Why do the movies get so much hate?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Kirby0189, Sep 21, 2015.

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  1. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Autobot Burnout go back and read my first post about stereotypes did I insult anyone not exactly I said the idea of stereotypes was racist which it kind of is and eventually I did clarify that I wasn't calling everyone racist. you're next comment on the other hand asked if there was something wrong with me as did many others remember that. You didn't read my whole post since someone had to correct you on what I said remember that too.

    My first comment was warning him that things could get ugly here that was it's point I don't insult anyone I state no ones going to change their mind eventually I decided this is about trying to defend the movies so I did is that wrong now too. What else is wrong what other comment did i put that was wrong this is why i signal you out everyone disagrees with me says who you, just because you say it that makes it a fact.

    People have agreed with me before and really my warning to him was legit look what happened to this thread if you didn't like what I was saying about stereotypes you could've dropped the topic like I asked kindly multiple times but no instead of just forgetting about it you keep dragging it on and on Hot Shot goes out of his way to make stupid and rude post just to prove a point he could've stopped. You want to believe in stereotypes fine but the next time I say drop it drop it. You're right this isn't worth it and if Hot Shot wouldn't post such rude comments I wouldn't be fighting it if you would just drop it and stop I wouldn't fight it so drop it get back to the topic and maybe finally answer my original question.

    Hot Shot, You are being inconsiderate mostly towards me or was your chiseled in a mountain comment not supposed to sound rude is that supposed to inspire to want to stay no, well no shit it was rude for no reason!

    You are not listening if you were someone would've answered my question by now someone would've responded to every robot scene I named someone would've responded when I put every single character arc and described every single story and how they're different. No one responded to any of those so no you're not listening you're reading the parts that make it easiest to pounce on me while ignoring everything else, if you weren't ignoring everything else you would've noticed how many times I told people their opinion was fine. If Autobot Burnout was listening and paying attention he would've noticed I one answered all the questions in his response in my first comment. Two already said if people disagree that's fine. Three would've known I was just suggesting things I thought would help and meant no offense.

    No one notices these so no you're not listening because if you were I for one wouldn't still be arguing about racism since that wasn't even my question. And two would've already had a debate about the character arcs which I didn't or story lines no one's responded so no you and many others aren't listening at all.
     
  2. MeisterAl

    MeisterAl Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    You must be really burnt-out from reading and responding to all of his posts.
     
  3. Hot Shot.

    Hot Shot. Well-Known Member

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    Not believing in something doesn't make it untrue.

    I take offense to that.

    I'm posting stupid comments with a very valid reason.

    You're the one who started insisting that the people who don't agree with you are stupid.

    Because there's nothing to respond to. The movies aren't masterfully-crafted cinema classics full of subtlety and positive risk-taking. They're made to put asses in seats. Bay didn't put the Romeo & Juliet thing in AoE because it was some progressive risk. He did it because it was awkward and he thought that was funny.

    I made that remark because you're frustrating. It should be a 1+2=3 moment, but you're telling me that you don't believe in 2.

    I'm not even part of this clusterfuck where you're overanalyzing the movies. I took issue with the fact you said racial stereotypes don't exist, when that statement is just wrong. They absolutely do exist. I acted out a very infamous one just to show you how wrong you were, and despite calling it insensitive you still won't acknowledge it was a racial stereotype.

    “If you smell something, say something.”
     
  4. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    I never called people stupid seriously do you read what I say I mean at all you're comment wasn't making a point it was making me angry I don't believe in them I don't think they should exist and nothing you say is going to change that all it's going to do is make me angry and drag this out longer than it needs to go on how are you any different you're trying to force me to admit and believe what you do even more so you're not trying to change my opinion you're trying to change a very personal belief I have how are you any better?

    How is you being frustrated with me for my belief on stereotypes any different from me being frustrated with Decepticon for refusing to see all the strong female characters in Hollywood that I named off to prove it wasn't sexist how is your comment any different?

    Finally I can get back to my final original question how was what happened with Optimus in Age not risky or having him kill a human for the first time in like ever not risky. How was not doing the expected bad ass Megatron and doing instead a megatron who get's gradually weaker something that would obviously piss off fans not risky. They could've chosen Unicron and Galvatron for the forth they used Lockdown as the focus a character at the time only about five years old. They made the Fallen Megatron's mentor despite the fact that it would obviously make many people not happy. Basically making Alpha Trion a bad guy. Killing Iron Hide despite how popular he is. Making the humans the driving villains of the forth despite how much fans hate that idea. How is this not risky a risk is doing something different rather than what people would expect more so it's usually controversial the movies do this all the time. How is none of this not risky?
     
  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    If nobody is listening, or at least the way you want them to, then screaming louder and insulting people while simultaneously denying that a form of racism exists isn't going to magically make this your soapbox you seem to think this is. There are ways to make people listen, but you've proven time and again you refuse to budge from whatever it is that you're doing, which is outright refusing to believe anything that you don't accept as it means having to face some ugly truths.

    What you also don't seem to realize is that you're not getting anywhere by screaming words into a computer screen, feverishly responding to other people who, as far as you are physically concerned, are nothing more than user names and a picture under them.

    You will literally be doing something more productive by signing out of TFW and walking away from the computer to read a fucking book, instead of arguing why your opinions as to why people hating the films is somehow a violation of the geneva convention. Because then you won't be getting so worked up over the opinions of other people that have absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. It's not healthy, man.

    Actually, it's providing a decent method of venting in between studying Unix-based bash shell scripting for a college course.
     
  6. Hot Shot.

    Hot Shot. Well-Known Member

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    Wow, where did the periods go?

    Except you have, more than once.

    Except I very clearly made a point. I don't care if it makes you angry.

    They shouldn't exist, but they do. Denying the problem exists doesn't make it disappear.

    Well that's mature...

    Again, believing in something doesn't make it real, and denying an existence doesn't make something not exist. If I claimed sexuality didn't exist, wouldn't you disagree? If I said it was my belief, wouldn't you try to prove otherwise?

    Easy. It's your opinion that certain female characters are "strong." It's a fact that stereotypes exist.
     
  7. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan DEFIANTLILHORDE

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    It's a recent interest of mine! lol. I'm sure he's a lovely man (I assume he's a he) in the real world, but in here he's a bit of a grumpy pants. He even deleted my apology I sent him after our last conflict! :lol  Maybe it's just me! :lol 

    And smileys! remember you hate those too!! :)  :D  :)  :D  :)  :D  :)  :D  :)  :D 
     
  8. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    Hot Shot this is pointless like I said I see it as a perception that we created it's all on us to me that's all it is a perception that if people stopped believing would disappear. I could keep arguing everything you put and keep trying to defend myself but I won't because as much as I hate to admit it Autobot Burnout is right I let this go too far so I'm going to end it. This is pointless the whole thing was pointless I admit I was out of line saying some of what I said now I just want to end this so I ask you please just forget about it please just move on.

    Autobot Burnout First you're right I was the one wasting time you're right. Second I don't want people to agree with me that's what you keep mistaking though I haven't been as clear on that as I could be, I want to have a friendly debate about the different views we have but no one's done that no one's even tried I don't want you to agree with me especially if you deeply don't i just want you to explain your reasoning preferably kindly then I state why I don't think that showing details I believe you give your view then we move on.

    That's all I want but no ones ever done it instead they just say that's wrong and ignore everything else I want to show my perspective then see yours but I want to see it in a form that isn't a rant I want to see it calmly I want to understand your perspective but I want to understand when it's not clouded by endless hate.

    I have been doing other stuff I've been multitasking. I've always had a different view of things it's not going to change I told Hot Shot this now I'll tell you it's not going to change like you though I don't want to talk about this anymore.

    I do feel I need to clarify one more thing my statement was never meant to be offensive I just don't understand why people would rather see something like a stereotype over a character I just don't get why one would rather focus on that I've never understood why someone would want to focus on just the negatives at all.

    Why was it annoying that I stated a certain scene from Rocky I liked or that I liked a Beautiful mind why is me being positive about that annoying. This isn't an attack or anything I truly want to know why you would find that annoying?
     
  9. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    You call everybody thick headed, refuse to acknowledge a form of racism because you personally think it shouldn't exist and hate how everybody keeps bringing it up since, y'know, it kind of does exist regardless of how you feel about it, and then actively deny calling people stupid - which is a synonym for 'thick headed' so it's really the same thing.

    Again, your unprovoked, hostile first post in this thread proves otherwise:
    You don't say you want to see other people's beliefs, you outright confirm you don't like how people's opinions will not change from things like Prime is a psychopath (namely because he's robot Hannibal Lector with the faces fetish) or the like.

    And yet you keep coming back to talk about it nonetheless.
    Because stereotypes are how the brain works. Example: If it quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then it's a duck. This is a stereotype, as it assumes that everything that quacks and looks like a duck, is a duck.

    Stereotypes by default aren't actually bad - it's just when the only time certain stereotypes are always portrayed in a negative light, then it's a real problem.

    The Twins are, unintentional or otherwise, a negative stereotype because they talk like "gangstas" which is kind of a sub-culture that has sprung up from gang-heavy areas in not too well off urban slums, though appropriated by rebellious white teens as being "trendy" or some shit. Why the Twins pose a negative stereotype is that they talk like that and spend the entire film being idiots, meaning that the characterization they were based off of is painting a picture of all people who talk like that...are also idiots. And most of the people who talk 'gangsta' happen to be black.

    Same reason it's annoying now: this has nothing to fucking do with the topic at hand. Every time you bring up some other movie you've seen, you keep trying to derail a thread even harder.
     
  10. Warpshard

    Warpshard Well-Known Member

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    I think one of the reasons the movies get so much criticism is partially because of how they're based around the human factor. Never in Transformers have Humans had the starring role in the cartoons, or in the original movie. It was always about the cool, alien robots. Yet, the movies focus around the people. The boring, not-so-typical humans. We see them everyday, so why exactly do we want to see more of them in a movie based around giant fighting robots? Yeah, we should have humans just so it's slightly more relatable (The Transformers don't really give much in terms of emotion other than one defining trait, mostly blood-lust, so they can't fill that role), but don't focus on them. Focus on the thing the entire franchise backing the movie is about. The Transformers.

    Also, just some of the junk that Bay throws in for laughs but end up being in bad taste. Pretty much everything about the Twins, Bumblebee peeing on Epps(?), Soundwave raping the satellite, Dick-Bot the Blender Guy, etc.
     
  11. Lord Tron

    Lord Tron Well-Known Member

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    I admit it has had a lot of funny memes but I don't think Soundwave and the satelite were meant to be funny creepy maybe but I don't think humor is what he was aiming for.
     
  12. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Oh my goodness the cans of worms that get opened when I try to go to work for 10 hours.

    The Twins, how the hell did we get back to the Twins? Did anyone on the production team set out to offend anyone? No. Each part taken on it's own is not offensive. It's only when the parts are put together that they come off as something that could be taken as offensive. Should have been caught in the editing room but in the rush to get the the movie out it was missed. If the production team didn't think the Twins were worth a fight by bringing them back in the next movie then maybe we don't need to defend them either.

    Does it make you some sort of "ist" or a bad person who hates other people to point out that something doesn't seem kosher? No. If anything good people should speak up when something comes off as offensive even if the intent wasn't to offend. If someone makes an ugly remark about Jews you aren't anti-Semitic to say that's wrong to say that.

    So why doesn't Drift catch hell? Because Drift falls into archetype and trope rather than stereotype. As long as Drift remains more of a Seven Samurai type of character rather than the Japanese style characters from the propaganda cartoons of the 40's then it's okay for a character to be a Samurai type. Tropes and archetypes are a common story telling tool that's why almost every World War II movie made in the US has the tough little guy from Brooklyn in it.

    Hollywood sexist? Oh hell yea. You'd have to do some weird accounting to see that women don't get the short end when it comes to movies and TV. For every Aliens you can find a long list of movies where women are there to be saved and won by the hero. We've had an explosion of superhero movies and even TV getting in on the super action but it's taken until now to get Supergirl as a show. If all things were equal in Hollywood characters like Imperator Furiosa wouldn't be holy crap I wasn't expecting that. Heck when Wonder Woman has trouble getting her own film that says Hollywood isn't crazy about women taking the hero spotlight.

    Well off to bed to see what new can of worms will be opened by the time the cat wakes me up.
     
  13. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    No you don't have to do any weird accounting. It's all about demographics, you are talking about a specific genre, action. Do you have any actual numbers on the audience that watches action movies? You are also not taking into account other genres like comedy or romance movies where women are all over the place. And tv, are you serious? How many cop/crime shows show have women in them? I am going to guess Every single CSI, Law & Order, and NCIS. In sit coms there is the stereotypical show where the wife is the smart rational one and the husband is the schlub. Let's see some actual numbers.
     
  14. Livingdeaddan

    Livingdeaddan DEFIANTLILHORDE

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    I think you're basically right. But there's still an imbalance. Hollywood are scared of rocking the boat when it comes to action, but to the honest the paradigm shift is there for the taking, I mean after all, this did happen...

    [​IMG]
     
  15. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

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    Agreed. Earlier one poster said that the male "never gets abducted" yet it clearly happened.

    I think a lot of hate these movies get is because of blinders. Stuff gets questioned, it gets explained and then that explanation is shrugged off because... BAY RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!
     
  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Except it wasn't only just the male - that was a car with three people in it that got taken.
     
  17. Rob

    Rob Prowl Fan

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    It depends on what criticism we are talking about. My main complaint are more towards both shallow human and Transformer characters in a plot that is executed poorly. I can get passed not liking the designs, IF the characters themselves had more depth and the stories unfolded better. I mean so many characters are labeled heroic, smart, selfless, kind, etc. not because of their actions but because the dialogue has to reminds us.
     
  18. Hazekiah

    Hazekiah Banned

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    I can only assume you're DELIBERATELY overlooking the fact that literally NONE of the Decepticons gave a shit about Mikaela or Leo.

    Like AT ALL.

    So WHO was it they were abducting again???

    Oh, that's right..."only just the male."
     
  19. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

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    Exhibit A.
     
  20. NeverDoubt

    NeverDoubt Well-Known Member

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    Can I give the first movie a compliment? Its portrayal of the military is ten times better than James Cameron's in Avatar. Yes, both portrayls are simplistic, but at least Bay largely treated the soldiers like real people with families and lives, etc (same in Pearl Harbor). Cameron's cartoony demonization was cringe worthy.
     
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