Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Leather Elbows, Feb 25, 2012.
I bet I'm going to get banned from this site because of this thread. Because everybody hates me now
OP? Your referring to me aren't you? Why are you always in the movie thread anyway?
Apparently you've never seen Beast Wars. Or Animated. And apparently you're watching Prime just to find things to complain about. I personally believe Prime is a very well-told Transformers story, one that can be appreciated by both children and adults. Not every episode is a home run, but I'd say the worst of season 1 was at least a double.
There are also plenty of great stories in Transformers comics. I personally loved "All Hail Megatron" (I know some can't stand it, but I thought the premise was fantastic) as well as "Last Stand of the Wreckers". Many older fans have fond memories of reading the Marvel and Marvel UK stories.
And why, exactly, would you think Unicron being the Earth's core ruined the story? It was a very bold move, script-wise, and a direction that almost no one thought the writers would go. It was more of a "wouldn't-it-be-cool-if...." sort of thing. I applaud the writers for getting Unicron out of the way, and for pulling it off as well as they did. My favorite part of those episodes was hearing John Noble scream "PARASITES!!!" Prime has done a great job of casting its voice actors, and getting John Noble to play Unicron was nothing short of EPIC.
If you can accept an animated show about giant robots from another planet that transform into vehicles and are generally hidden from human knowledge, surely it's no great leap to accept the presence of an alien form at the core of the planet? And how do you know he isn't surrounded by magma at the center? Certainly a deific being such as Unicron would be resistant to pressures and temperatures that would vaporize any other Cybertronian.
yes i agree...
we know Unicron is prime evil and Primus is prime good. out of this mythology, a living organisms that inhabit Cybertron, living energon-based robotic organisms, who evolved to change their shapes lived peacefully and harmoniously in their homeworld, until they became divided because of differences in how they want to see Cybertron, then they later got separated by factions, namely Autobots and Decepticons and waged a brutal civil war for control of the planet and its resources... That's it. keep it that way.
Unless it will be an epic, larger-than-life, larger-than-the-universe, convincing story involving Primus and Unicron in a live action movie that won't look as lame as finding out that the Earth or the Moon is really Unicron or Primus is really Cybertron, i really don't need anyone to re-tell me the story of Unicron and Primus. we already know what they were about. they represent good and evil. that should be it.
You're suggesting THIS is ridiculous... while its taking place in a series about robotic aliens from Cybertron who can scan Earth vehicles and randomly change between a vehicle form and a humanoid form?
Uh stop being overdramatic there guy. Nobody hates you, people are just pointing out that what you're saying makes little sense. You don't get banned for having an opinion, no matter how strongly people agree or disagree.
Are you in any way implying that the movies didn't have that?
But there is a problem here - by their very premise in the Transformers Universe these themes are handeled unrealisticly and are not in any way comparable in the slightest to anything resembling real life. Every storyline and charachter is almost entirely defined by this war which can't be related to. With their simplistic aproach they can't be anything else than light children's entertainment.
Now, those are things you can build a story around, but as I said the franchise is defined by just the ongoing war between a faction which is pure evil and a faction that stands for good.
Making Unicron the Earth's core is an artistic choice about the setting, not a plot hole. It's the same as making the Earth hollow (Journey to the Center of the Earth) or suggesting that humans evolved a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away (Star Wars). It's a conceit that enables the story they want to tell.
The fact that science marches on does not deny fiction writers the ability to fill in gaps, rewrite facts, or make things up from scratch. If it was intended to be non-fiction or hard science fiction, and the story flew in the face of established facts or plausible science, then it would be a flaw, but still not a plot hole.
A plot hole occurs when the story handles its own events inconsistently. A pretty common but understandable example is in the Wrath of Kahn. When Captain Tyrell and Chekov are trapped in the Botany Bay shelter, Kahn "remembers" Chekov, and even says "I never forget a face...". This despite the fact that Chekov didn't appear until the second season. It's plausible that Chekov could have been there just off screen during "Space Seed". In fact, Walter Koeing suggests "Chekov accidentally made Khan wait an uncomfortable amount of time to use the bathroom", but it's never established on screen. The ire which Kahn holds towards Chekov would seem strange to someone who watched Space Seed and then the Wrath of Kahn immediately after. It would seem like the writers just forgot that Chekov wasn't there (which they did). That's a plot hole, though in this case it can be explained away and doesn't derail the entire story.
A good story can be made from even the most basic and simple of premises all the way to the most crazy. It all comes down to the talent involved in the project.
I never have and never will buy into the idea that it's impossible to get a solid story out of Transformers. I think there examples out there of solid stories.
Nobody said there isn't magma. Also, no one has said how big Unicron is. Only that he was the first celestial body whose gravitational pull started pulling together the space debris and whatnot that eventually became the Earth.
And guess what? That's pretty much how the Earth and all other planets are believed to have been formed in real life, too. Except instead of Unicron, everything was pulled towards one rock or chunk of space stuff that happened to be bigger than the others in the vicinity.
It's not a plot hole. It's perfectly believable.
Ever heard of something called the "Inner core"?
I guess it comes down to how a team of story tellers handle the concepts of war or good and evil.
Plenty of human wars to use a template for a war with a sci fi setting. Sadly too many human wars really. So you have everything from conflicts where there was some code of honor to the fighting down to wars of extermination in human history.
While we aren't lucky enough to always have clearly defined good guys and bad guys every once in a while you do get real world examples of things like evil with groups like the Nazis. Some times basically good people get pulled into conflicts with the hope of achieving a greater good.
You've obviously never watched Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Animated, Masterforce or Prime; and you obviously haven't read Last Stand of the Wreckers, Target 2006, Time Wars, and the two new ongoings from IDW.
I take it you haven't watched TFA, then.
I am implying what they have had, for the most part, has been insufficient.
Have you watched the season finale of Prime,Stronger Faster, Partners, and the latest episodes ?
Have you seen the second season of Beast Wars ?
Have you seen season 3 of Animated ?
Have you read any of the comics ?
HAVE YOU GODDAMIT HAVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a definite possibility of a good, fresh and pure Transformers story. Just no one has thought of one yet.
Until then, I agree with you.
Hmph, I couldn't care less about the story.
I know I'm not the only one who's just there for bad ass battles and giant robots.
Transformers stories aren't any stranger than Spider Man, BatMan, or Captain America comics. And they all made good movies.
Separate names with a comma.