I think a good gut feeling got her a comic mini series and a role in the ongoing tv show. I think the character succeeding and resonating in those roles is why we're still seeing her. Again, I don't think the stock holders and corporate executives have as much personally invested in Windblade as a character as the designers, writers, and artists do. And the former can, and will, easily overrule the latter.

Because the Machinema series was trying to use the IDW Combiner Wars event as a jumping-off point for its own story. The Combiner Wars event took place in the pages of exRiD and Windblade's miniseries. Meaning that Windblade was a major player in the IDW CW event. Which meant she was going to be a major player in the web show, which used the comics as a starting point.
Notice how Rodimus was also present, despite only being represented in the CW toyline with a repaint of a Scout class figure? Or how the Mistress of the Flame was used too, despite not having a toy at all? It's because both Rodimus and the MotF have prominent roles in the comic series Machinema was using as source material. Same with Windblade.

Alternatively, Hasbro made a deal about the fan created character, and saw that her initial fictional appearances were positively received. So they decided to keep using her because that's what you do when you're running a successful media franchise. You use what's popular.

 

I'm fine with IDW and RiD Windblade. It's just the CW version that gets to me. I'm fine with most personality changes in adaptions, but that was just too far.

 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

How are minor color differences and slight difference in face sculpt even comparable to how Drift's toy doesn't transform exactly like he did in the comics? In the comics, the car's spoiler became his heels. On the toy, the spoiler folds up behind the knees.

Then why even tease Animated if the whole intention was it to be the intended inferior option? Like, if you were given a choice between two things, but instead of the choice you preferred, you instead got the other one, are you seriously saying having a fast one pulled on you is okay?

They had plenty of time to throw together complete bullshit for Erector's HoF video, so yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting.

Do you have any proof of this?

Wait, so you're dismissive of the whole RG1/Animated incident even though it is precisely the kind of thing you keep saying Hasbro totally wouldn't do behind the back of the fandom?

Like choose the all-important theme for the final design without telling the fans?

Again, Erector HoF video completely proves otherwise.

But then at least it would have been the fan's decision, and not another Japanese based new character after Drift without at least even the illusion of choice to go with it.

...so you're saying the actual appearance of the toy looking like a female Autobot Thrust with a sword and warrior makeup is a minor thing?

Of the four mainline G1 combiners, only Menasor did not use that mold whatsoever. It's the only mold that was reused with a minor head retool for Blades.

The vitriol over AB replacing Slingshot continues to this day.

And you keep trying to divert things away from actually discussing windblade and more on this fan vote thing.

Do you know the story behind why HA Soundwave barely ever saw retail release during DOTM?

I'm finding it hard to believe you want to keep making the fan vote bit, which was only part of my stated reasoning why I personally don't like Windblade because she seems way too forced into everything, into the active thread topic discussion.

So just anybody could have ended up being the Cityspeaker of Caminus or whatever important key role Windblade had out of the gate?

So if you were allowed to design the car of your dreams, except how it actually looked, you'd be okay with that?

Describe Drift.

Then describe Windblade.

And yet at the same time part of your argument is that the end result was predictable without factoring in that aspect of kids being involved.

Or, y'know, the fact Victorion was a very expensive online-only product that kids weren't going to be able to get under normal circumstances and almost explicitly was a collector-only item?

You seem to care very much about my opinion in the same regard.

And how are those really any different than loose guidelines? If 'Autobot' just meant 'good guy' then by those same definitions you could say Armada Starscream was a girl and it's the same result given he was with the 'Bots for a while in the cartoon.

Only as far as the original goes - doesn't apply to the RID or CW versions does it?

At no point have I even said my opinion decides as much. But by the same token neither does yours.

Oh, yeah, she's had a presence in the SDCC exclusive sets two years running. Completely forgot about that but just another example of how she's being forced into every goddamn thing Hasbro puts out short of the films - and even there it's only a matter of time before Windblade in the exact same look shows up there, too.

So Windblade is now somehow more important than anything to do with an extended continuation of the same universe now? Is she the fourteenth member of the Thirteen now or something?

I never once said Bumblebee didn't have the same problems - Windblade has been called the new Bumblebee for being just as overused across the entire franch...
Wait, does this mean Optimus is going to go completely mental on Windblade in the next film? 

 

I agree with Focksbot's point on TAAO. I read that comic and don't read it for Windblade; hell, I barely remember her being in it, though maybe she's shined more in the latest issue which I haven't picked up yet. I read it for the Combaticons and Ironhide, not Windblade. TAAO's success or failure shouldn't considered indicative of Windblade's popularity when it's an ensemble cast and she's just one of many characters.

 

Note, the 'looks and quacks like a duck' explanation: She's popular.

Considering it's not an app-based national fan vote and was a much smaller affair and 100% informal? And in this case the options were publicly more popular than the others too? And they had absolutely no reason to favor any specific result here?

And you're trying to use it to justify "All hasbro polls must be rigged (even when there's no reason for rigging)"?

I'm certainly dismissive of your evidence-less conjecture based on someone asking a crowd vs an official promotion.

Note- red herring. You've decided this is all-important, and not 'color scheme (where red and black was selected and may have been what made them decide to do that styling),' 'personality', 'abilities,' 'alt mode,' 'faction,' etc..

Yes, not every aspect of her was up for vote. Only, like, 80% of her. That doesn't justify your conspiracy theory.

Any fanvote character would've gotten an important role of some kind out the gate. So, yes, why do you find it weird that characters can get important roles?

Note that her being something like a cityspeaker *was* part of the vote- "telepath" role over combat medic, bodyguard, recon, and close combat specialist.

Red herring. Being fanvoted in most aspects =/= every single aspect must be fanvoted.

If I'm ordering a car, and I get to pick the color scheme and model and features but not the detailing... that doesn't mean I didn't have a say in the car.

"Giant robots who transform into vehicles."


You're trying to angle for something, but mostly you seem to throw around red herrings and minor issues and act like it's proof that the whole thing is rigged despite no direct evidence that the explanation is anything other than, "They did what the fans voted, and she's popular."

Nope, not sure why you think so.

My argument is she has a lot of aspects widely popular in the fandom- jets are popular pretty much across the board. Ditto swords. Ditto autobots, red color schemes, 'valiant' personality types (the option picked), etc..

Gasp of shock, you mean that the general transformers app which is used for stuff like 'playing games based on the movie' in addition to fanvotes, may have had people vote who didn't intend to buy it? And may have had other concerns and interests like what the character will appear like in comics and other media?

I voted. I had no intention to buy it because I don't have room for combiner toys around.

You're making the assumption that one part of the fandom dictates the whole thing, but we know who voted- 'Anyone with the app'. Which, obviously, goes well beyond the toy collector crowd.

Because you and others keep bringing it up as if we're supposed to nod along with your conspiracy theories and so on.

You don't like a character. We get it, that's fine. The amount of production you put into not liking a character is getting over-the-top.

It's not like your Windblade conspiracy theories are the only hasbro conspiracy theories out there, and most of them are pretty ridiculous.

They are loose guidelines. People voted on a number of loose aspects, then they filled in the rest.

Not sure what point you think you're trying to make.

Yea, guess those ones had to follow off of her being a popular comics character with a popular-if-crappy toy (Yes, the toy sold well despite being not great).

Hm, RiD was early enough it might've still had some fanvote hype... but by that point they could be pretty sure they had a character who resonated.

Which brings us around to the facts. My opinion doesn't decide whether or not she's popular- stuff like sales and reception do. And all of those line up the simpliest, most straightforward explanation... she's popular.

Her being popular is just easier than any other explanation.


You and others are saying she's unpopular, and you specifically are coming up with conspiracy theories on how she didn't really win the fanvote and etc. on why she's not popular. The data doesn't

Ah yea, 'forced'. It can't possibly be anything to do with... her being popular, and people wanting more toys of her ('cause unlike a longrunning character, there aren't a lot).

Strawman.

No, all it takes for cross-media character stuff to get brought over is for a character to be popular and for the execs to think crossover of that character to bring some fans over.

Remember, that's how Bulkhead got into Prime, he was originally going to have a different name until they were, "Hey, Animated Bulkhead was popular."

Rather the point- Bumblebee has the problem because he's popular, not because of a conspiracy.

Windblade has the same type of problem to a lesser extent... why is it so hard to believe that it's for the same reason of being a currently popular character?

The conspiracy theories are unnecessary.

 

IDW Windblade is actually a pretty decent character. She comes from a pretty religious society long separated from the Cybertronian War, and gets jaded when forced to play the role of politician. It's not a role she wanted or was fully prepared for. Prime didn't match up with her peoples' legends. Starscream's a nut she has to work with/around. Her bodyguard went rogue, killed several Cybertronians, and she was forced to keep silent and compromise her integrity.

That's how I see it. Windblade is an example of how quickly a bot can get lost in the petty squabbles of politics, especially after a civil war that lasted millions of years and devastated worlds. She's trying to keep the peace, but hell, nobody's been able to do that on Cybertron. I see depth there. I see flaws because circumstances forced moral compromises.

I have not seen a single episode of RiD, so I can't comment on that.

I watched the first couple episodes of CW, and decided that was more than enough for me.

 

I read that mini, I saw that the comic was going for that, but the execution was flat out terrible. That's for another thread, though.
TAAO was a god send in comparison to that mini.

 

Opinions vary- Critical reception of
the time was positive, I saw a lot of people love it, and like the sales indicated, it actually held readers better than most TF minis.

It didn't work for you, but it did work for tons of other people. Especially character wise, I feel.

 

Except it looks more like a chicken, but you're trying to sell it as a duck because they both have feathers and beaks.
What I'm saying is that you look ludicrous pushing that theory until you have proof.

You can go back and look at how the vote played out. Gender wasn't an option at first. It was only added after enough fans pestered Hasbro. If Windblade was designed beforehand and only meant to be rolled out after a faux fan vote then gender would have been available as an option from the start.

Not really. A completely different team was in charge of the Transformers brand when Erector's HoF video was created. And hey, most of that team was let go or reassigned because they were basically doing what they wanted with little regard for Hasbro's money.

I'm saying we should break down Windblade's visual aesthetics.
Jet.
Red and black colour scheme.
Autobot.
Sword as the primary weapon.
Female.
Japanese aesthetics.

5/6ths of what Windblade is aesthetically came from vans voting on what they wanted. The Japanese aesthetic was chosen by Hasbro over two other options. And yes, obviously they should have thrown "Japanese warrior/medieval knight/Roman gladiator" to a vote, but over 80% of the character design was already dictated by fan votes at that point. They probably had their own research/reasoning and made the call to go with the Japanese look itself, because at that point there were probably deadlines they had to meet and they didn't have time for another round of fan votes after the lengthy rounds that were already held.

Defensor- Blades was a part of the G1 team. Using the helicopter mould made sense.
Bruticus- Vortex was a part of the G1 team. Using the helicopter mould made sense.
The only one where you could say this might have been a problem was with Superion but...

There you go, presenting your opinion as undeniable fact again. Yes, there was disappointment over AB replacing Slingshot, but comparing it to "vitriol"? Please.
I remember the BotCon 2007 set, back when that was the only way to get a complete Seeker collection for your Classics shelf. That was vitriol. I remember when Hasbro released the original movie cast's figures with premium paint jobs, forcing a lot of people to buy the same figures twice. That caused vitriol. AB replacing Slingshot on an otherwise G1-faithful Superion update? That had some people miffed.
And the amount of people being miffed has dwindled ever since Hasbro made their version of Slingshot pretty easy to get a hold of. I think it's fair to say that anyone who wants Slingshot in place of AB has already gotten him, and got him easily enough at a fair price.

I'm not diverting anything. I'm simply talking about what I want to talk about. You don't like how Windblade's been used in fiction. I disagree. Ok. Where else is there to go?
I'm talking about the fan vote because I find your assertion that it was fake and a cover to roll out Windblade ridiculous.

If you don't want to talk about it anymore? Ok fine. We'll only talk about it again if you're able to provide proof that it was fake. The onus has always been on you to provide evidence for your claims. You've yet to do that. We'll only talk about it again if you're able to.

So here's a list of the top 300 comic titles sold in April of 2014.

Top 300 Comics Actual--April 2014

The highest selling Transformers title of that year was Transformers: Winblade #1, with 9,855 copies sold. The second highest selling Transformers was the much more established and critically acclaimed More than Meets the Eye, whose issue #28 sold 9,667 copies.
That's not Til All are One. That's Windblade. Her name's in the title. People bought it for her.
Since that first issue? Windblade's eponymous comic miniseries stayed steady with its two established sister titles.

 

Also, to bring up critical reception, Windblade's first series collected is at a very solid 4.05 at Goodreads (Context: That's below MtMtE which is usually 4.4-4.5 stars, above exRiD which tends to hover in the 3.8-4 range, above Sins of the Wreckers or Empire of Stone).

Distant Stars, also under the title Windblade, 4.0 stars.

Here's a review of the combiner wars Windblade #1 from WeeklyComicBookReview, which refers to the first mini as a 'rousing success' and cites the problems with the second one as largely crossover related.

Big Glasgow Comic review, "This is a great book that features some high octane action along with a fun twists along the way, there is not much in the way of character development but we do get to see inside Windblade’s head for the duration and perhaps know her a little better from the experience. The art is well defined, colourful and an absolute joy to look at, every Transformer looks unique and as memorable as they ever have. A fine mini series but instantly more enjoyable if read along with the Robots in Disguise ongoing series as it shares many of the same characters."

Jaydot Sloane at TMS, a transformers newbie comic reviewer.

Chris Sims of Comic Alliance as part of his 'read everything after The Death of Optimus Prime in order binge', "It might not be the story that I was expecting, but it’s a solid one that does a whole lot of character work." and specifically noting, "Windblade – If I could only pick one to be my first Transformer, I’m glad I got the Cybertronian equivalent of Jim Rockford."



Some of you may have the opinion that the general, wide opinion of the early Windblade mini was it was flawed, bad, or at least mix. But nah, the comic reviewers pretty enthusiastically gave it two thumbs up, and often specifically citing Windblade's personality work as a reason why.

Which is why I roll my eyes about any 'no personality' comments. That's literally one of the things the pro comic community gushed over it on, and why I really view a lot of these complaints as her just not being the type of character these few personally like combined with way too much extrapolation/projection as that as a trend.

Critically, while not MtMtE heights, it's quite solidly well reviewed, both the titles and Windblade herself as a character. Something the number sales and the strong holds on Windblade's titles back up (it should be noted that all the current IDW transformers books have pretty good holds, IDW TF beats normal attrition in general, so for WB to be above others is quite good indeed).

 

Really make you wonder how much different things would be had they went with that knight design they were originally considering for Windblade?

 

I don't think anything would change. It's not like her Japanese aesthetic has impacted her character in any way. I would have preferred the knight look, and it's funny they didn't go in that direction given the direction the franchise has been heading in, but it's just one aspect of her. One of the least important aspects, as it doesn't impact who the character is in any way.

 

I don't mind Windblade but I get why she receives the hate she does.

I like her alright enough in the comics though she really doesn't have much of a personality for being such a character with such "high exposure".

I've never seen the RiD cartoon and don't have plans to anytime soon so I can't comment on her there.

The Combiner Wars cartoon does not exist. It. Doesn't. Exist.

 

You're preaching to the indifferent, man. I don't care about how popular or not popular Windblade is overall, but Focksbot's statements about measuring popularity and TAAO were on point, and I was confirming them anecdotally.

But now that you mention it, the same logic applies to all the Windblade series. I read it initially for my sweet children Prowl and Swindle, not Windblade. It's erronous and baseless to claim people bought it for her because of the title. It could have been titled "Dog****" and I would have read it. For my babies  

 

I'm wondering if Windblade's Japanese Warrior aethestic was an attempt to make an obviously female character (without even Arcee's history) more pallettable on the shelves. It's not like any fiction has acknowledged it beyond the Sailor Moon transformation parody in RiD.

Personally I preferred the Gladiator and Knight versions better, but what's done is done.

 

That's fair enough.

I can't give you that though. I'll grant people not necessarily reading TAAO for Windblade, but you're wrong to say it's baseless to assume people bought a comic called "Windblade" for Windblade. Maybe you didn't, but it's ridiculous to suggest that the majority of people who bought the title, or even a sizable minority, did so with no interest in the eponymous character.

If you just don't care how popular or unpopular Windblade is? Alright, cool. Just don't try to tell me a significant amount of people bought a title focused on one character with little regard for them.
Or to use some colourful language? Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining  

 

The Windblade hate is pretty silly. Of course Hasbro wants to push her. She was part of their fan built bot campaign.

 

True that any series is going to have some people follow it for other characters, but generally the ones headlining are prime attractors- especially ones in the title. Because that's what title roles are for. It's erroneous and baseless to claim that being the titular and main character isn't going to be a bigger factor than who-also-appears. Heck, note again the bundle of reviews I posted, who often name Windblade the character as a reason they're recommending the book. If reviewers are naming someone a selling point, that's a sign.

Quite. And then her book got good reviews and good sales.

I mean, everyone's been annoyed at companies pushing this or that at what they want at some point, but it's a rather normal mundane complaint that happens for direct and obvious reasons, and some of the reactions to it are overblown.

 

To an extent I agree. I think people hating it without reasons is silly. I don't have a problem with people disliking the character because they're not fond of the stories she's been in. Personally, I was one of those folks that was really for her at first, but I just didn't like anything she was appearing in, so I slowly went from really liking the character to really not being a fan. I've never liked her design. Kabuki/geisha in a black swim-suit and wings does not a good design make.

I can pretty much say the same thing for Drift. Light on character development, big push because "cool" = me hating the character. It wasn't until MTMTE came along that I started to have some love for Drift.

 

Of course, Windblade has way more development than pre MTM Drift