeons ago, Cybertron was a factory, built by the Quintessons to manufacture robots.

Again the entire planet was built by the quints as a factory

The “caves” we see in the episode you mentioned is a bit of a contradiction

1) we have seen depths of cybertron before in season 2..... never did we see any signs of organic material

2) the coloring used for those caves was pretty much all gray..... so it could have been all dust ontop of metal fir all we know

3) the quints were running experiments on organics....it isn’t a stretch in logic to assume that they would have incorporated materials and organic samples for the home world’s of those creatures into the labs they were running their experiments in

So there’s no solid evidence that the cybertron of the G1 cartoon ever had an organic past

And what is that evidence of?
Seems your argument is losing steam

Also proving nothing
And which concept cane first also proves nothing

The only thing you just proved is what we had told you several times, BW had parts from both the comic and cartoon

Primus and Vector Sigma

So thanks for proving our argument

To sum that up, you provided no evidence what so ever that Probes with out exception that cybertron of the g1 cartoon ever had an organic past

That is true enough......but Neither of the beast shows is a direct continuation of the g1 cartoon

Beast machines had vector sigma and beast wars had Primus

One from the comic the other from the cartoon

You can’t win this argument by denying the cold hard facts

 

I am not denying the g1 comic book worlds contribution to the beast wars world. I aknowledge this now. All i am saying is that the beast wars emphasizes the animated world more than the comic book world.
Beast machines for instance focuses way more on the g1 animation genesis account of cybertron way more than the comic book genesis account for cybertron. (Example the organic past of cybertron before the quintessons built cybertron as a factory populated with transformer robots)

 

and again, in the comics primus put himself into an organic planetoid to shape it into cybertron. being an organic planetoid prior to being cybertron is actually more clearly stated in the comic since its stated outright rather than implied through inconsistent animation

 

Beast wars did not have primus. You are wrong. Can you provide me with a reference to primus in beast wars?

The covenant of primus is not evidence. I speak of the god primus not the transformer bible.

The caves show evidence or rock and earth. Both which contain carbon....which is necessary for organic life. There are other season 3 g1 episodes showing water in cybertron as well.

The quints; primacon, and the transorganics, and vectors sigmas power, are all evidence of an organic past of cybertron as well.

Case closed.

 

Furthermore their is the evidence from beast machines itself. Which is continueing the tale began since g1 times

 

Now that i think of it....even air (oxygen) is found on cybertron as well. Spike and other humans often breathed and even referred to winds on cybertron. And Only plant life could produce oxygen.

 

Yea I’m out, if the covenant of Primus isn’t enough evidence for you then there’s no point continuing this conversation. A bible in and of itself is at least proof that the concept of Primus exists in beast wars

 

The word primus is all we have. Nothing more. No mention of a god at all.

Vector sigma on the other hand is mentioned and appears in beast machines.

Recall words of the super computer vector sigma from g1 show:
" before cybertron was, i was"
The super computer might be identifying cybertron with the metalic factory. But this in no way implies that cybertrons organic past did not exist. Beast nachines clarifies that it was a reality. And the show ended with a return to that primeval organic cybertronian paradise.[/QUOTE]