Why do so many people dislike the Quintesson origin?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by HotRodDidNothingWrong, Jun 17, 2021.

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What are your thoughts on the Quintesson origin?

  1. It's my preferred origin story

    32 vote(s)
    38.6%
  2. It isn't my favorite origin, but I like it

    32 vote(s)
    38.6%
  3. I don't like it

    13 vote(s)
    15.7%
  4. It's dumb and I hate it

    6 vote(s)
    7.2%
  1. gdg104198

    gdg104198 Well-Known Member

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    I probably prefer the Quintession origin because I like the idea the cybertronians were a slave race that rebelled against their creators. The Primus stuff is a little too biblical for my tastes.
     
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  2. Honorbound

    Honorbound Bayverse Optimus was in the right.

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    I know that's part of it for me, at least.

    I just dislike the nihilistic pettiness of it - I much prefer a creation story that involves a loving creator instead of a bunch of lunatics.
     
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  3. Applejacktimus

    Applejacktimus Eater of Garbage

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    I prefer the Quintessons over Primus, but I will say that the G1 interpretation isn't... thematically the best way to present itself, and just about every other interpretation makes them just liars claiming to be the creators, which totally misses the point. I'm very, very tempted to get into detail but that's a powder keg.
     
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  4. CaioSilvatheScreamerFan

    CaioSilvatheScreamerFan Destron New Leader

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    What about Vector Sigma ?
     
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  5. shamanking282

    shamanking282 Well-Known Member

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    I think this misses a crucial point for why the Primus origin, as originally depicted in the Marvel comics, is so intriguing to me. He isn't an omnipotent being and certainly not a loving god. Primus's primary objective is to destroy Unicron at all costs. Unlike Unicron, who adapted his asteroid prison to allow him to feed and eventually take on a humanoid form, Primus opted to stay as a planet and instead create an army to fight his ancient enemy. The Autobot-Decepticon war and the carnage it wrought across at least two worlds was not of any consequence to Primus except for how that conflict affected his creations' ability to effective face down Unicron.
     
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  6. Honorbound

    Honorbound Bayverse Optimus was in the right.

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    I can't say I'm a fan of Marvel's take on Primus either, for exactly that reason.
     
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  7. Bandithu

    Bandithu Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of the Quintessons being greedy businessmen, but would’ve preferred if they just invaded cybertron and just started slapping labels on bots and selling them, rather than the Autobots and Decepticons being built as two races (instead of being factions based on differing ideology) that are certain ways because of their race. It falls into that old fiction trope of fictional races being evil just because they’re evil. It’s very simplistic and not very compatible with like current understandings of how the world works.
     
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  8. Rewind Eject

    Rewind Eject Still no war in Ba Sing Se

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    I don't understand your stance because Primus clearly isn't the God, the omnipotent being who created the whole universe and knows all. The existence of the Quintessons don't disprove His existence either ; you could even say He gave their hapless drones the spark of life.
    Is your position that all creators must be portrayed as loving?
     
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  9. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde シン・ブリュンヒルド

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    I think the invasion / colonization angle can definitely work, but I don't really have an issue with them being responsible for their creation entirely as well either. Animated did something similar to the Sunbow iteration which is why Autobots were smaller and less heavily armed than the Decepticons. I can see some bots being built specifically to be builders / laborers, some built to be weaponry, some built to be transport, maybe some even built to be entertainment / pets before ultimately becoming self aware and fighting back.

    At the end of the day though some alien races will choose to be evil, perhaps not due to how they were made / born but rather the culture and beliefs they hold, like the Arachnids from Starship Troopers or the Borg from Star Trek, or the Kree from Marvel, or the Orcs from Tolkien mythos.

    Because this is science fiction we should be able to explore more concepts and complicated ideas outside of our understanding / comfort zones, something like 'All Tomorrows' by C.M. Kosemen but with more robots.

    I can respect this point of view.

    Admittedly I think the whole nihilism / cynicism shtick has been done to death in general in the current year and I just find people who are overly so to be incredibly obnoxious and unpleasant individuals to be around.

    That said I don't at all mind some nihilism / cynicism in fiction but it gets exhausting when it's an almost constant bombardment, and just makes your audience jaded and apathetic after awhile. I like the idea that while the Quintessons represent an existential and uncomfortable question to the origins of their species, Primus (regardless if he's just software, their actual creator or just a symbol) could be a comforting, grounding force that gives them hope, even if they were built to be one thing, they can choose who they want to be, like the Iron Giant.

    Yeah you know that big lovable giant everyone adores? He was seemingly built by a species of aliens to conquer planets, and yet in the end he was able to choose what he wanted to be. Who's to say Optimus and his people couldn't collectively come to the same realization? (Yes I'm aware the giant had a head injury, but that's besides the point I'm making.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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  10. CaioSilvatheScreamerFan

    CaioSilvatheScreamerFan Destron New Leader

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    What about this whole speech by Optimus ?
    Prime kills Unicron.jpg
     
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  11. SuperSunnyDee

    SuperSunnyDee Sense is like cheesecake.

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    I prefer the Primus origin story, but I have grown to like the Quintesson explanation too.

    But I think the reason why the latter has been pushed to the side is simply because the Primus origin is just cooler. I mean, it’s a giant alien planet robot god that created a race of smaller alien robots to aid him in his war against another alien robot planet god of evil. That is grand, and a way to go big. Compare that to the Quintessons and you have the Transformers being glorified commercial goods.
     
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  12. Venixion

    Venixion Its always the middle of the night in Moonside

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    I didn't know they did hate it? Maybe because they grew up with a different origin and prefer that instead? I'm fine with it. It makes sense, robots don't build themselves. I'm down with other origin stories too.

    @CaioSilvatheScreamerFan I always thought they looked like a multi-faced dreidel myself.
     
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  13. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde シン・ブリュンヒルド

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    Honestly I like MOST of the existing origin stories for the TF's, the only one I'm not too big on is the Allspark because it's way too simplistic but then I enjoy the angle that the thing that gave them life is a mystery to them, that came from the stars and they're still studying it to decipher what it is, who made it and how it came to be.

    I think a movie-based Allspark would be a great foil for the Underbase. Perhaps to make successful life you need both the Allspark and the Underbase, without the UB they will be mindless / chaotic and without the Allspark there'd be no physical form to inhabit.

    But honestly after the Allspark being used again and again I'd rather it just went back to being a term for the afterlife. :lolol  :lolol 
     
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  14. Honorbound

    Honorbound Bayverse Optimus was in the right.

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    If something is posited as a creator god, then yes, it needs to be a loving creator. I'm no fan of the whole "rebellion against an uncaring God" nonsense.

    Thanks. As to nihilism/cynicism, there's room for a little cynicism, especially with regard to the good intentions of politicians and governments, but outright nihilism is frankly boring, low, and uninspiring.
     
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  15. Rewind Eject

    Rewind Eject Still no war in Ba Sing Se

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    I can tell further discussion would become fruitless and reductive so we'll have to agree to disagree here.
     
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  16. Honorbound

    Honorbound Bayverse Optimus was in the right.

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    Yeah. No sense in letting the thread devolve like others have (*he says while being party to a fair few threads going that way*).
     
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  17. DarkAxalonSyde

    DarkAxalonSyde Advocate for orignality in Transformers.

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    Pretty much this. I used to hate the Quintesson origin, simply because I found the Quintessons weird and lame. Over time, I've come to appreciate their unique appearances and the interesting commentary on the nature of Capitalism, control and war profiteering they kind of provide, but it's unavoidable that the way they were handled in G1 was really lame. If their epic, powerful, almost god-like presentation from Cyberverse were to be given to a version of them that were the creators of the Transformers, I think it would be a much more interesting story.
     
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  18. Roger Semerad

    Roger Semerad Well-Known Member

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    I quite like the Quintesson origin myself. It's complex and the collective trauma of the Cybertronian race inherits because of it makes the decent into a millennia long civil war after more tragic, but also more understandable. This is a race that was defined by enslavement and violence. That also might be the reason it is not used today. Transformers is a kids property foremost, having the backstory being that complex and morally grey makes it unpalatable to the mass market.

    The Quint origin is also a more hard sci-fi origin than the Primus one. As the years have gone by more and more magical and mythical elements have been added to the series. At this point, Transformers are so far into the magical side of storytelling that the Primus origin just works better than the more mundane Quint one. I don't think that's a bad thing, just a fact. If your stories are going to focus on magical artifacts, ancient mysteries, and chosen ones. You should also use a divine origin. The Quint origin naturally ask what things like the matrix, allspark, starsaber, spark, phase sixers, and concepts like Animated's processor over matter come from, and why they work. Under the Primus origin they're just ancient magic, case closed.
     
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  19. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde シン・ブリュンヒルド

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    This guy? This guy gets it.
     
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  20. Rodimus Primal

    Rodimus Primal Well-Known Member

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    I actually like the idea of a mixed origin story that has elements of both the Quintesson and the Primus origin. From a G1 cartoon perspective, Primus DOES fit into the origin of the Transformers if you consider the idea that the Quintessons themselves invaded the planet. Vector Sigma itself began acting quit "godlike" in the Rebirth when Optimus spoke with Alpha Trion and perhaps because it is a component of Primus in the core of Cybertron.
     
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