Why don't the TF owners see a problem with the TF movie franchise?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Blindspot77, Aug 3, 2014.

?

Agree with my post or....

  1. Yes, totally.

    14 vote(s)
    25.5%
  2. Nah.

    22 vote(s)
    40.0%
  3. Meh.

    19 vote(s)
    34.5%
  1. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

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    I also said "good" is enjoyable. You can still enjoy Schindler's List because of how emotional it was, or meaningful. Good doesn't just mean "good time" or "fun."

    But it's not about "us" huh. Or the we, or you. It's about how well the film does.

    But clearly, you're more qualified than I am, even though it's not about "you", right?


    Transformers tells a story. Again, it's a good story. It's not a great story. It's not fantastic, amazing, a masterpiece, but it's good. It keeps me engaged.

    Yes, please play the victim in words that I never said or even considered by placing them in my proverbial mouth. Did you miss the other parts I posted about the movies quality? Or how others opinions matter as well? I could say that a movie you think is "good" is bad because I think it's bad on a personal level. That's right, it is in fact about "me." My view. If I find something enjoyable, it's good. Bottom line. The same applies to you. To all of us.

    If you can't understand that when people say "It's good" means "I think it's good" without actually saying that part, then you really don't have a right to preach to me about the qualifications of the opinions of others.

    The difference here, is I don't say your opinion doesn't count or isn't qualified enough just because you disagree. You're free to think the movies are "not good" or "trash" or "shit" or whatever word you want to use, just as I'm allowed to think they're good.

    I'm quoting this line again just so you can try to see the problem. You put yourself on a pedestal, tell others they can't think something is good to them because it's not good to you. That's not how this works, regardless if you study film theory or not. I wouldn't give a damn if you were a professional critic, your opinion is your own and only yours. So again it is about a personal view. I'm not going to let others think for me, I'm not going to think for others.
     
  2. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    Good fiction isn't necessarily enjoyed. It is felt. It is experienced.

    I agree! You're the one who said;

    And this is why I value my opinion more than yours. Who was talking about story? I'm talking about storytelling. That's what matters. Execution over concept.

    Right, you never said exactly that- Oh, wait.

    This is the second time this has happened. So do you actually read which part of your post I'm responding to before replying in turn, or...?

    Oh no, I read them, they were just the same wrong thing over and over again that I already addressed.

    Yeah. That. Wrong.

    See, you having a good time doesn't make something effective at getting across the ideas and emotions the author(s) of the piece intended. Which is what "Good" means in terms of artistic quality.

    I'm not disputing that if you're saying it, it's your opinion. That's... Obvious. Basic. I've had to explain that to others before.

    The point I'm arguing is that "Good" doesn't mean what you're claiming it does in this context. You can still have an opinion about whether something is good or bad, but it's not just about if you liked it or not.

    Yep. Except I have, you know, arguments about effectiveness and storytelling and all the things that actually make or break a movie and you have the fact that you personally had a good time.

    See, you don't think something is "Good to you" or "Bad to you". That's not how it works. You just think something is good or bad. If you just liked or disliked an experience, then it was enjoyable to you. Or not. But that has nothing to do with actual goodness.
     
  3. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

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    I'm not sure how a good story doesn't equate to good storytelling. If the story is good, then obviously the part where you figured out the story was good had to come from... somewhere.

    But this really is just tiring.

    You've said time and again that you post in the movie forum because you have this hope that maybe they'll change and succeed, but what you're really doing is alienating your fellow Transformer fans because they think something is good but because it isn't to you, you go on the defensive.

    Maybe one day you'll come down and join all the simple people.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2014
  4. Wolf

    Wolf old school bot

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    Lets be honest....i love speculating here on this site.....but ultimately just like when i watched G1.....its the entertainment that counts. I want to be entertained. The plot only had to be semi consistent at best......and i think that's the approach they may be going with in the bayverse....as true to the roots of transformers as you can get Imo.
     
  5. Wolf

    Wolf old school bot

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    Just one other thing.....wobder why they haven't employed a team to rewrite the whole timeline of the transformers universe from scratch just for the movie verse......in order to help sort the irregularities in the stories....just putting that out there.....
     
  6. Galvatron II

    Galvatron II I can type whatever here?

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    No, it's all about how it's communicated. It's how a premise is executed that makes the difference. Not the premise itself. For instance, a group of crime fighting teenage mutant ninja turtles sounds pretty stupid, huh? But play it super serious and make it a satire poking fun at just how seriously comics at the time were taking similarly inherently ridiculous premises? Suddenly it's awesome.

    That's what "storytelling" means in the context of narrative construction. Just like how "good" means something specific in the context of artistic appraisal and criticism.

    In the interest of clarity;

    I never said that you can't have an opinion about whether something is good or bad if it differs from my own. I simply said that good and bad in terms of artistic quality isn't about personal enjoyment so much as the effective communication of ideas and emotions.

    That's it! Is that really as offensive as you're making out?

    I already forgot it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2014
  7. tokuformers

    tokuformers Well-Known Member

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    these films will never make more money than a good and true transformers movie.
    never.

    a good movie about transformers with their characters, story, plot, mythology, elements, technology, character development and other things that the universe can offer,
    can make more money and attract more people to the franchise than previous films made ​​or any other movie franchises.
    transformers that interact between them, use their abilities in robot form or any other form, piloting vehicles and other things they can do.
    this is not something hard to do.
    with a good director, writer and editors.
    with good development, production and post production.
    good marketing with all your characters Tf posters, trailers, TV spots, clips and other types of advertisements, transformers may be more than you can imagine.
    is more than logical.
    with or without michael bay.

    which the difficulty of making a good and true transformers movie?
    with examples of other films from other franchises and examples of cartoons, comics (idw, Dreamwave, marvel uk and us), books, games, toys concepts, and other sources that the franchise has.
     
  8. optimus1

    optimus1 Well-Known Member

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  9. TFfanatic88

    TFfanatic88 Banned

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    Exactly. The Bayformers movies are some of the most boring and insultingly bad pieces of crap to ever grace cinema. For Transformers, it belongs in the very bottom of the barrel along with Kiss Players and Pat Lee. For action movies/summer blockbusters, they belong in the same sentence as Godzilla '98, the Star Wars prequels, or The Last Airbender.

    Probably because moviegoers have no standards anymore apparently. After all, this is the same planet where tripe like Twilight and Justin Bieber are popular.
     
  10. MasterZero

    MasterZero Taking a Break

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    Most of those movies, save for Last Airbender, are that bad in my opinion. I don't think I'd call Godzilla and Phantom Menace GOOD, but Clone Wars had a badass climax, Revenge of the Sith was decent at times. Personally, I think the Clone Wars CGI cartoon is better than the three movies, but that's me.

    One Direction FTW.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJO3ROT-A4E
     
  11. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Hasbro hasn't "stepped in" because they've almost certainly been heavily involved in the development of each film on fundamental and specific levels since day one. They're already "in".
     
  12. Priest of Salem

    Priest of Salem Well-Known Member

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    The German people in the 1930's thought Hitler was great.In the years to come when Transformers has no credibility left after years of bad movies,Hasbro will see the error of their ways.Greed has blinded them.
     
  13. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Godwin's law, eh? When Transformers 6 gets subtitled "The Final Solution", then that comparison will be closer to appropriate.
     
  14. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    The simple answer is: people keep seeing them (multiple times in some cases) and they keep making mega bucks.

    For that perspective there is no problem.

    From the perspective of quality versus movies of a similar genre then there is a huge problem.
     
  15. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Everyone that said it's because the movies make a ton of money- you are correct! And besides that, sequels are expected to bring in less and less with each sequel. The fact that Transformers is still a strong performer is something of a mind-blower. From a strictly business POV, they'd be stupid to change.
     
  16. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

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    I actually thought TF4 was better than Guardians especially when it comes to action
     
  17. Blindspot77

    Blindspot77 Well-Known Member

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    We have seen the mediocre quailty of the TF series they can be improved by miles over time, and with newer and newer tech and emergence of great directors. But it did not improve fast enough to play catchup.

    The transmorphing idea of Galvy and his croonies are cool. But the animation is not wekk executed. Even the part in the lab where the transformium materials morphed is screaming FAKE. It did not make me excited but meh instead.

    That is just one of the many many jarring things in TF4.

    Why I had to compare to Guardians. Because for a non mainline non serious movie the director and his team can executed it so well. Why can't future TF movies replicate that effort. No money? I don't think so. More like they earned much till the monies are blocking their foresight. There is another 3 years we have to see of bay. So fingers crossed that he will wake up to the noise of our true to heart comments.