Why do people want the transformers to look like their g1 counterparts?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by TheWarPathGuy, Oct 10, 2018.

?

Should the characters be a cross between realism and cartoon?

  1. I never cared what they look like.

    6.5%
  2. Absolutely.

    47.0%
  3. I don't care what they look like; only if they act like the characters.

    14.3%
  4. No way!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I want them to be completely g1.

    17.9%
  6. I want them to be completely realistic.

    14.3%
  1. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Posts:
    5,856
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +5,537
    The reason why Shatter, Dropkick and Bee didn't look as much G1 as were the Cybertron scene bots wasn't because of any "sticking to the fundamentals" established for the first movie but because of the models and animation skeletons for them being closer to finalised back when the movie still was a prequel. Then TLK bombed exactly the way it fully deserved, Hasbro took more control and priorities shifted.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    3,488
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +2,525
    It sure didn't act like Starscream in the end and it didn't even have the right voice for Starscream. Look at the similarity in voices Chris Latta, Michael Dobson, Tom Kenny, Sam Reigel, Steve Blum and even Charlie Adler (post TF2007) have and compare that to the voice David Sobolov was giving.
    Voice Compare - Starscream

    Also here he is in his original look. Blue arms and all. And suddenly that original design we saw since the teaser is pretty much less Starscream than it is.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
  3. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    8,389
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +2,002
    Movie Starscream never acted liked like Starscream. It kinda bothers me that when Megatron saw his severed head in TLK he referred to him as tretorous when we never once saw him as anything buy absolutely loyal which is not how Starscream is suppose to be a one line of dialog doesn't fix that.

    As for voice, yeah Starscream does get better in the sequels but that first movie didn't sound like him either. Actually it was hard to tell Megatron and Starscream apart in that first movie it was like they ran both actors voices through the same vcoder.

    And that design you show of what I guess is Starscream on Cybertron looks exactly like Blitzwing. Colors are in the same places, the cockpit folds up exactly the same way onto his chest leaving that lip sticking straight out above it. The only real difference and this is the problem I have with that entire Cybertron scene... it doesn't look fully rendered. He's missing the textures that were on the Earth version which made it look real. Without those textures it just looks like a cartoon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Posts:
    897
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +947
    The very g1-ish Optimus and very g1-ish Blitzwing still stick to those fundamentals of design and styling and shape language. "Done early" has nothing to do with it, specially since Arcee, Cliffjumper, Wheeljack and others from that segment keep that pulse on the language developed by those films as well. Arcee, Ratchet and Cliffjumper entire facial structure is nearly identical to the same used for Crosshairs and Drift in the past films down to the optics inside of robotical eye sockets and that's not getting into the body composition once again keeping a puplse from the fundamentals. Again, the only design that failed to do that was Soundwave, and surprise surprise, he's also the one that looks like shit.

    Furthermore these are the same movies that completely changed the design of Jetfire's face skull last minute just because they needed him to sneer in a scene, and the same movies that did 3 entire sequences on Cybertron at the tail end of production just because their release date got delayed. If they wanted to modify parts to fit a "new priority" they would've. But they didn't, because thankfully a director with a background in visual development and animation knows more about the subject than internet geeks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Posts:
    5,856
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +5,537

    Soundwave and Shockwave are following same design principle with Optimus as the rest of cast in this scene - a hybrid of G1 and movieverse. They show as much exposed mechanicals as is Optimus, for an example. Which makes your personal theory and opinion a bit unbased...

    The thing is that it's your opinion that Soundwave looked much different or worse, but you're presenting it as a fact as if the opinion was shared by everyone else ever watching the movie.

    You think it failed and looked like a shit, but it's, idk, important only for you? :X


    Shatter, Dropkick and the base scheme for Bee are more classically bayformish, though. Rounded organic shapes, angular designs for the robot parts. Bee was redesigned, but Shatter and dropkick could be placed into AoE or TLK with barely any changes.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    3,488
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +2,525
    [​IMG]
    The head also did not have the gas mask thing.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    3,488
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +2,525
    Soundwave and Shockwave (+Megatron) are two robots that are just going to have an uphill battle in being placed in the world of realism because of what they transformed into originally.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Posts:
    897
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +947
    Wrroooong. Soundwave's limbs and armor lack the semi-exposed segmented vehicular look that Optimus and Arcee and others have. He is very much something more akin to the WFC games or one of those "HOW BAYFORMERS SHOULDA BEEN" fanarts you see popping up from time to time, not to mention his proportions, silhouette and what not are diving much harder into the look of the 80s cartoon than modernizing it with more dynamic and "lively" proportions. (Also lol at "matters only to you" as if it needed to be said that my opinion is mine alone, not everyone is such a sensitive wallflower that they need IMO stated before every single line of text). Look at Wheeljack's head, great and alien modernization of his g1 cartoon look, then look at Soundwave's gruesome "grab the old toy head and add more lines to it" and it's pretty clear they were aiming for something more 80s-ish with him, and frankly, it didn't work out.

    But that's irrelevant, because my point was never how good or how bad Soundwave looks, my point is that the movie uses alot of what was done before in developing it's visual style, and hell, we have the very people that worked in this movie and previous films talking about how the technology that was developed across those 10 years allowed them to produce the film's final form as it is. So someone saying that "this movie PROVES MICHAEL BAY WAS LYING TO US!!! look how they did it RIGHT THIS TIME!" is.... well. It's madness lol. We didn't even have metallic surfaces that looked good enough in 2006 to make Bumblebee's simple round arms seem realistic visually when imposed over the live action footage.
     
  9. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    8,389
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +2,002
    Not really because no wants them to have the same alternate modes... except maybe Shockwave since he was a giant Cybertronian cannon not a hand held pistol. The toy was a role play gun but he was never used that way in the fiction unlike Megatron.

    Plus Hasbro can't make them guns anymore anyway... they kinda cheated with Sixshot and Shockwave by turning it upside down, adding some detail to the handle to make it look like a control tower and calling them submarines but G1 fans can tell those are their gun modes. I think Hasbro can get away with that on them because of their sci-fi designs but turning Megatron upside down when he transforms in a real world gun isn't going to fool anyone.
     
  10. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    I think it made sense at the time for the robots to have a lot of complex moving parts because they were alien.

    I would have liked to see them look more and more like their G1 counterparts with each film like they were adapting to their environment, sort of like how in several recent cartoons, the Transformers get upgrades and start looking more and more like they did in G1.

    In a way, they did metamorph with each film, but it was a deterioration instead of an upgrade. Other than Optimus and Megatron, with each film, the Transformers just got rustier, greasier, and uglier like they were devolving.

    Bumblebee proves wholeheartedly that the G1 designs should have been used from the beginning. Sometimes style is more important than realism.

    As for that poll up there, what do you mean completely G1? To portray G1 characters in a Hollywood blockbuster, you have to have some semblance of photorealism like in Bumblebee. Do you want a live-action film with 2D cartoon characters? I'm not being mean. I'd actually pay to see a cell-shaded live-action/anime hybrid movie of Transformers.

    Or maybe you mean go old school and actually release another cartoon movie, which I'm also down for.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  11. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    8,389
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +2,002
    1. Why does complex moving parts that defy the laws of physics = alien? Alien just means from another planet... and usually with most sci-fi... far more advanced technologically than us. Defying the laws of physics doesn't make them look like advanced alien machines it just makes them look fake.

    2. How does Bumblebee prove that style is more important than realism? The Bayverse designs have always been more about style than realism, that's the whole reason why so many people hate them. The style is ugly and doesn't even look real. If anything the Bumblebee movie proves that Transformers have always been realistic to begin with. It proves that turning Transformers into walking trash piles with thousands of moving parts was not only never needed to make them look real but that it actually has the total opposite effect.

    It's just a shame that most of the movie still looks like Bayformformers and the only time we see the G1 style designs is for a single five minute scene. Plus that scene was apperently added at the last minute which is why it doesn't look fully rendered. I would love to see a full movie where every character looked that good but actually had photo realistic textures added to them instead of looking like they were ripped from a video game.

    That's the only thing that looks real about Bayformers is textures. All the rust and dirt from Bumblebee's vehicle mode actually carries over into his robot mode. Every imperfection is visible that you would actually see in the real world. Nothing is perfect. That's the only issue I have with the Cybertron scene is that everyone looks way too shiney and perfect to exist in the real world. It makes them look too much like CGI models when they don't have any imperfections.

    If I don't see any rust, dirt, scratches, or dents it's going to look like CGI but if you add these textures to the designs then suddenly they look like they're really there. Oh plus a lot of the materials are reflective to various degrees so don't forget to include those reflectitions instead of making them mate colors because again it won't look real... though the Cybertron scenes actually do include light and shadows which is about the only thing they bothered to include... which is at least better than some other CGI characters who don't even get that much right.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    You obviously have more meticulous expectations that most people.
     
  13. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    8,389
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +2,002
    Are you new to the world? I think I just have more expectations than YOU not most people. I actually have LESS expectations than most people... just look at the reviews for Green Lantern or any of the Star Wars prequels. I personally didn't think the CGI was that that bad in those movie... Well in the case of Star Wars I didn't think it was that bad at the time they were released but they haven't exactly aged well as better CGI has made them look worse by comparison.

    I wouldn't be complaining or have even noticed the lack of proper lighting and shadows on CGI Yoda if it wasn't for other movies that came latter doing a better job of making their CGI characters look like they're actually in the world simply by including those small details that the Star Wars prequels neglected.

    Other people instead of being impressed like I was were already complaining about the CGI years ahead of technology even being able to get that photo realistic.

    By the time the Hulk came out I was complaining too because by then the technology was already advanced enough to do better and they simply didn't take advantage of the technology avalible at that time. And it's largely because of that Hulk got a reboot with much more realistic CGI.

    I don't think I'm asking for more than most people when most people are demanding CGI that's way more realistic than current technology can even provide. I'm only asking for what I know they can actually do. We've already seen it in every Transformers movie since 2007... it's only the Cybertron scenes in Bumblebee that didn't do that because those scenes were rendered last minute and they didn't have the time that they normally would to add in realistic textures.
     
  14. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    Relax.
     
  15. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    8,389
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +2,002
    Dude... I'm talking about movies here... this IS relaxed. ;-)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. JohnStartop

    JohnStartop There can only be one.

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Posts:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Likes:
    +68
    Ok.
     
  17. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,106
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +484
    He wasn’t originally

    Just saying
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Yeah; not a lot of people know he was actually grey originally. It's like Megatron originally had a black helmet rather than a grey one.
     
  19. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,106
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +484
    thats not exactly a good comparison

    The black helmet was a comic book thing, and maybe 1 or 2 early toy commercials

    Megatron never had a black helmet in the cartoon
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    194
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Likes:
    +224
    Yeah, in hindsight, that was a bad analogy...