Let me jump in to help every one answer some of the questions and concern every one been having.

This figure over all had a lot of consideration put in when produced. The following should answer some questions

1) Diecast. It is true that almost all 3rd parties company these days just slap metal on their figure to add weight and give that heft feeling for the figure, but in reality when ST produce this figure they did consider, and can easily slap on a diecast feet to add weight to it. That will however cause some problem. Diecast will increase retail price which they didn't not want to. Diecast will deceive buyer on quality, because when you add weight to a figure first impression will over shadow all other quality issues. Diecast is double edge sword, use correctly (joints, and pron to stress area) it can strengthen quality of the figure. Use incorrectly (structure irrelevant area like a whole leg and arm) will just deceive on over all quality, and put additional stress on joints. So yes, diecast was consider heavily, but was finally determined not to be used, in the interest of user. Also there are companies out there just out right use cheap plastic, but put diecast to fill the weight gap. I think we collector have a good feeling what those are.

2) Plastic quality. Some one have mention we are not plastic expert, and I am not plastic expert. But I do understand that, same type of plastic after production can feel different. This is due to plastic mix composition to create the correct balance plastic. Not all plastic are mixed the same way. the same virgin ABS after mixing can create different strength and feel to it. To my understanding ST did not cheap out on plastic at all. The plastic is mix to achieve high strength and over all look. Especially if it need to be painted as plastic mix need to bond well with paint to prevent paint chip. All are sciense beyond me, but i do know that this was consideration when creating the figure. As to what people say about feel light and cheap, it is not cheap, but lighter than Diecast, and I have talked about Diecast above. If a figure is this heavy and contain no Diecast, then it is pretty dense plastic and definitely good plastic IMO.

 

Who exactly is using diecast incorrectly these days that it is creating all these issues? The only cases I have seen are really all good uses that do improve (if not the overall quality) the general feel of the toy.

The worst offenders of diecast were the horrible titanium figures which this toy is based on, and I sincerely hope 10 years later we are way past that mark. Unless there is some KFC or other unknown company out there making horrible figures with poorly used diecast placement, I'm really not sure of any of the big 3P companies that are doing it wrong.

If anything, that really seems like a cop out to me and making excuses, trying to increase profit margins to further future endeavors, when both Giga and FT are producing massive versions of slag that will likely include heavy diecast and retail at the $140 mark. What am I missing here?

I like this toy and am waiting for some stellar reviews but that diecast comment just read like dookie to me.

 

I do not have another TF example where diecast was misused, but have one Soul of Chogokin that used it in the wrong places (forearms, but not elbows), and the Play Imaginative Iron Patriot that was loaded with diecast, but a floppy mess.

 

FYI:

It was announced early in the project that diecast parts will not be used due to structural issues. Spark Toys want to be able to give the consumers a quality product that would also be affordable, in a timely manner.

 

saying you're not going to buy something because it doesn't have diecast or use fantoy's plastic is absolutely ridiculous. collectors have become so entitled it's sickening.

 

That just reads to me like they don't know how to do it properly, so went for plastic instead to get it to market faster and keep their costs lower instead of figuring out how to get it done properly. Which would have required more time, effort, rework, etc. hence more money.

I completely understand THAT if that is what they are trying to say regarding getting diecast to work. But putting a spin on it that it wouldn't be good quality, diecast isn't used well these days, would cost more to produce, etc. paints a different picture to me that I do not like because we have seen from several other companies that isn't true.

Yeah, was mainly talking about any has/tak or 3P stuff within the TF universe for examples. I'm sure there are plenty of other stuff outside of the TF arena that still produce garbage quality diecast, but for the most part, it seems like the majority of companies under the transforming robot banner have figured out how to use the stuff properly, and to a figures advantage.

 

lol at this guy's profile reads: turd party dumpsterpiece. don't feed the trolls.

 

I don't know, MMC Reformatted line doesn't have any diecast, and they are great toys, maybe some of the best plastic ever, but obviously not heavy like with Die Cast.

I collect both, all plastics such as MMC Reformatted, and nice cold heavy die cast such as FT, so I am covered. I have a Macross Valk, the VF-17 Fire, that has die cast at key joins and skeletal part I think, and that extra bit of heft sure makes me feel good about it, although all my other Macross Valks are all plastic and I love them all very much too.

For this figure, I think Die Cast on the feet / part of the legs could have potentially been nice, and maybe on some other discrete / re-enforcing areas, as seen fit, and enough to give it that bit of feel, but not too much to make the joints loose.

Edit: Oh and there is plastic, and then there is cheap super light plastic. I got Igear PP-01, and that thing is so light, a bit of breeze can potentially make it fall... So plastic weight / quality can matter too. That said, fortunately for me, I think that toy was the worst offender I still have, and the rest are ok. I have UT Sharky, and he is a bit on the light side, but much better than Igear PP01.

 

So, I LOVE diecast robots, Bandai, Sentinel, Yamato/Arcadia, Fanstoys all "get me" Generally, the more the better, even if it's superfluous. As long as it doesn't negatively effect the figure (looking at you SRC GGG, and Toynami as a whole). But most of the current 3Ps really do use it simply as a "premium feel" kinda thing. None of the diecast used on FT's stuff, for example, actually provides any structural integrity, it's all purely aesthetic. Swoop's shoulders and chest panels? Purely unnecessary. Although he feels so lovely and dense! Hey, what can I say, the "premium feel" trick works on me.

That said, I'll NEVER fault a toy for not using it. I've got plenty of all plastic figures, that are every bit as high quality, functional, and enjoyable as the ones that contain diecast. As long as the plastic, paint, and overall engineering is great, the diecast is just a bonus. The diecast doesn't suddenly make the figure better, or highly quality, most of the time, it literally is just an added feel. Generally diecast metal is not an expensive material, a good plastic can be just as costly.

If Spark Toys decided specifically not to use it, I'm sure they had a good reason that just "because they were being cheap". Diecast does chip easier than painted plastic, and can require more paint. Plus, something that was not brought up: Plastic takes molded detail MUCH better than diecast. Plastic will yield sharper corners, deeper cuts, and all around more defined details.

 

Exactly. I think it could have been implemented quite well in places, but it seems like whatever areas they planned to have diecast in the protos or test shots did not work out properly, so they scrapped it and went plastic instead. Again, totally fine if that is the reasoning and they didn't feel like investing more money into this when they didn't know if the product would sell or whatnot. That's a big risk factor with an unknown reward, and understandable.

But evilcat's post directly commentated on, with what is imo, poor excuses to not use diecast when a lot of companies are doing it correctly. That felt more like an excuse than rationale.

Agreed. My preference is diecast, but I'm still contemplating getting this figure. Again, good skullface review puts me over the edge regardless of if it's using plastic, diecast, a mix of both, or held together with old shoe polish.

You listed great reasons to not use it, but that is again, not the feedback from Spark Toys that was in evilcat's post. What is stated in there and from what daimchoc quoted sounds more of like losing time and money dicking around trying to incorporate diecast efficiently. Skip it, do plastic, ship it, see how it is received.

And no badmouthing to them if thats what they decided was the best course of action. Just don't sugarcoat it as "sometimes diecast is bad" when in reality there's not too many examples anymore of it being used poorly.

 
Shhh...it's the only way I fly under the "official only" fanboys radar these days

cover blown  

 

But diecast is a tricky material to use. If you have solid engineering and design and you still skip on using diecast, does that make them lazy? Good design is good design. Diecast will make bad design worse and might make a good design worse too. I view Binaltech and Alternators figures as great examples of the pros and cons of the diecast debate. I own a ton of BT and Alt figures and I slightly like Alt figures more because they are easier to pose and a lot less prone to scratches or flaking. Back to ST-- they look like they designed a quality figure. Even if they chose to not use diecast to save time and money, I don't knock them on that. That's just my opinion though.

 

Thanks so much for resolving some questions/concerns. Pls make sure that Spark Toys will see our responses to the product and they will improve on the next figure, but it apparently doesn't need much improvement. I will definitely be picking this dude up. I'm glad that the cost is lower, and the plastic is awesome  

 

Aha! Using the ol' WFC scientist disguise trick. I miss kill streak bonuses. Anyways..

Definitely not "grippy" and elastic like on Alternators or MP-10. It's smooth and offers much less friction than the rubber we're used to. Hard to describe how it feels and I don't own anything that's comparable.

 

They've already tried to use diecast, but it was unstable for this project. To make it a quality product, and as mentioned by others, not everybody uses diecast parts, they used all production quality plastic parts. So, it's not a poor excuse, but a decision made to make sure that it doesn't fail in your (the consumer's) hands.

Please note, this is just in my opinion. It does not reflect what the company has in mind.

 

This figure is really cool. Looks great and I really need to play with it some more. The plastic quality is not an issue. Light but strong. Reminds me of early tfc or mmc

 

Sounds like there'll be a "KO" with metal bits.

 

Bottom line is, Spark toy Prime doesn't need die cast.
Same way that the TT car robots don't need die cast.
It's well made anyway, solid and has weight without it.
I don't get why it would need die cast or what the problem is with it not having die cast.
It's a really well made toy.

 

Because it's all about the heft, heft = quality.

 

So just did a quick comparison weight wise with MP10, though had to use the old scales as my digital ones have gone belly up.

MP comes in at 440g, Alpha at 460g.

Heft is not an issue for this guy at this size.

Edit, that was with them both holding gun and axe accessories, not that it makes a huge difference.

 

Yup. haha.

Ten tonnes of crap is obviously better than one by that logic  .

Orion2703 has hit the nail on the head. He's the same / /comparible to MP10.
So maybe we should all bin MP 10 due to his lack of heft and being lightweight next to a full plastic toy.

Most of the people who are complaining about him seem either to not own him and using facts like 'no die cast' to formulate an opinion (or just plain make it up when it comes to weight lol)

Is there anyone who actually owns this who has negative feedback or experience. I'd be interested. More interested in that than speculation on why people think it's bad..

Mines good, but is that a widespread thing?