Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Starscream Gaga, Mar 25, 2015.
I'd prefer the "All of the above". Or maybe just not answer all of it.
I don't mind the 13 being incorporated into the IDW continuity. The idea of Primus creating 13 warriors to help him defeat Unicron is the stuff of legends in most fiction. Where Transformers takes it from there and makes it interesting is the stories of what happened after Unicron's defeat. How it went from that golden moment to the universe today, is what we as readers are slowly being told thru the books. I like the fact that so much time has passed that no one bot, not even Prime, has the answers and knows the whole truth.
Let's be real for a moment here, When IDW first started, none of this stuff was planned. They had maybe a rough idea of the ancient past of Cybertron, but those weren't the stories they were trying to tell at the time. So here we are, years later and they are trying to bring it all together and give us that history in a way that incorporates all of the dropped hints along the way. I think they're doing it right. They are playing with multiple legends and origins as told by different characters and factions. Much like myths and legends and how they fit with or differ from real history. It's how religions are formed.
If we take just the surface of what is known right now, we have the 13 of which we know little of other than their names and a few stories. They supposedly tie directly to Primus and led the first age of Transformers until the end of the first Civil War. Except for Alpha Trion and Nexus Prime being dead by Galvatron's hands we don't know much of where they are today or if any of them are still alive. (except Alpha Trion that is) How Optimus Prime fits into that is a big question right now as he s suppose to be the 13th Prime. Yet Galvatron, who knew and fought the Primes does not recognise him as one of the original 13. So if he isn't the 13th, who is?
Then there is Cyclonus' story about the Guiding Hand. This is considered myth by most Cybertronians but Cyclonus is very old and comes from the age after the fall of the Primes. So how would this legend fit in with the 13? Time will hopefully tell.
The Kights Of Cybertron are another presumed myth by most Cybertronians, but has some interesting facts to back their existence up. The first being the Map in the Matrix. Gone now, but it did exist. The second being we, along with Skids, have seen them. Or did we see something we are meant to assume are the Knights. That remains to be seen. I personally think that the Knights were like Buddhists and may have transcended our universe which would make it difficult to find them and would back up Metroplex's comment about them.
Speaking of the Titans, one has to wonder how they fit in to the myths as well, seeing as they have been described as being different from regular Cybertronians. Like not the same species different. They are Cybertronian, but not like the current race of bots. Who made them? What is their role? Beyond the obvious that is.
I, like I'm sure most of you, would love to see these questions answered. But I'm content at the current pace of the story and the small reveals we've been fed so far. I think it gives life to the story and makes the Transformers seem more like a real race of beings rather than just a bunch of toys.
You know, on the first chapter Prime is asked what is it being a Prime means now in Cybertron. Which is not a lot, officially.
But in Caminus, HO BOY! Optimus will need to stop being a Primus sceptic and accept it now
Will Cybertron and Caminus be under Optimus Prime's hands? Will that resulting in open wars between Starscream and Optimus? Time will find out!
I actually dig this!
Does this mean Menasor is out of comission and will be put under Wheeljack care again?
And what's up with Blackjack without faceplate?
Hell Optimus' expression in the final pages says it all, but in this situation I must refer back to one of the truest pieces of advice in human history:
"When somebody asks if you're a God, you say yes!"
As for the faceplate thing I'm just assuming he can remove it like Brainstorm and Optimus do.
I don't think Optimus is being refered as the 13th Prime, just the Living Prime. All original Thirteen are either dead (Nexus), in exile, or undercover, Like Bat- err..Alpha Trion.
In the toy, Superion torso is hollow and has panels that can open and close. This is nice shout out to that. But the back of Superion is not supposed to be empty, Silverbolt has his nosecone in there.
Woo, that might be my favorite OP moment in IDW.
This issue is just good plain fun. Starscream biting off more than he can chew with an overly simple ploy is pretty much in character, and it still would have worked except Windblade was smart enough to conceal the trump card that OP and the Matrix would be.
Superion is a fucking rock star. "Well, Superion tried."
It's rare for IDW issues to stand so well on their own. Typically, as far as action, humor, story, and character, it's like "pick two." We got all four here. I'm both satisfied and waiting for more.
And for alla youse who don't like the fact that the Camiens believe in the Covenant of Primus...
Please keep in mind that the canonical version of the Guiding Hand that was presented to us, as established very clearly in MtMtE Annual 2012, is an obscure and ancient Cybertronian religion that was not brought to the modern era until Cyclonus allowed Rewind to record his sermon. In 2012.
One place and time has the Guiding Hand. Another place and time has the Covenant with a touch of Solus-cult. We've gotten hints of many other religious traditions, like Neoprimalism, that clearly have elements of both and some whole other stuff besides. The only thing that all of the religions we've seen have in common is Primus, and there may be religions we haven't seen that do not.
This is exactly how religion in a fantasy setting should be handled, IMO. If you're writing a myth, fine. If you're world-building, well, worlds tend to have more than one tradition.
And if you're going to object to one Transformers continuity blending in elements of other continuities, I can only ask in all seriousness where have you been all this time?
I guess it would be if it were at all true in any way.
But it's not, and kind of not cool to just hand-wave away others opinions like that.
I'd rather they be OC's then just yet another rehashed concept. I prefer originality, progression, moving forward. That's how universes expand verses confusing retcons.
Also, we've heard of the Knights for years now. They're no longer "unheard of." In fact, they pre-date the Thirteen in IDW.
Only problem is, as someone pointed out, the Knights are an entire generation, not just 13 guys. They can't be the same, unless a generation, um, means 13 people.
To be fair, the entire strength of the Guiding hand was it's obscurity and the fact that it (and every other religion) wasn't provable. It was far more realistic that way.
I really hope we never get any of the religions "proven."
Additionally, this place is one that split off from Cybertron way back at an ancient time, so you'd expect it to have an ancient religion.
The Circle of Light split off later, and has it's own similarities but had largely forgotten the old Primes.
With the Functionists seeming to hold Adaptus in at least as high regard.
I don't agree.
I would expect it to also have developed and spawned it's own different and varied faiths, like Cybertron did. They didn't split off and then just pause their society for millions of years.
Was anyone else really disappointed by the lack of a "My name is Windblade" intro?
In all seriousness, I'm not entirely sure why the title is Transformers: Windblade given how little of it actually focuses on her. I'm not sure on a better alternate title, but I guess that is a small problem in the grand scheme of things.
This issue hit a lot of high notes, and I'm I loved the art. I really hope Sarah Stone goes to Botcon this year so I can throw a bunch of money at her for a commission.
If you are talking about the scene at the end of Punishment, she is only asking Optimus what he is holding because he has his back to her. He responds "It had a few names, but I always called it the Matrix of Leadership." To which she replies, "I heard it broke." So it would appear that up until this point she wasn't even aware that part of it was still around, but that isn't quite the same thing as not knowing what it is.
I think Optimus's ignorance in response to Windblade's statement isn't about the Matrix being the hilt of/connected to the Star Saber, but that the colony of Caminus is extremely religious and consist of Prime worshipers.
I can see it now.... After encountering Optimus half the population of Caminus runs out to get faceplates as Primus apotheosis sweeps through the colony.
Well, On Cybertron the only remaining membe rof the Thirteen(Alpha Trion) decided to take the role of a teacher, one who would stand back amd watch as history moved on. Theres nothing saying Solus wasn't like "Hey I'm here, I'm a Prime, I'm in charge/ a god." With her strong influence she would make an impact on Caminus, The entire planet was built around her.
That is true.
Would be a good story thread, too.
But in both instances, it's the first time all of their minds have combined with the new members. We won't know what the individual members experienced while combined until they disassemble.
Maybe the double-agents have their true intentions behind a mental barrier/encryption?
In the Aligned continuity, Optimus Prime is the 13th Prime. I don't think he is the 13th in the IDW continuity which leads to my pondering as to who the 13th Prime would be since it's obviously not Optimus.
This issue makes me wonder about what constitutes a Prime. To the best of my knowledge, there have been only two true primes (Nova and Optimus) after the 13?. Even when it comes to Nova i feel he may not have been a True prime since Alpha Trion might have just handed the Matrix over to him (you know the right person for the right job at the right time) as a means to an end. In addition to this, we know very well that the 13 did exist but were not super natural beings as Camiens or other cybertronians believe. What set them apart I believe was the technology that they possessed (it appears as if every Prime had some crazy artifact).
What i rather enjoy and despise is the existence of 2 Characters who can very well validate or in validate all of these facts: Galvatron and Alpha Trion. It is rather difficult to believe that all the time Cyclonus spent with Galvatron that the topic of religion never came up.
Cyclonus mentions that the Knights left Cybertron were the first generation to inherit the gifts of the guiding hand (possibly the 13?) to spread peace and happiness however actual events shown in Not-RID suggests that they left because Galvatron was basically killing them and their followers by the droves.
Plus on a side note Windblade mentions that all of the Camiens know the names of the 13 by heart so I'm assuming Optimus is not one of them but a descendant of the line of Primes.
Lastly as I had stated before, this entire 13 Primes civil war ending with Nova uniting the clans kinda reminds me (and i say this very loosely) of the 13 tribes of Israel mentioned in the Old Testament.
I don't get where people are getting the idea that the Thirteen aren't holy in any way. I mean, did I miss something? I haven't read the last few issues of NOT-RID but I've kept up with their TFWIKI entries. I mean, I just find it hard to believe. Are you saying they aren't "Gods", I can argee to that. But I still feel that their story is very much similar to what we saw in The Covenant of Primus. That might just be me though.
I'm not saying they paused it, of course it developed. I'm saying it's more close to the root than the modern.
There is a strong tendency for colonies to change less than their original cultures. US English is more similar to English from a couple centuries ago than modern English is- and of course it held on to the religious roots more. Icelandic language more resembled old Norwegian than modern Norwegian does (which now resembles Danish), and their naming conventions and several other aspects are also more archaic. Most of the old norse sagas were found in Iceland, not other norse countries. Etc..
A smaller society shifts less, and often holds on to the old harder. They still change in their own ways, what Caminus has now is no doubt massively different than when they left, roles like City Speaker probably developed over time, but the ties to the old are there.
Especially, well, as they've had a whole caste of people talking to their Titan, while until Metroplex was rediscovered, Cybertron hadn't seen a Titan in millions of years.
There are religions based on them, but when we see a flashback, they are bots of alloy and energon, like any other, as Galvatron proves with his axe.
Remember, Optimus Prime is arguably holy, and Nova, and such. They're, holy in that sense, but not in the sense they often are in other continuities. They aren't the First who hold mystic significance to Primus.
They're important tribe leaders, with sometimes access to some exceptional artifacts, but a lot of their legend either game with time, or in the case of 'Only a Prime can Kill a Prime,' was proven false. They're big and important bots, but by the looks of it no more so than a modern Prime.
Because they haven't really been presented as holy at all. They were just bots who were sometimes at odds with each other as they led their respective tribes, and they came long after Primus--as well as the Knights of Cybertron, for that matter. I'm pretty sure if Alpha Trion knew Primus, Optimus would be asking him a lot more questions. Tarn even makes a comment in the recent MTMTE preview that makes it sound further like the 13 aren't regarded as holy figures whatsoever.
Also, even the one myth about the 13 on Cybertron, that no one could kill them except one of their own, was disproven when Galvatron slew Nexus.
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