Why the All Hail Megatron hate?

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by primushatesyou, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. primushatesyou

    primushatesyou Crusadercon

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    Hey, so it seems that many people dislike AHM, why is that? It is one of my favorite series from IDW, but I also have't read the ations and a bunch of pre-AHM stories, and I see that most of the hate comes from the fact that it completely forgot about what happened before. Is that what the hate is for? Or is there another reason?
     
  2. Jalaguy

    Jalaguy has no known physical weaknesses

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    Beyond throwing most of Furman's worldbuilding out the window, AHM has really poor pacing, if you ask me. The initial part feels way too drawn out, whilst some of the later stuff feels rushed, like Prime's instant recovery.

    It has its moments, though. I'll always love the gag with Cliffjumper and the console light. It's certainly not plain bad in the same way that Costa's ongoing was.
     
  3. soundwaverulls

    soundwaverulls Taking a break

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    I love All Hail Megatron. I like it more than anything James Roberts has written (not that I dislike his work). However, I will admit, it's not particularly well written.

    On top of disregarding what Furman set up, the series sucks Megatron's crotch trigger waaaaayyy too much, and when he's involved, the series was really over the top. Meanwhile, on the Autobot side of things, entire issues are dedicated to them just moping on Cybertorn, and it still takes them until the second volume to explain how they were defeated, and it ends up being in a way that makes little sense. Then, despite there being no hope for Optimus' survival, he magically pulls through because... His plot armour heals him?

    That said, I really enjoy this series. It entertains me, more than anything else IDW's written. Tho reading it after it ended, and buying the whole series, and reading it in chunks, likely helped me not notice pacing issues (again, entire issues about 'Bots moping).

    This series was released in 2008, when we had Decepticons beating the snot out of Autobots in TFA and the first Bayformers film. However since then, things have gone way down hill. Because of this, I enjoy AHM's sucking up to Megatron a lot more than I likely would have when it was first released.

    I did read AHM before I read anything Furman wrote, so I didn't know what had been left out. After reading Furman's work, however, it turns out knowing that AHM was coming was the only thing that kept me reading. Furmans work was mediocre at best, and absolutely boring.
     
  4. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    It threw what had gone on in IDW before that out of the window for a full-on 'G1 for adults' fanwank, that was horribly paced at that. Even if the -ation series before that had not existed, I still would have thought AHM wasn't that good.

    The rumor is (is it still really a rumor at this point?) that AHM was never meant to be a continuation of IDW's then-current run, but a standalone story/reboot..but they then tied it all together anyway.

    I hate it because it's dumb, replaces the much smarter and more interesting pre-AHM Furman stories with something that's less good/cool (think about it, Furman has a way of delivering pretty blunt material, and his stuff was genuinely smart compared to AHM).


    I also think it's extremely ironic the writer has gone on record to say he hates the Michael Bay Transformers movies, then created All Hail Megatron which has the exact same moronic flaws (bad pacing, blunt characterization, not knowing what the hell to do with the human characters, over the top kill violence) but replaces the Bay bots with G1 bots.



    But you know..it's all about perspective. I'm sure AHM was the perfect jump on point for a lot of people who did already like G1 Transformers but had never read a Transformers comic before. And I do like the first Drift mini-series and the Mars Attacks crossover from the same writer.
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Pretty much.

    It also has a lot of instances of "imagery before rationale." It's clear that there were more than a few parts in this story that existed solely to produce 80's Decepticon fan-wankery. All the 'Cons are conspicuously in 80's alt mode bodies defying any and all logic, there's inumerable instances of the Decepticons just running a rampage with (admittedly great-quality) art that seems more like a poster a 'Con fan would want in their room versus a vehicle for delivering a cohesive narrative. Lots of very.... I don't want to say anime-esque, but unconventional character abilities and portrayals that again forego logic for the sake of having Megatron stop Devastator's punch, or Frenzy being a screaming psychotic animal. Also the Matrix was suddenly important for no good reason.

    The attitude behind it was also a big factor, something not clear when just reading it. It operated on the assumption that IDW needed fixing, which it kinda did. Furman had over-written the continuity for how relatively young it was. There were more than a few blemishes. But rather than patching the cracks and buffing the dents, AHM threw out as much as I think it was capable of in order to start "fresh." Instead what we got was a layman's idea of "edgy" and "dark" and wantant violence and heroes broken and destruction porn for issues and issues, which I remind equates to months to readers exposed to just souless, tryhard dreck. It felt like a 15 year old who just found a youtube MV of G1 sunbow Decepticons set to "Let The Bodies Hit The Floor" by Disturbed picked up a pen. At the time I personally felt it was IDW at it's utter worse. And it still ranks down there even to this day.

    It was painful. And like there's worse comics out there, but there's bad and then there's painful to read. A mix of disgust over the dour subject matter, disdain over the continuity wrecking, just plain frustration over the bad writing, and embarrassment over how utterly hard they tried to appeal to a crowd that absolutely existed, and was fairly prelevant not long before it came around. It's... ack, it's just not a pleasant memory.
     
  6. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    Every 15 year old knows that song is by Drowning Pool, Split!
    (But I laughed, because yes, that's exactly the mindset AHM makes me think of :lol  ...sorry Shane!)
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Is it really?

    *search*

    WTF I could've sworn it was Disturbed... or maybe I'm thinking of Down With The Sickness.





    Those are like the two death metal songs I know.
     
  8. Mort

    Mort Apostate

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    It didn't *completely* forget what happened before. It's in the same universe; it didn't outright contradict the -ations on any point. But it was a soft reboot and Furman had built up steam and most people were liking what he was doing. Imagine MTMTE being called off for ANY reason. I wouldn't want to be whoever followed.

    Schmidt (& Costa) committed far worse offences against continuity. From reinventing characters because whatever to blatant mistakes.

    Then many had issues with the pacing in AHM. I was happy with it, but the payoff was somewhat... alright. Same can be said of MTMTE, but it doesn't detract from the experience. Difference being AHM was a limited, self contained, series.

    And last, but not least, people took a dislike to Shane and, as a consequence, Drift. They hated Drift with a passion. He was fan character 101 and he had been brought it by an unknown who what was he even. Shane wasn't Furman and he wasn't Roberts. How dare he.

    You'll find on the whole that once you tone down the blanket hate, there are bits some people like more than others and vice versa. I liked AHM and found the Drift mini dead boring for example, so go figure.
     
  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    It did quite a bit, actually. Sunstreaker pleading against becoming a Headmaster, Sunstreaker supposedly having knowledge enough to sabotage all Autobot outposts (which directly contradicted the subplot of the Headmasters inadvertantly picking the Autobot with the least amount of knowledge on their operations) the Matrix being the reason for the war, Skywatch and the Machination being the same thing, the Autobots lacking any kind of multi-layered command structure to prevent against total defeat at the loss of one leader, Verity and Jimmy just vanishing, all the pointless redesigns...
     
  10. Mort

    Mort Apostate

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    I'll only comment on this because it keeps coming up. That's not what happened. Re-read, if you can be asked. If not, take my word for it.

    The other points I'd place varying amounts of weight on, but it's not important. I was just trying to expand on what the OP was asking.
     
  11. Josh

    Josh Comic Color-guy

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    cuz the art was so GAWGEOUS <3
    #notbiased
     
  12. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Maybe I had such a hard time remembering it because of how utterly stupid the Sunstreaker as a traitor plot was. Like trying to squint through a haze. Of fart gas.

    Seriously, his whole incredible hatred towards humans to the point where he'd side with the Decepticons is just contrived. A human saved his life, Scorponok was actually the one responsible for what was done to him, and while Sunstreaker's not the brightest Autobot, he's not so rock-stupid enough to blame an entire species and think siding with Megs wouldn't, like, totally backfire. Which then led to the literal gruesome character-assasination of Hunter and urgh AHM was just dumb, man. It was just dumb. Not smart. Anti-intelligent.
     
  13. Puck Hockey

    Puck Hockey Well-Known Member

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    All Hail Megatron was pretty decent. It does throw out everything established before it, and the premise is pretty much an excuse for the events to play out rather than happening naturally, and it's pretty drawn out, but is it bad? Nah. It's fun in a popcorn way and the characters felt much, much more alive than when Furman wrote them.
     
  14. Hot Shot.

    Hot Shot. Well-Known Member

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    This, plus McCarthy cut the cast down to 1984/animated movie with cartoon personalities and inserted his samurai fan-character into it. Blergh.

    IDW G1 was pretty solid before AHM with the exception of Megatron: Origins, which was total dogshit. Then McCarthy got hired and began the Dork Age that Costa continued until Death of Optimus Prime brought the main title back to readability.
     
  15. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Killed Hunter.
    Made Ironhide a douche.
    Started the trend of IDW Optimus feeling like he has no fucking clue what he's doing.
    Screwed up allot of things Furman had set the ground work for as well as disregarding allot of other stuff.
    Put Starscream and many others in there G1 bodies for no reason other then "muh G1"

    all in all it was a mess.

    still there were a few jems

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. DarkWarGrimlock

    DarkWarGrimlock Well-Known Member

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    Loved All Hail Megatron, made IDW for me after not getting Furman's stuff and Last Stand of the Wreckers. I read AHM in one sitting last year and didn't have any issues with pacing. It's a lot like something Brian Micheal Bendis would right. A pain to read month to month as no single issue feels like "enough", but great to read as a trade.

    I think people overexaggerate the idea that it ignored continuity. Stuff like the Hunter/Sunstreaker connection established in Furman's stuff was very important. The mode change thing to make them more G1 is no different than the characters changing modes to sell toys like they do all the time in the current stuff. And even then, not bogging the thing down in continuity made it accessible to new readers. I had no idea what was going on in Last Stand the first time I read it because it was made for current readers alone.

    As for it being dumb, I think we got a lot of great characterization about the turmoils of war from Thundercracker, Sunstreaker, Megaton, Starscream, and a few others in the tie-in stuff. Plus, it was just a damn fun story, and gave us Drift which is a huge plus in my book. My only personal issue with the story is that it doesn't quite stick the landing. I'd still very much recommend it as the ideal starting place for IDW to new readers.
     
  17. Anguirus

    Anguirus Well-Known Member

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    Ok, NOW I get why Barber characterizes the Constructicons the way he does. :lol 
     
  18. ZeroiaSD

    ZeroiaSD Autobot

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    The death of Hunter really left a bad taste in the mouth, as he had been very much set up to be on a good character arc with Sunstreaker.

    And it still doesn't exactly make sense how using him let the Decepticons hack the Autobot's communications...
     
  19. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Tell me about it. Do you know how hard it is for there to be a human most fans actually like?

    Hunter manged that, and then Mcarthy threw him in the trash disposal.
     
  20. gregles

    gregles quintesson

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    I think it didn't help that the furman run whilst it started promising it was hurriedly and clumsily ended so suddenly shoehorning in a dreamwave style G1 cartoon homage with very little story depth left a sour taste in my mouth at the time.

    To reassess it now though, it had an ok premise of letting the villain win which on reflection could have been pushed much further and it did start to ask some interesting questions about the Decepticons motives and the starscream/Megatron relationship but it was far from an essential read based on its own merits.