Ok i will bite
I am basically tired of this gender arguements all over the place,I mean the franchise is having more female representation which is good and writers are able to handle female characters well.

If alls going well,whats the problem arising??

My thoughts exactly ☝

 

Clever comic. But, unsurprisingly, it doesn't relate to what is going on here. You have ignored the arguments I've put out, and instead argued against positions I've not advanced. That's the definition of the straw man fallacy. I'd love to have a reasoned argument with you if you would actually address the points and issues being proposed.

Making them more human isn't necessarily a good thing. We have all sorts of fiction about humans. It would be nice to see fiction that explored ideas that are less naturally human.

We have all sorts of fiction that explores humanity through things human. I would argue that the fiction would do more to explore humanity by *not* being so human. Having a society which has no gender allows for more comparing and contrasting with humanity. It allows humanity to react to such a society. It allows the fiction to challenge human societies' assumptions.

More women representation in writing, editorial, and executive positions is great. I'd argue that all is *not* going well in the fiction as it regards the inclusion of gender, where we mostly have reliance on and reinforcing of stereotypes and fictional tropes involving gender.

 

I dunno why you suddenly brought animals into the mix, because it's not like humans are mere animals compared to Cybertronians. Humans and Cybertronians are both sentient and can communicate on an even level. There are big differences in lifespans and fragility, yes, but Cybertronians are very much like humans intellectually and emotionally.

Going back to my previous comparison and framing your question that way ie. would I involve myself in a relationship with a person with a terminal illness whom I loved... Well, yes, because I love them. I'm not going to be a childish asshole and dump them completely because they're going to die soon. That's not how healthy adult relationships WORK.

Again, people do this all the time in real life. The fact that so many think that a difference in lifespan is a dealbreaker in an adult romantic relationship paints a very bleak, heartless, and selfish portrait.

A relationship between a human and Cybertronian would be more difficult than one between members of the same sentient species, yes, but it could most certainly work if the writer cares enough to show them working through problems that pop up.

 

I really think that people are downplaying this "different species" part.

It's a huge gap.

I don't believe it's something that should be so casually dismissed.


It's not selfish to look into a perspective of a relationship. More like it's a responsible approach.

I think that an analogy between humans and animals is spot on, or at least it's the closest equivalent.

Aside of similar intelligence level there's nothing but diferences between humans and TFs.

And, again, disparity between a Cybertronian and a human is barely imaginable. It's not a difference between healthy human and dying human, or even between a human and an intelligent insect. It's a whole new level.

I think if writer was about to explore it they should use it as an opportunity to show why ultimately it can't work or end well.

I think that the reason why I like Cons more than Bots is because with Cons authors remember to show, if in a tokenised way, what is much more natural attitude towards creatures that, an entire civilisation, may be gone ong before you even get middle-aged.
And Cons usually don't take other species as nothing but passing curiosity even when they're not interested in destroying them.

I think this notion of comparing a relationship with a Cybertronian to any kind of relationship between two humans is a case of humanisation gone a bit too far.

 

I'm sorry, but given how humanized Cybertronians are in IDW fiction (and especially MTMTE), they are way more similarities than differences between the two canonically. You can say that there should be more of a difference between the two realistically, but we've had TFs enter into romantic relationships with one another exactly like humans, we've seen them with the same mental illness issues, we've seen them enjoy the same sort of media and do the same sort of cultural things (dancing, enjoying music, drinking to get inebriated, eating socially, etc.). At this point, we have more in common with them than we don't.

It could definitely work if written with care (ie. not as an average preteen fanfic romance but as a romance between two adults committed to one another and to working through their issues). And goodness, there have been tons of serious science fiction exploring this kind of thing and succeeding. I don't see why people are so adamant that it couldn't work just because they've seen some terrible fanfiction before. That's like writing off an entire film genre because you saw a few bad B movies.

 

MTME definitely can be viewed as a case of humanisation gone too far in a few ways. It's not a good model to aim for.

Weren't relationships supposed to be something really rare even between TFs?

A relationship between TF and another lifeform should be even harder to find. And much more difficult to start. Not to mention it should be absolutely shocking in-universe.

 

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, and personally I think Roberts has gone a bit far in the humanization process too. All the same, that's the model canon is working on.

*shrugs* What's done is done.

I think that went out the window the moment Getaway and Skids tried to get romantic with Firestar the moment they noticed her, and the casual mention of the two ladies in a romantic relationship. Plus there's been several new relationships depicted in the Windblade series.

 

Which is ?

 

I see....

 

IDW wouldn't have needed to be in the mess had Simon Furman just not bothered to write this take on Arcee.

 

Yea^^
I mean either they would have kept females from the beginning or did t had them at all and we are in a silly little mess that doesnt even relevant to the main comic story

 

Like I previously mentioned, it was shoved into the corner for good reason but that reason is a giant mess. Do we really have anything else to say?

 

I don't mind that they have genders, I just hate how poorly it has been handled by IDW. People want to blame Furman, but what did they expect when he handled Arcee by making her a creation of the Autobots because humans saw them as male, during his Marvel run? Besides, they are the ones who published the story.

Plus, tbh, IDW sucks at original characters. They have to be mysterious, special, or somehow not follow the rules previously set up in the universe.

 

In the story, it was because of angry feminists if I remember correctly.

I think Furman just dislikes fembots in general. Which is why they should have never let him near Arcee in the first place.

 

Furman always had a sexist outlook of fembots, could never accept that genderless can also look and talk faux female, not only faux male.
Hence his need to explain female robots only.

It was known since The Prime's Rib and letting him to write about female bots was also an editorial mistake. He simply shouldn't be ever allowed to do so.

It's a collective fail, not just Furman's.

After all, he wrote the story. And then someone allowed it to be printed.

Editorial back ten also was lacking.

 

Very well put Raindance!

 

Exactly.

 

Boy ain't that the truth...


This is especially apperent with female characters, who have to have some convoluted backstory, be Demi-gods or mary sues.

 

Exactly.

 

What? Drift wasn't amazing?  

And yes, most of IDW's characters have fit into this exact mold - Drift, Turmoil, Tarn, and on down the line. They have done a good job with the Point One Percenters and spark types, though.