Why did TLK turn out so horrible

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Cosbydaf, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout A face you can trust! Really!

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    Given how everybody who was critical of the direction of the bayverse franchise was going immediately brought up the fact his name was attached in a big way to Batman and Robin, and then oh look Bayverse crashed and fucking burned, it can't be coincidence alone.

    Of course the crux of the argument here, lest we get driven off topic, boils down to the fact I originally said Kruger being better than Goldsmith wasn't that good given I think Goldsman could be surpassed by Uwe Boll.

    But if you want to discuss Kruger, then let's discuss Kruger. How's he been doing? Pretty goddamn poorly given his last two writing assignments since AoE were Ghost in the Shell and the Dumbo remake, both of which were box office flops. One of the most common things brought up in reviews as to why they failed? The writing. It really does suggest that in the end, even if Kruger had stayed on for TLK, the end result would more or less be the same since Bay and Lorenzo had more of a hand with the script really being parts of a bunch of different scripts by a bunch of different writers, so the amount of contribution or influence Kruger would have had at all is in question.
     
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  2. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    Why else would he get attached to Titans then?
    Look, B & R is bad no doubt. But unlike the stuff Uwe Boll put out, it's a funny and puny watch.

    So chill...
    Well of course you had to reply to a little comment first before everything else.

    And also,Goldsmith?

    Ghost in the Shell had more to do with the controversy of Scarlett Johansson being cast as Major aka Motoko Kusanagi in the anime or manga. Plus Krugeur I believe was one of the later writers brought on.

    If Dumbo failed then why did movies like Lion King succeed then if they're hypotheically on the same level of writing?
     
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  3. sevenlima

    sevenlima Well-Known Member

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    But he could have make a better job compared to Goldsman.
     
  4. Sablebot

    Sablebot #iposttomakeyouthinknotdebate

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    True-and I can think of another 2 words (or is it 1, LOL!!!!) that can describe TLK-but I won't derail this thread, LOL!!!!;) :ev: :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol 
     
  5. Appleseed

    Appleseed Well-Known Member

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    Because they are wrongly introduce Unicron and mess up with King Arthur story into Transformers, what a silly idea that was.. And the robots battle sequences is too short, Michael Bay just like lazy to make longer version of robot action already, he just focus more on Human and unnecessary earth destruction. That's why the movie fail. I meant Audiences mainly want to watch robots on robots action but turn out like this..
     
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  6. ImAWalkingCorpse

    ImAWalkingCorpse Well-Known Member

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    Because it looked like no one cared. I fell asleep in the theater watching it.
     
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  7. Stormragetron

    Stormragetron Well-Known Member

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    after enduring Avengers Endgame i now consider The Last Knight to be a good movie and one that seems to make sense ......
    .... thank you MCU !!
     
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  8. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    Because unlike most modern blockbusters, Michael Bay has no shooting discipline. Because he got together these writers rooms to write scripts, and while shooting decided to film the scenes he liked from all of them, and assemble the movie in the editing room.

    The best received Transformers movies - the first and Dark of the Moon (3) - also happen to be by far the most cohesively scripted and planned. Michael Bay did not deviate (much) from what was planned before shooting more than your typical blockbuster (which always involves rewriting and reshooting scenes). RotF was a result of the Writers strike and was cobbled together. AoE and TLK are both "Michael Bay recieves scripts that writing team makes, disregards, makes own story".

    This is where the disjointed concept and vanishing, and mid-story all new MacGuffins come from. Because you're watching two, even three movies in one. AoE, for example, was believed to be one half a "dinosaur and ancient transformer" lore heavy story, and one half humans learn how to make Transformers of their own story. TLK melded a King Arthur-centric story, with a Unicron story, with a follow up to AoE / Ancient Transformer story.

    People always say "why can't Transformers movies be as good as Avengers movies". The problem isn't Michael Bay's considerable skills as a director. The problem is that, unlike the MCU directors who stick pretty close to the story /script they are handed and have the original writers re-write as needed, Bay has always had a freer and and just bolted all the different ideas and scenes and characters he liked together, and figured it out in editing.

    Bumblebee was recieved far better in large part because Travis Knight, either by his own decision or under direction of the producers, did NOT do that, and instead stuck to the shooting script. The biggest changes were when they added on the "Cybertron story" stuff and moved the movie away from being a Bayverse prequel and into a reboot. Regardless of Knights involvement in future TF movies or not, they should all be better because most directors don't make frankenstein monster movies like Bay does. Largely because its expensive. Which is probably something that caught up with bay after TLK.

    I maintain you could make one hell of a fan edit of TLK and make a pretty good Transformer movie out of it. It would be about 70 minutes long, but the fundamentals are there.
     
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  9. Rodimal Rodimus

    Rodimal Rodimus Agent of Unit:E

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    Now that I gotta see.
     
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  10. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    My idea for it is that Autobots and Decepticons rain down on Earth on a daily basis to fight their grudge matches in human towns and cities is taking the world to the brink of things just falling apart. The constant barrage of it happening, every single day, the random human collateral casualties resulting from it, the mass (and regular) infrastructure damage, and the inability to stop it from happening, has all pushed human civilization to the brink. I got kind of a creeping dystopia vibe from the start of TLK... like that human race was barely holding it together as aliens fight their war basically on top of them, and there isn't much we can do about it. I think that should be the central push of the movie.

    I think if you recut TLK and move parts around and eliminate a lot of the Aurthurian legend plot, you could make something to this effect.
     
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  11. fschuler

    fschuler Post Count Inflated With Hot Air TFW2005 Supporter

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    For me, it was the character dialogue (both humans and bots) that really held this movie back the most. It was...and I don’t use this word lightly...“wetalldid”.
     
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  12. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Kruger also wrote The Ring and Arlington Road; both of which are very good. With Ghost In The Shell, he wrote it with two other people - one of whom was the guy who wrote Street Kings and Spectrals (both of which suck). It was also directed by the guy who directed Snow White and the Huntsman (which also sucked); it was doomed from the word "go". Dumbo was hampered because the higher-ups insisted on giving it a preachy, patronizing animal rights message; which most audiences loathed.

    If Kruger had stayed, we would not have had the writer's room and the haphazard jumble of ideas that became the final film. We may not have had a good film or a successful one (with Bay fatigue, everybody would have probably went to see Wonder Woman and Spiderman: Homecoming instead anyway), but we might have gotten a more coherent one.
     
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  13. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    I would say AOE has a very cohesive plot - the "humans make their own Transformers" storyline feeds into the "Transformers' creators" story. There is also only one credited screenwriter for AOE; in fact, it's the same guy who wrote DOTM.

    Basically, the most cohesively plotted and scripted TF movies are when there are 1-2 writers doing the script, rather than "three stories cobbled together in a writer's room" or "three guys trying to get a script done as quick as possible in the middle of a writer's strike"

    Also, MCU directors get heavily involved in the script/story of their films; some even write the script themselves.
     
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  14. Wheeljack84

    Wheeljack84 Well-Known Member

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    Goldsman knows a lot of people and he's good at getting people to do favors for him. Look at Winter's Tale, one of the worst movies I have ever seen.
     
  15. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    And that was born out of the fact that there was no inherent audience appeal in an anime that not many people outside Japan know much about. The studio panicked and insisted they cast a big star.

    The Lion King remake succeeded (despite the fact it really didn't deserve to) because it was a remake of what a lot of people consider to be the greatest animated movie ever to be made and a film fondly remembered by many late '90s/early 2000's kids. It had the inherent nostalgia advantage.
     
  16. sevenlima

    sevenlima Well-Known Member

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    A man called Goldsman.