Wow;I guess the grass is greener - BotCon 2005 related

Discussion in 'Transformers Conventions and Get Togethers' started by Shaun_C, Oct 2, 2005.

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  1. Emperor Mengde

    Emperor Mengde Instrumentalist

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    I don't think it had anything to do with grandstanding, just something that Brian just did, out of habit, culture, or whatever. I do however agree that it surprised and even offended some people and would be best left out in the future.

    I genuinely think this was just an oversight. I mean, they did bring replacement meals for those that asked, so why would MC want to waste money by not providing a meal choice beforehand?

    Umm, I really did not find him making any really offensive jokes at anyone's expense. Sure, the little voice he did for Transformers fans could be taken as offensive, but I wasn't insulted by it. Also, the "people were stupid enough to pay me $50 and I was stupid enough to take it" comment was made after someone asked about it in, what sounded to me, a rather "snarky" way. Besides, it actually got a chuckle out of the room so I'm surprised there's been such an uproar about it.

    Actually, you could spend it any way you wanted. Dealers at tables would give you a voucher slip indicating how much money you had left (at least our dealer was), and I know I was able to trade in my chips at the slots for a coupon and then go play cards. I agree that there should have been some sort of standard chip system though. Besides, if you don't recall the entire event was for charity, which makes me a little less miffed at how it went.

    Now this I agree with. There really weren't as many dealers as I had hoped for, nor was there the variety of items I had hoped for. I understand that it was a Transformers convention, but I would have liked to have seen more stuff from other toylines, especially transforming ones (such as Brave).

    I agree that there wasn't much of a "focus" on the art contest, but that might have something to do with the lack of entries. Now we can debate over why there were so few entries, but it's hard to accuse MC of neglecting something that was almost non-existant.

    You know, I always say hope for the best but expect the worst, looks like you at least have half of that one down. I'm still hoping that most of the issues this year will be addressed next year.
     
  2. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Probably. I just don't like dickheads that try to do a personal attack ("Ooh" They'd NEVER have you as a mod here!" Oh NO. They still wanted Redemption Episode Two as an Allspark Exclusive though. Yeah. THAT ain't fucking happening either, sonny), and then make up an excuse for it.
     
  3. Razerwire

    Razerwire 99 Problems... Veteran

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    Yeah... They think their ePenis is the size of a whale's...:lol 

    I wonder if women think the same way... Do they think their eVagina is the tightest???

    WOW... I can't believe I just said that...
     
  4. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    Me neither,hence why Rotty's Richard Nixson comment kind of hurt.

    Although 1)I'm Canadian not American,thus a formers US President means nothing & 2)I don't like being called a suck-up/ass kisser.Which is what he was obviously implying

    I wonder,all those Allsparkers hated it.I wonder how many of the ones who are posting now will be there next year?
     
  5. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    Hopefully? None of them.
    Probably? All of them.
     
  6. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    And that's the shame IMO.People ruined the Con for THEMSELVES by leaving their home states/countries INTENT on hating the Convention

    Pretty useless to go to an event just to hate it.And post that hate on a board

    Incidently I e-mailed Brian with a thanks and honest critique of what I thought overall.IMO THAT'S HOW you make a difference.Not by making spiteful posts,but by open and honest communication

    The problem with Allsparkers like Trixter,Suspsy and Chip.They're not critiquing they're being nasty.And that nastiness ruins whatever message they're trying to send
     
  7. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    It happens. At least if they don;t bother next time, we won't have to put up withthem bitching about it.
    Oh no, wait. yes we will.
    Well, that's whiny dickheads for you, d00d.
    Good move IMO.
    Never bloody heard of Trixter, couldn't care less about anything Suspsy ever says, and Chip's nothing more than an irritating twat with a loud mouth. If they want to act like a bunch of whiny babies, that's up to them; I'll just sit and laugh at them.
     
  8. Beastbot X

    Beastbot X Now Healthier And More Depressing!

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    Trixter was involved in the 3H Botcon stuff, I think she ran the Art Room or summat like that. Not... gonna say much more than that, 'cause I want to keep the thread on a relatively positive tone, heh. Let's just say her comments on anything related to this convention are bass-ackwards. "I bet they won't even have any voice actors," "They're making such a big deal about Wally Burr having stuff for sale, I wonder if he'll be doing anything else there," stuff like that.

    Anyways, I must be missing something-- I've looked all over Master Collector's main pages, and can't find Brian Savage's e-mail, just a general "Contact Master Collector" e-mail address. Where are you guys finding his address?
     
  9. Vangelus

    Vangelus Long Live the New Flesh Moderator Content Contributor

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    Yeh, I personally don't see a reason to dwell on stuff like that prayer, or really much else. There are various things that bothered me, various things I enjoyed, and that'll all be in my little Botcon Review thread. :D  Otherwise, I'm just trying to focus on the positives. Though I'm still miffed about the whole Sept/Oct timeslot thing. Being an active post-secondary student, having one big event to look forward to each year offers a huge reprieve from the stress of my courses...but if it's any later than this year's, I'll have to outright structure my entire semester's schedule around attending, without completely screwing myself over academically. A lot of students actually cannot simply cut class whenever they want.

    That said, I want the focus of the subforum to temporarily be this:

    INSECT BIOLOGY. Pictorial Step-by-step on prying open Buzzclaw's head.

    *edit*

    I -think- that's the address everyone means...all my Master Collector queries were answered by Brian himself, according to the signature.
     
  10. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

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    No. By any estimates, Botcon's attendance this year was a fraction of the norm. That means there's a lot of people who might have gone and didn't, and the 'Con needs to get those people back to survive and grow. Hence, if anything, the people who weren't there's opinions are even more important than those who did. We're the people who need convincing to attend next year.

    If Fun Publications came out and said "yes, this year was very rushed, we did the best we can, but we appreciate there were issues and next year will fix those" I'd be a lot more forgiving. But it seems to be quite the opposite. Their own supporters insinuations that they were rushed have been mocked and fairly venomously denied. Fun Publications keep saying they weren't rushed, they think they're in the right, and there's very little scope for change. With that in mind, you can't exactly claim "considering the amount of time they had to plan it."

    How? Were there dozens more paint apps, and better laid out schemes? Were the remolded heads not wasted on characters who looked nearly exactly the same? These are, of course, rhetorical questions. I've seen someone who went's set already. Some are okay, but they don't look any better in the flesh than they did in pictures. The only one who actually managed some significant improvement was Ratchet with his unexpectedly remolded weapon. If FP had given him a better colour scheme he'd have been a pretty good exclusive. Why he got relegated to an "at the con" exclusive instead of being in the main set is completely beyond me.

    Great. Next time I'm in Texas for something completely unrelated to Botcon I might go there. Since I can. Since this really has nothing to do with the convention itself whatsoever.

    The panels strike me as the best thing about it, and still a pretty spectacularly ineffective way for Hasbro to show off new product (Hasbro get upset test shots don't show new toys at their best. Solution? Make people give crude pen drawings as the mass public's first impression of the new Unicron. Ingenious). Otherwise the unreleased toys panel hasn't exactly met with rave reviews from anyone (and for pretty obvious reasons), and the roundtable seems to have been a bit of a disaster (lacking many of the "excellent" explanations for things that were supposed to be forthcoming at it). The best received panels seem to have been fan run ones, and ones that could have (and in some cases have) run at other conventions.

    Again, fine if he's said there are problems, and he's looking at peoples suggestions and looking to change and grow the attitude and convention. But he seems to be going to some lengths to do the opposite.

    Honestly, it's probably quite a good job I wasn't there. I'd have made a scene at that point.

    As has already been stated in this thread, those people had to get their meal served to them, then send it back and ask for something else (and in at least one case, the staff brought out the thing they were allergic to again).

    The dealers aren't. Quite a few have reported reduced takings, most barely breaking even or worse. It wouldn't surprise me if the dealer room is even smaller next year than it was this year. There's no way your can spin this as a positive.

    Again, if they displayed an openness to learn what hadn't worked and really change it to make everyone happier, make the convention better, up the numbers and get more attendees, then that'd be great. But the very opposite seems to be the case. If you don't think Fun Publications are doing the right things, and they say they're going to keep doing the wrong things, why would you be happy for them to retain the licence? That would seem to be profoundly illogical.

    One thing that you seem to be forgetting is that the social event isn't the convention. Meeting up with people happens at the convention. But meeting up with people doesn't charge you for the privilege, and can't be counted as part of the benefit of paying so much money to get in. The convention can't be judged by the people who turn up. It has to be judged by what was there for them to do once they were there.

    It would also seem that for people who were walk ins, meeting up with people was considerably more difficult this year.

    Phazer
     
  11. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

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    am i to understand that 2005ers are all blaphemers?

    i'm gonna burn in hell.
     
  12. Dragonclaw

    Dragonclaw Comic Ink - Dublin, CA

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    I seem to remember Brian saying several times that "Things were rushed". Between that and the survey I'd say they are actively seeking input as well as trying to improve the event & club going forward.

    There were quite a few people in my area that were taken aback by the prayer...I'm willing to be that most (Not all) of the people agressively defending it are Christians...if the prayer was Muslim, Jewish or based in any other faith would they still defend it as stauntly? Would they in fact be the ones offended? Topics like religion are VERY personal and I think the prayer was probably not the best idea.

    Expense was not the only thing that kept people away. When I was checking in the receptionist was telling us that lots of people were calling in and cancelling because of the hurricaine worry...The first thing I'd do in the future is make sure that I choose locations that are well away from hurricaine prone areas since the convention is going to stay during huricaine season...

    As for feedback to Brian...just use the "contact us" link. I have spoken via e-mail to Brian several times. I found him to be very friendly and receptive if you are constructive... :) 
     
  13. Draven

    Draven Banned

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    I retract the "stop talking" statement as it has brought me personally nothing but shit and, in some cases, outright abuse. *cough*Allspark*cough*.
    I suppose I'm just getting more than a little sick of seeing the same old naysayers having a pop at every chance they get. And it doesn't change the fact that the people who went away with positive impressions keep getting shouted down by those who didn't enjoy it (it remains a fact that whinging is always louder than praise on message boards), and that those who didn't even go are shouting down people as well. Nothing will change the fact that the people who did not go aren't as qualified to speak on what happened, because they WEREN'T there. Many of them seem to be jumping on the "Bash MC bandwagon" with unbridled glee. Some have been on it since they got the license, and it's irritating as hell for those of us who actually DID enjoy the weekend, and who DID bring back good memories, to have their voices drowned out by a chorus of people who don't have ANY memories.
    We will see what they come up with next year, I suppose. But however it gets spun, the fact remains that they didn't have as much lead time as normal for a Botcon. Chats with Pete, Brian and Alvarez over the course of the weekend made that clear to me. I won't go into details, but I will say that they've been working on next year for a while now. Hopefully the feedback forms that came with each package will bear some fruit on how next year is run, and they can change the things that need changing. If not, well. I'll be having a go at them too.
    Personally, I was much more keen on the set once I had it in my hands. I don't even like the Gigatron mould very much; it's overly complex and the alt modes don't really look like anything much to me. Ricochet was nice, and Ironhide was too. Chromia is alright (not a huge fan of the mould; I have to say, however, that Flamewar looks superb). I still don't like the multiple Buzzclaws, but the paint apps were acceptable. the presentation, however, blows previous Botcon exclusives out of the water. The thing is, they need to be availabkle seperately.
    So the venue is irrelevant? I think not, d00d. To an extent, the venue defines the convention. The convention facilities there were very good (incidentally, I got the impression that the room used for the dealer room was a lot bigger than it was set up to be; I'll mention that later in thispost).
    And to the comments about "musty smells" over in the AS thread, I didn't notice anything. I also didn't have any bad experiences with the staff there. In fact, when I was stranded there on the last day (long story) they pulled out all the stops to get me to the airport. As I said, the food was good, the hotel was clean, and the staff were very helpful whenever I needed them.
    We saw photos of the GF Unicron testshot, not drawings. Whoever said that is wrong. That, or they are getting confused with Aaron & Eric doing free pen drawings for anyone who asked, of whichever characters they wanted.
    Personally, I found that panel fascinating. it wasa very interesting glimpse into some of the ideas that never made it, such as Megabolt Megatron with a totally different transformation. I knew that existed, butit was great to actually see it.
    I missed the round table, so I won't comment on it.
    Again, time will tell. The feedback form in the packages was fairly comprehensive, and hopefully it will give Brian a better idea of the people he has to cater for. If not, I'll probably spend my Botcon money on visiting my other half in Sacramento for a fortnight instead of just a week.
    And I would have goraned and probably laughed at you, to be brutally honest. I didn;t give a toss aboutthe prayer; I'm not religious, but it certainly didn't bother me the way it seems to have irked many others. All it did was slow down my meal for 10 seconds. Big whoop.
    That wasn't good at all, no. There should have been a proper menu, andthere should havebeen alternate meal choices for people who needed them for reasons of religion, conscience or health. That DOES need addressing.
    I think a lot of theproblem here was the attendance; a lot of people, as said elsewhere int his thread, cancelled or didn't go due to concerns over Rita. It's a pit, as Houuston opened again the next day and Rita missed us anyway.
    Because they should at least be given a chance to improve. If next year is a bust, so be it. Take the licence away again. Personally, I have far more good memories of this year's Botcon than I do bad ones.
    I have to say, I do feel sort of sorry for anyone who went solely for the convention; they missed out, frankly. The best part of the whole thing for me was meeting up with old friends, and making new ones. However, I do see your point.
    That I wouldn't know about, so I will not comment on it. However, I'd be interested to hear from people who did have such problems.
     
  14. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    A decision I've come to

    I put A LOT of thought into this decision

    I'm about 75% sure that BotCon '05 will be my last one :( 

    Reason,I came off of what IMO was a great time.I'm a pretty critical/up front person,so if I see a problem I'll mention it. But the numerous threads I've seen on BotCon have pretty much ALL been negative.With complaints IMO being pretty trivial/subjective

    When I go to a con & have a great time.Then see people posting stuff I feel is either false/jaded.It's my inclination to speak up.But by doing so I leave myself open to ruthless barbs & general nastiness

    Since speaking up is my natural instinct.I'm thinking maybe it's best I no longer attend the Official Cons.I'll probably try out CyberCon/TransformerCon.They're smaller but with 10 times LESS the drama,so maybe I'd enjoy it more :D 

    The only support I'll show for BotCon is paying the non-attendee price & pay for the exclusives only.As I have NO PROBLEM with the non-attendee price or his exclusives

    Now there is a 25% chance I'll change my mind next year.But if I don't go this is the reason.

    In short FAN CYNICISM ruined the Con experience for me.

    WILL SAY you guys are good as fans go :rock  Fans are supposed to be friendly and enjoy stuff,not constantly chyde about every little aspect that they don't like
     
  15. Beastbot X

    Beastbot X Now Healthier And More Depressing!

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    Aw c'mon, don't let some bozos ruin your 'Con experience, dude. Just ignore 'em.
     
  16. Optimus-JD

    Optimus-JD Team Laser Explosion!

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    Bah, the hell with them Shaun. There are plenty of us that enjoyed the hell out of ourselves. A lot of these people weren't there anyway and most likely won't be at the next one. Don't let them ruin it for you, they simply aren't worth it. Say what you want when you want, there are plenty of people that agree with you. It's easy as pie to ignore them, I do it all the time. MMm pie...
     
  17. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

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    Fun Publications (even on this very board) promised a lot of answers at the convention. They didn't deliver them. It remains a simple truth that FP already have your money Draven. They don't need to talk you into spending it. You already did. They need to convince me, and people like me, or the convention will have even less attendees next year.

    Again, if they hadn't pretty much come out and said they aren't changing many of the biggest problems, I'd be a lot more forgiving

    Yes, they do. You'll get no arguement form me there. But there are still issues. Ratchet and Ironhide used dull and inaccurate colour schemes for no apparent reason. The retooled heads were wasted on toys that where they weren't much different from the heads they replaced. The supposedly great explanation for that didn't happen (and the brilliant storyline explanation for the Chromia fiasco was both heynacked and edited out of the story, despite the fact FP must have known that when they promised it was there).

    Well, I'll maybe admit it would reflect badly on the convention to have a hotel that blew, but ultimately you're paying the hotel for their services, and that's not really anything to do with Fun Publications.

    I know the tiny minority of people at the convention saw a photo. But everyone else has seen whatever crude, half remembered details those people could remember and doodle. That's not a good way for Hasbro to give a good first impression of a toy. There's no logical reason why they can't show anything they were willing to show in public in Texas online properly, so why don't they? At the moment my first impression of the Unicron toy is that it looks quite like what my neice drew on the wall in crayon last week.

    EDIT: I should just make it plain here - I know this bit specifically is nothing to do with Fun Publications (that's why it was an aside in the original post). I just think the logic is hilariously bad.

    The Megabolt sounds cool. So does Toxitron and Motormaster - but as I understand they totalled up as about a minute and a half out of the entire presentation on luckydraws, lunchtime specials and test shots, which most people find pretty dull.

    One can hardly deny the word hasn't been positive though. And many of the promised "good explanations" for things like the makeup of the advisory panel and Chromia just weren't.

    Again, it would make sense to ask the people who didn't go.

    Honestly, I'd probably have to have been dragged out of the room. The last person to pull something like that on me might still get nosebleeds.

    I've not been able to find anyone who's cancelled, or knows anyone who cancelled. In all honesty, I think it's fairly obvious that turnout wasn't great.

    Well, like I say, I see no sign of any willingness to do that. If there is, why the heck don't FP just say so?

    Yeah, but I can meet up with the people I know both inside and outside the fandom without having a convention. For free (or travel costs). Ultimately the convention is the stuff to do what's there.

    Phazer
     
  18. The Phazer

    The Phazer Well-Known Member

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    If you care more about what people think about the convention than what you got from it then the convention can't have been that great as far as I can see.

    People are obstinately critical in the hope of improvement, and improvement never comes without criticism.

    Phazer
     
  19. neospark1

    neospark1 Well-Known Member

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    My 3 Cents ...

    OK, here goes. My thoughts on Botcon 2005.

    Did I have fun?
    Check.
    Did I have more fun than last year? Check.
    Did I have as much fun as Botcons prior to 2004?
    No.

    The convention, for a lack of better articulation, was missing the "energy" and "excitement" that many prior Botcons have had in plentiful supply. I'm not sure if it was the smaller attendance, smaller dealer room, less Japanese exclusives and oddities in the dealer room, etc.

    What was done right?

    1.
    The organization was spot-on smooth (channeling Cheetor here).

    2.
    Ratchet! :) 

    3. Extremely friendly staff (perhaps another point of contention for the lack of energy in the air was that the Botcon staff, while friendly, was virtually cluess about Transformers).

    4.
    Awesome hotel! I mean, come on! A brekafast that would cost you 30.00 in Chicago and FREE drinks in the afternoon. Woot! Going Down!!! :) 

    5.
    TFW Group Rocks! Except for Twin Twist. He sucks. :~

    What could have been done better:

    1.
    Holding a convention in a Gulf state during Hurrican season is NOT a bright move.

    2.
    Have a staff that has been versed in Transformes, even if a bit. An employee "round-table" reading "The Carwash of Doom" may have helped. :D 

    3.
    Definately agree that dinner choices are 100% necessary.

    4.
    The Prayer Dinner? Meh. Did not bother me, but also did not think it appropriate. This is not being PC, it's about respecting others., IMHO.

    No for the THING THAT REALLY PISSED OFF NEOSPARK1.

    I actually walked out of the organizers panel. I'm paraphrasing here, but Brian Savage basically put the Transformer convention priority as follows:

    1. Businessman (rock on, do it right!)
    2. Joe Fan. Kinda knows Transformers (erm, being a fan does help).
    3. Joe Convention ONLY during the summer months (OK, Transformer fan inside becoming pissed).
    4. Botcon maybe late fall after Brian figures out where to place us after his kids/family.

    All of the ABOVE NOT COOL. At the very least, the cons should be rotated every other summer.

    And there, my fellow bots, do you have it.

    Had fun, things could be better, and Brian Savage REALLY needs to read "The Carwash of Doom!"

    :rock 
     
  20. McBradders

    McBradders James Franco Club! Veteran

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    Neospark1 is on the money. Bang on.

    Shaun, you're letting some Allsparkers put you off? Come on man, you know better than that. You had a good time. You'll have a good time next year too. If you go. Which you should.
     
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