Thanks it's just few of us could imagine what it would be like to head one of these movies all the elements you have to balance it would be a nightmare.

The truth is yes there are flaws several but i can't let those get to me a little off topic here but it was the same thing with the recent Arrow finale everyone i know is complaining about and yes they are right but those things they didn't really like and that i didn't care for as well weren't the whole episode generally the people i knew stopped liking it right where the bad guy was defeated and yes i didn't like that but i liked nearly everything before and after one or two things i didn't like does not condemn an entire episode

it is the same with transformers i didn't like that the dinobots didn't talk (I knew they would only be in the end) I didn't like that we didn't see the fight on the bridge, I didn't like that Galvatron didn't fight in the climax, and I felt the elevator and card scene were a waste and i hated Shane

That however just like with this finale of arrow doesn't magically remove what i did like it's all still there and in both cases the good far out weighed the bad.

The thing is other people aren't like that when something they don't like happens they forget everything else and only focus on that single aspect here's solid proof

Revenge of the Fallen, here's what people bring up, the two dogs humping twice, sam's mom getting high, the college professor, Simmons ass shudder, Leo with his pants down, Jetfire farts a parachute, Wheelie humps Mikelias leg, the border crossing, and devestators ball, and of course the fallen dying too quick, Megatron being the Fallens bitch

Yes that is a lot however it also gave us, the opening with the Fallen, the shanghai battle, Bumblebee and Sam, Optimus and Galloway, Ravage retrieving the shard, Sam and Optimus, Megatrons resurrection, the scene on the nemesis, Megatron and Sam, the forest battle, Megatron and Starscream on the building, The decepticons arrival and global message, Nest disbanding, Sam and Bumblebee in the junkyard, The Fallens backstory, Megatron is never once shown grovelling to the Fallen he respects him but never acts weak in front of him, he still kills Optimus and Sam and survives operation firestorm he's still very dangerous and badass.

There are far more good scenes than bad and the good scenes are far longer than the bad does all that really negate all those good scenes because it shouldn't but that's all fans can think of I'm not like that I just go okay i didn't like that moving on and continue watching because the only thing that will make me say a movie or episode sucks is if everything or most of it did not a handful of really bad scenes

I'm aware it's difficult to render the robots so i'll accept the human scene than transformer scene structure so long as the scenes have at least one relevant thing to the story which they do i'll accept Sam's arc so long as it ties to the transformers arc which it did pretty quickly too i might add, the college section is 15 minutes max i can tolerate that

To enjoy something truly you can't let things that bother you really get to you my whole family has this problem but it's one we can't have if we want to be able to fully enjoy what we watch we have to acknowledge but accept what we didn't like and go okay i didn't like that right there but i liked a lot or everything before so for now i'm just going to move past that and continue the story.

If all we ever focus on are the things we don't like while ignoring the good we'll never be truly satisfied with anything we get simply put back to arrow here, An anticlimatic end to a good fight and a shipping ending does not negate the great character moments before or the good action scenes, while with revenge the bad humor does not negate the rich exploration of the transformers mythology and the massive action scenes

focus on what you liked ignore what you didn't if there is way too much to ignore than your hatred is valid if the stuff you ignore add up to 10 or 15 minutes or five minutes for an episode than it's not worth disregarding everything else that's just how i see it if i liked the first half of something and the second half continues that but has a few slip ups it's not going to ruin everything i like nor should it I'm just going to show a little irritation than move on it's just better than completely ignoring everything and bitching about it.

 

Yeah it can just make it a good movie.

 

I think there is a misconception that people are looking for perfection. Name any film, even the most classic of classic films and you will find something wrong with it. There isn't a movie out there where every frame from the opening scene to end credits is 100% flawless.

So like with food it's a matter of degrees. If I find my bowl of soup has a little too much salt it might keep it from being the perfect bowl of soup but something where I can say oh well and still enjoy it. Now if I find a dead rat in my soup even if everything else was perfect I'm not going to eat the soup saying well the chef only made one mistake.

That's what it's been like with films. Other studios haven't been giving me perfect like the soup maybe the films didn't have enough of one ingredient, maybe another ingredient was bland and added nothing, but overall something to enjoy. But the Transformers films have been like the dead rat in the soup, even if there are good things the bad ruins the whole thing. Even worse is that the idea of improvement for the Transformers films is like finding a dead mouse in your soup instead of finding a dead rat.

I honestly don't think Paramount knows how to fix these films so it's always going to feel like there are better films in any given year than what Transformers film they put out that year.

 

In this case of building a CU out of Bay's movies, it's like the chef taking the dead rat out of the soup and calling it clean to eat. The next TF movies can be oscar worthy but so long as they're attached to what they have to work with now, not alot of people will be satisfied. Me included.

To me, the movies are enjoyable at first/second viewing. After that I can't really re-watch them without getting bored or tired. I used to be a pretty good fan of the movies, simply accepting that they are what they are. However, building a TFCU based off the last 4 movies sounds unacceptable Enough for me to really call the movies out on their flaws, because honestly, there are MORE than plenty. And as much as people wanna type up a book on how there's good in the movies.....the bad just vastly outnumbers the good. It just does.

And when part of the "bad" is that the general audience, not including us transfans, really does think these movies are a joke with stupid action.....theres a serious fucking problem. Ive had people in real life actually tell me that they care more about the humans than they ever could for the transformers. Thats why so many people cant even remember Optimus Prime's fucking name! But then, what did the production team of AOE think would happen when ALL the humans in the movie referred to him as "the truck"?????

 

Kick Bay off and we can maybe talk about fix this up.

 

You need a director of each spin off not fixing it

 

It doesn't matter when food is ruined it can make you sick when something is bad is in a movie it's just a scene, no one scene should ruin a movie or even multiple if it does than sorry if it sounds rude here but if it does if you can't get past 15 minutes of a two and half hour movie then you don't deserve to enjoy it.

I'm sorry but that's just it, if there is one section and let's be honest with Revenge all people remember is that one section and if that makes you forget everything else than in my opinion you don't deserve to enjoy the movie

It's the same thing with my brother with the prime finale he can't get past Bumblebee killing Megatron so the whole episode sucks if that's all it takes he doesn't deserve to enjoy it and the same holds true for all of you and me.

Perfect soup god please don't tell me you're referring to Marvel, sucky villains, a lack of emotional depth, an overload of witty one liners, no real danger or tension, and character development is minimum or hollow, emotional scenes amount to a character having their head down and talking quiet newsflash a superhero can cry.

These are massive flaws and i can still get past them, I can still manage to enjoy an movie that has completely killed any sense of danger or tension, if that's your perfect soup than i fear for the future of action movies Fast seven was even worse no story no logic no character no anything and people want the transformer movies to be that.

Age of extinction was a million times better than that if a transformer movie is like fast seven i won't be able to get past the flaws because Fast 7 depth was on the level of commando that is way too low

you think i'm wrong than make a copy of the transformer movie remove the scenes you don't like and see how much you take out than i bet a lot of you but certainly not all of you will realize holy crap there is actually a lot of good stuff here did i really let that 15 minutes ruin the entire movie.

There's more story than people give credit i had a little test run i watched age and dark without the action scenes yeah no where near as rewarding but i still enjoyed it and felt something i did the same with the avengers and it was hollow no real emotion at all don't believe me try the test yourself see how emotionally investing Avengers is when you remove the spectacle and see just how much emotion the last two transformers have when you remove the spectacle and many of you will understand where i am coming from

there is no dead rat there's just too much salt problem you hate salt but there is more in there than you would ever admit that's the difference that separates things i can enjoy a transformer movie without the action i can't do that with marvel and i don't think many could that's why i prefer transformers try the test and see which one has you more emotionally invested maybe you will have a different perspective regardless won't it be fun to find out.

 

If they fire Bay and reboot it, maybe. Doubt that will happen.

Also, it is not just "spoiled fans" that do not like these movies. They're seen as pretty poor films by most reviewers.

 

Been there, done that, point goes to the Genius-Billionaire-Playboy-Philanthropist, the God of Thunder, the Star-Spangled Man with a Plan, and the Enormous Green Rage Monster.

It won't.

I'd think most of the people giddily forking over cash to sit through two hours of these things over and over wouldn't give a crap at all about critical opinions of the TF movies, but that's just me.

As things stand, these movies are hardly coherent enough to support a shared/spinoff universe, so this raft of new writers is going to have a Herculean task ahead of them.

 

Movies can be perfect...you just have to tune out the flaws.  

but yeah I agree especially about Paramount really not knowing what to do and how to fix the films. They need an outsiders source.

 

you can watch the action scenes of avengers just the action scenes and pretty much still understand the movie

Loki steals the cube and brainwashes hawkweye, Fury sends cap and black widow after him they capture him with iron man's help, Thor shows up to take Loki they fight Thor and bring Loki back to the helicarrier, Hawkeye and Loki''s men attack the helicarrier Banner turns into the hulk and fights Thor resulting in hulk being attacked by a bunch of jets and sent plummeting off the helicarrier while widow fights Hawkeye breaking Loki's control, cap holds off Loki's forces while Iron man fixes the helicarrier, fury engages in a gunfight against Loki's forces driving them off, Loki is freed, kills coulson eject Thor from the helicarrier and escapes, Avengers rally while Loki uses the cube to open a portal unleashing the chitauri the avengers fight the chitauri while Thor fights Loki, Loki stabs Thor, Avengers all come together finally as a team and hold off the chitauri while government prepares to launch Nuke Black widow finds out Loki's scepter can close the portal Iron man intercepts the nuke flying it into the portal and wiping the chitauri out Black widow closes the portal, Loki is apprehended.

That is pretty much the story watch the opening narration and you're set other than a few character introductions you will understand the movie that's how little the plot mattered i know i left out the whole phase two weapon plot but that was completely pointless in the end it was there to serve as plot device that the avengers could argue over it serves no purpose after that scene and has no pay off.

watching just the dialog would be so unrewarding because nothing big happens you miss every story thing pretty much it's almost filler now

the stuff between the action should be the story there should be big reveals that pay off later there should be character arcs that unravel it should feel relevant the action should be there to drive the story not the other way around and make no mistake i have little doubt all the action scenes were written first no movies plot should be completely understandable by watching just the action scenes

Compare age of extinction, Ratchet is murdered by cemetery wind and lockdown, Cemetery wind comes to Cade's farm for optimus threatening Tessa they are rescued by shane resulting in a chase across Texas while Optimus is chased by Lockdown they manage to escape while Lucas dies, The autobots raid KSI confronting it's owner about the desacrating of their friends corpse KSI sends their man made drones after them resulting in a fight during the fight Optimus is shot from behind by Lockdown who takes him and Tessa who was trapped in a car, Cade, Shane and the autobots board Lockdowns ship to rescue them Cade finds a gun like sword and rescues Tessa they cross the anchors and are saved from Lockdowns wolves by bumblebee they board a dropship Crosshairs hijacked resulting in a chase with the other ships The other autobots rescue optimus and hijack part of lockdowns ship, Galvatron comes online and brings the drones under his control sending them after the seed and destroying the china falicity, Autobots arrive in Hong Kong and battle Galvatrons drones while Cade battles and kills Savoy Optimus frees the dinobots from Lockdowns ship and defeats Grimlock the dinobots destroy galvatrons forces, Lockdown returns and uses a gravity ray to suck everything up Optimus shoots down the ship and engages Lockdown Cade, Tessa and Shane return and aid him allowing Optimus to kill him.

one the action scenes are more unique and two just watching those do not tell you the whole plot it's actually pretty confusing so many questions about KSI, Megatron, Transformium you get none of that if watch just the action scenes you miss the character scenes as well the action is part of the story it isn't the story itself unlike Avengers which i proved with straight up facts

Simply put if you watch just the action scenes in avengers you will actually understand the story, Age of extinction if you watch just the action scenes you miss the whole story very little makes sense no matter how you sugar coat it nothing will change this fact the avengers was written solely around the action scenes with the dialog just being their to fill in blanks Age of ultron wasn''t as bad but it was still similar, guardians was almost exactly like that the action scenes tell the entire story

this is just to put it bluntly true and as a result watching the movie without the action scenes would be very unrewarding not to mention you miss most of the plot, that's just not the case with transformers if i'm wrong prove it don't just say i'm wrong and your right put down some actual facts to back up your claim

 

Are they really though? There's a wealth of stories and characters to mine from the comics and cartoons. AoE was a mess, but it didn't exactly overhaul the continuity. There is exactly one limiting factor here, and that's the destruction of Cybertron. All they have to do is build off of the fresh start AoE gave us, and make a good movie. It's certainly no less difficult than starting from a reboot. They've already set-up the creators as one of the big-bads, they've sent Prime off-world (which is absolutely begging for a solo film), they have a core-group of characters on Earth that can carry the mainline story. If they bring in old characters like Epps or Simmons, that's more potential.

I really don't see an issue here.

 

First off two and a half hours for a Transformers movie is way too long. Very few films have the plot, story, and characters to sustain an action movie that long. Far too much filler that should either be left on the cutting room floor or the director's edition home release.

If it was just 15 minutes of bad it would be one thing. But unless you are Bay fan boy then there is way more than just 15 minutes of bad to these films. In Revenge of the Fallen you've got all the bad of Leo Spitz and all the bad of the Twins so that's a lot of bad off just three characters. As if the balls weren't bad enough they toss in the deus ex machina of a ship we haven't heard of just happens to have a super weapon within range that we never ever hear of again even though this super weapon can kill the biggest of Transformers with just one shot that can be dead on by some radioing in that it's climbing the Pyramid.

With the Transformers film you could just have a highlight reel of the big action scenes to see everything that was worth watching in any of the films. The story and characters hardly seem worth all that effort just see the latest in special effects.

 

^^ROTF is said to be terrible even by many fans of the TF movies so comparing the other TF movies to ROTF isn't really fair because most of the things people didn't like about ROTF were addressed in DOTM and AOE. Even Bay himself said that he thought ROTf did terribly.

 

ROTF was actually a great movie given all they were working against at that time. Leo and the Twins are bad examples. The Twins were actually pretty cool not nearly as bad as people make them out to be, but even if you don't like them all three characters are background players. It's like bashing Avengers because you don't like Hawkeye or Agent Hill

 

@Lord Tron. All I'm gonna say is, if you're comparing the movies of Avengers to those of Transformers, and Transformers comes out on top... you're probably not looking at things objectively enough.

 

And that right there is the problem the special effects are not the only reason your watching the movie a highlight reel would show the action but you would know nothing about the story and mythology

The characters are more fleshed out than a lot of Marvels really what do we know about Rhodey what character development has he gone through what do we know about any of Thor's friends, what do we know about bucky, or Falcon besides he's a former war soldier who lost his partner not really a lot the problem is Marvel is too concerned with making their characters likeable as a result very few of them have an actual personality you could describe say what you want about the human characters but you can at least describe most of their personalities they may not always be likable but you can describe their personality with Marvel other than the avengers and Loki you really can't.

If you disagree then counter what i said about avengers note i am comparing Dark and age not the first two think of actual emotional character stuff in avengers that matches anything done with Optimus in those two name anything as intriguing as Sentinel's betrayal or the autobots being hunted or even galvatron, explain why avengers plot is better than Age why it is more emotional actually give a character arc in that movie that matches optimus or even Cade.

I see both movies flaws but Avengers are way bigger because just like i said the action scenes in avengers are the plot everything else filler Banner has one scene with Tony, one angry moment during the argument scene and his big moment in the climax which is a one liner he doesn't have any real character development and what little he did Age of ultron took away

Tony stark's story basically amounts to learning to work with others as a team and proving himself a hero, basically the same arc he went through in iron man 2 and the only actual character parts of it are his scene with banner the long arguement and the scene with cap after coulson's death and his dialog with Loki what a breathtaking arc

Cap's sole reason being in the movie is to be at odds with Tony because that is literally all he does the moment they meet then they work together in two fight scenes truly unforgettable.

Thor has a good scene with Loki a good scene with coulson and fury, an awesome fight with Loki which also has good dialog and of course the arguement, that's it.

The phase two plot is meaningless it never comes into play and is there just to give them something to argue over until the next action scene where it is then completely forgotten about and has no pay off it was just there to kill time.

Loki went from a very sympathetic and tragic character to a straight up cartoon villain who literally did say i will rule the world after being such an interesting character this was a massive flaw seeing him so simple he wasn't tragic or interesting anymore.

So finally we come to Black widow who has the only interesting arc in the whole movie her quest to save barton but it didn't have a lot of time, her finding about hawkeye being compromised which is a few seconds, her talk with Loki which is great her fight with Hawkeye which is awesome and their final conversation before the end, it's still not a lot and the whole arc once again by the time everything is done amounts to nothing no big character pay off for Black widow.

This is my point every character arc is done in about three scenes and only Tony and Thor actually have an emotional pay off a subplot which drives the entire second act is completely pointless and what was once a truly complex villain has become a straight up cartoon villain.

do i need to make any more points in all honesty i think i'm too generous to this movie all the build up only to get a paper thin plot simplistic character arcs and minimum emotion really on paper it sucks the character banter and action is the only reason this movie was salvaged in my opinion Ultimate Avengers a seventy minute animated movie has more plot character development and emotion a direct to dvd did everything better than it's big budget counterpart that is not okay

In truth i still like the movie but it's not the masterpiece people make it out to be anyone could've written that script the hardest part would be coming up with original quips jokes and one liners, the script was shit yet people accept it why i have no idea they can accept unimaginative half assed crap like that but a story like Age of extinction which yes i admit does have flaws but the script was not the half assed shit the avengers was they at least tried to do something interesting.

This probably isn't going anywhere people have a strong tendency here to straight up ignore facts put right in front of them, you want to disprove me put up facts counter my arguments and prove them false if you can't then you're issues aren't as valid as you or anyone thought

Once again i apologize for my blunt and somewhat rude comment but you are not proving anything and you can't say i'm wrong if you can't counter the facts i laid out in front of you, i'm sorry but unless you can prove my criticism otherwise you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

Dude. Okay. First off lets address why you're bagging on Marvel, and in that we will find out exactly why Marvel is praised by more people then the Transformers films.

You say Marvel has forgettable characters and characters which aren't as "fleshed out" as the characters in Transformers....

Yet you missed where each and every avenger gets their own movie before they team up again. It's in those movies where the main characters are "fleshed out". We get to find out:

who they are
why they're there
how they resolve the conflict.

The transformers movies, when the focus pertains to the transformers themselves, NEVER do this unless their names are Optimus and Bumblebee, and even then, their purpose is unclear at best and can be boiled down to:

One's a kid appeal yellow robot who still can't fucking talk.
One's a robot Jesus who never loses a fight.

Now if that doesn't sound like the most stupid in the "types of characters" category, Idk what does.....oh wait I forgot about The Twins.

Marvel actually at least gives their main characters enough personality and relevance so that the general audience remembers who the characters are by just showing them a simple glimpse.

NO ONE,.... I repeat......

NO ONE OUTSIDE THE TF FANDOM REMEMBERS ANY OF THE TRANSFORMERS BESIDES OPTIMUS AND BUMBLEBEE.

Which is all the proof anyone ever needs to squash whatever argument you keep trying to start on here, trying to white knight for something you like. You're not looking at this objectively. The transformers films might make a ton of money but rest assured, it's not gonna last. Domestic box office intake for the films have been on decline since DOTM. It's sad when AOE had to rely off fucking China. NO film should have to pander so hard for the sake of a dollar. That's how you know your films suck and everyone thinks so.

Now Marvel has actually earned all it's praise. None of the Marvel movies have stupid throw-away characters, senseless conversations for the sake of making people laugh, stereotype bullshit designed to make people laugh, (which is the lowest form of comedy next to poop jokes).

The TF movies are what they are. But there is absolutely no comparison to any of the Marvel movies. They have their flaws, but they're so little you can't even tell they're there. The transformers films...the same can't be said. And you can boil the flaws in the TF films all the way down to the acting. I can't possibly see Marky Mark as a dad of a teenage girl in AOE because he almost NEVER acts like a mature father. He lets Tessa walk all over him. And to add to that, there's a scene where he shows her a picture of her, him, and her mother at birth and he looks exactly the same. All they did was put a cap on him and called him "younger". I just can't buy it. And Nicola didn't really do anything for me either. And Shane and Tessa's relationship was just another shoe-horned way for Bay to want to make a better love story than Twilight.

 

Woah! Life saver! It was starting to look like I was gonna have to read Lord Trons reply! I'll cancel my day paid leave!!Nice one vic!  

 

It would be like someone complaining that Mystique wasn't flushed out in Days of Future Past when we already knew so much about Mystique from the other X-Men films in the wider franchise.

Although given the chance I'm sure Lord Tron will tell us why the X-Men franchise is inferior as well. Ha ha, I might have to name drop Mad Max Fury Road so we can hear how it's inferior to Transformers.