Why Optimus' distrust in humanity doesn't work for me.

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by LegionofMordor, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. LegionofMordor

    LegionofMordor Well-Known Member

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    First off, please don't think of this as another Bay-bashing thread. If you like this film, be my guest. This is just my opinion. And another thing, sorry of this has already been a topic.

    So basically, in this film, Optimus and the autobots have lost faith in humanity because they have hunted them down and destroyed a lot of their kind. It has gotten to the point where Optimus himself threatens to kill humans. Now, considering how he was betrayed by Sentinal in the last film, you'd understand why he has trust issues now. And that his dead friends are being used as experiments. I understand being angry, but he has his anger targeted at the wrong people.

    It's not humanity as a whole that has betrayed him; it's the government that he once considered an ally that betrayed him. Not once has their been human beings that weren't federal agents that were antagonistic towards him. Yes, Tessa and Lucas were afraid of him, but only because they have never met a Transformer and only know them by what the government tells them. Hell, the president of the US even thinks that they're allies still. It's the old concept of show-don't-tell. There should've been videos of riots of people that hate them and want them off the planet. As far as we could tell, it's only Attiger and his ops that want them off. Optimus basically is thinking that if a few human beings are bad, then everyone is bad. That's the equivalent of a random dog walking by and pisses on your leg and you now hate all dogs because of that.

    To be honest, I know that this isn't the G1 Prime. It's a different interpretation. And it would actually be pretty interesting to see Optimus giving up hope for humans. But this was a half-assed version of it. You wanna know a well done version of this concept? In Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Caesar didn't have the best time with humans. Not just government bureaucrats, but normal humans, so you understood that he didn't trust humans. But even he knew that they were some GOOD humans out there. Because he has experienced them. Optimus HAS seen good humans before the film. Did he forget about Lennox, Epps, Sam, Morshower, etc? Did they also betray the autobots? Optimus here has a dangerous black-and-white thinking going on here. He might as well point to a baby and say "I'll kill you!"

    In the end, he has his faith restored but it was a poorly thought out arc that could've been interesting but had terrible execution.

    ''I'm new here btw''
     
  2. PrimeTime85

    PrimeTime85 Well-Known Member

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    But in his mind the government isn't doin anything to stop what's his face from killing them. So to Optimus everyone cant be trusted until otherwise proven..
     
  3. OP84

    OP84 Well-Known Member

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    What you said would make sense if it weren't for the fact that when Optimus awakens in Cade's barn, he's immediately trusting of him JUST for having removed a missle from him.
     
  4. Kraken

    Kraken Is a vegiesaurus, Lex. Veteran

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    Yep. It's not as if he's waded into the middle of the nearest town and started laying waste to every fleshling he sees. The only humans he is violent towards are KSI and Cemetery Wind, the ones that have been actively hunting and desecrating his friends.
     
  5. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Here.

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    What's with comparing Apes to Transformers all of a sudden, screw that.

    He was angry at the wrong people? That's why he stormed KSI for smeletering Ratchet's head and told Cade, Cemetery wind would kill him...
     
  6. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

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    I agree. Optimus is suppose to be a defender of mankind
     
  7. LegionofMordor

    LegionofMordor Well-Known Member

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    I can see your point but it's still too black and white for him. Of course he should've realized that humans aren't that innocent. He acknowlaged that in the 2nd film when he refused to give his tech to the army. And frankly, if he searched their language through the internet, he should've known the wars that dictators have caused throughout the years. And on the other side, there are folks who have done good things (cure for polio, making Frozen, etc.) Prime should've realized a long time ago that everything is an extreme shade of gray when it comes to everything. It left me uneasy when he was close to going to abandon Earth for the mistakes "we" made when only Attinger and Joyce are to blame for helping Megatron's reincarnation. Yes, he's only killed one human, and it was the one who deserved it, but before that, he keeps referring to humans as a whole instead of the specific groups responsible.

    I know he has faith in Cade but that's only when Cade offered to help him and he did, not to mention getting him away from the ops. Initially, he only wanted to sell him for parts but he didn't know he was a Transformer and immediately wanted to help him. And judging from his state from the beginning, it looks like he was am used by the ops. There could've been more to elaborate his distrust, not just a special covert ops? Plus, did Prime knew about the CIA supposedly paying the humans to give them their location. And if people did report their whereabouts for the ops to find them, again, it's a big gray area. They want money and don't really know anything about them except what the anti-Transfomers people inside the gov told them. Heck, maybe there is a lot of humans who actually believe that they are Heros. The president and that pornstache guy think so. There really should've been videos in the beginning that showed riots against their presence and videos of debates against the haters and defenders.

    I just thought this arc wasn't very well thought out. I used Dawn of the Planet of the Apes because Caesar was going through something similar to Prime.
     
  8. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    He could have murdered a shitload of people at the KSI factory but they didn't actually harm any of the humans.
     
  9. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 Veteran

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    Optimus isn't in some "I hate/don't trust/don't compare about all humans now" mindset. He's just to the point where he's so fed up with everything.
    It happens when every new action film comes out.

    Pacific Rim..
    Avengers..

    etc etc
     
  10. ultramason

    ultramason Banned

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    ..
     
  11. Autobots14

    Autobots14 I'm pregant Trevor

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    Optimus doesn't really hate humans he just lost faith in them well expect for the Yeagers they actually helped him when he was in rusty mode, and of course he'll get mad at the humans for killing his friends and melting them for Transforium.
     
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Dr Pepper Fan

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    The bot has fought again and again to protect us. The bot saw his planet disintegrate in order to ensure the Earth's survival. The bot died in defence of his alien friend. He gave us everything, defended us to the end, and we reward that compassion for our species via hunting him down, assisting his enemy and murdering his friends.

    Optimus gave us a future and we gave him a knife in his back.
     
  13. Prime05

    Prime05 Active Member

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    Whoa, whoa, whoa. According to everyone there is no plot...
     
  14. Ironhide1234

    Ironhide1234 Here.

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    THESE.

    He told Cade, "My deepest sympathies for your loss", when Lucas was killed. Lucas' death was partially on Primes hand as he was in the situation. He only shot at CW guys. He stormed KSI and did NOT kill anyone, just destroyed the tech they were using to butcher his friends corpse and make their vehicons. Hound was all up for shooting Tucci but Optimus said no. He protected Cade, the one he trusts from Attinger, the one who is responsible for his friends deaths.

    Why should he defend those who want to kill him? He may aswell have defended the Decepticons from fuck all and be shot to shit on the spot.

    Do some of you people honestly believe that Prime would be written in as human killer without a perfectly good reason
     
  15. bumblebee22

    bumblebee22 Well-Known Member

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    Optimus did lose faith in humans but he didn't kill any humans because he wanted to. When he first awakens in the barn he does threaten to kill the humans but it was just like when Sentinel was awokened and attacked Optimus. Like sentinel he was scared and confused so his first instinct was to defend himself. When he burst out of the barn and shoots humans it's only to protect Cade, Tessa and Lucas. He could have stayed under the barn and let Cade die and he would have been safe but he decided to risk his life to save him. When the Autobot's storm into KSI they don't kill any humans either they just scare them away. Optimus could have killed Joshua since he was the one who actually had Ratchet get melted but he didn't he just left with intentions of leaving Earth. When Optimus kills Attinger it's only to save Cade who was about to die.

    But it also makes sense for Optimus not to trust humans at all. Just look at what happened he trusted Cade, Tessa and Lucas and Lucas ended up reporting him. Tessa was scared so she also wanted to report him and Cade only helped Optimus so he could use him to make his inventions better. So none of the three humans actually wanted to help Optimus for being an autobot.

    Now what if Cade hadn't repaired Optimus and had just reported him right away? Well Optimus would he dead. Optimus however made the mistake of trusting Cade which ended up saving his life and stopping Galvatron and lockdown. It's even explained in the movie by Cade that mistakes can result in good things.
     
  16. EnergonWaffles

    EnergonWaffles Autobot's Head Chef Veteran

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    But remember that people have been calling KSI to turn Autobots in. While KSI has been the one doing the killing, civilians have been the ones tipping KSI off in exchange for money.

    So yes, he should have trust issues with civilians. How could he not when it's clear that civilians have been involved?
     
  17. Decepticons

    Decepticons B∆K. Bug-a-Boo Ghost.

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    It's also because the Yeagers didn't report him.
     
  18. Zhadow

    Zhadow Oh hi there

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    Yes Optimus angry he'll let Nemesis Prime take advantage.
     
  19. NotRamjet97

    NotRamjet97 Well-Known Member

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    In most series he protected humans because the Decepticons were trying to wipe humans out completely.

    Guess what? In AOE, the humans are trying to wipe Autobots out of existence.
     
  20. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 Veteran

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    Remember though that no one knew they were hunting Autobots. If the system was done correctly, it would've been:

    Human sees an Autobot and calls
    Cemetery Wind investigates
    Sees it's an Autobot and calls it a false alarm

    And just as a little side note, KSI is just in business with Cemetery Wind and not doing the actual hunting. CW hunts them down and Attinger hands them over to KSI so he can get a piece of the company.