Of all the murderous things Prime did in these movies, this is the one that bothered me the most.

Sentinel is on the ground, completely helpless and Optimus just brutally executes him.

It felt so... unOptimus.

A way you could've made it work is that maybe Sentinel lunges at Optimus which forces Optimus to have to put him down.

 

Because movie Prime is edgy.

Remember that G2 cover with Optimus where it's like "This is NOT Your fathers Autobot..!", well movie Prime is basically that but without a hint of irony.

 

I don't know, but he got what he deserved.

 

Piece of shit had it coming.

That's just a way to have your cake and eat it too, I actually respect the writers more for not taking such an obvious copout.

 

Sentinel was a traitor that was responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents and tried to enslave an entire species.

Fuck 'em.

 

Don’t know and don’t care. Sure, G1 Prime was more noble and wouldn’t have murdered him like that but clearly Bayverse Prime is not G1 Prime. He literally ripped through The Fallen’s chest and crushed his spark Mortal Kombat style. Didn’t bother me one bit. He just simply kills a tad more brutally in the films.

 

Sentinel deserved to die and wasn't going to make it out of the film alive.

That said, Optimus pointblank executing him is probably the one 'murder Prime' moment that I can understand the argument for being over the line. I get Optimus is totally betrayed and despondent, but it comes off as a bit *too* cold and grim.

The easy solution would have been for Sentinel to have just bled out from his Megatron-inflicted wounds. The dialogue could have been exactly the same too, and you still could have gotten that cold emotion from Optimus in not granting Sentinel forgiveness in his dying moments.

The original novel/comic ending of Prime and Megatron legitimately teaming up to fight Sentinel and turning his rust gun on him in the heat of battle was also one that would have been really cool to see on screen.

 

Honestly to answer your question, the way the movies handled Optimus was nothing short of a pure bewildering mess.

The fact he spouts about freedom yet brutally executes his enemies with no semblance of mercy and in the most barbaric way is stupid. Especially against Sentinel who already lost or a Megatron who wanted a truce.

I also don't get some people's reasoning for it either, Sentinel did betray them but still any creative worth their salt knows Optimus' sense of justice, mercy and peaceful side is an important aspect of the character. We've had shows that do this well.

Also it isn't even that the films wanted to do something different, challenge our perception and breakdown the character through some unique arc or that the war has taken a toll on him. Since he barely has a character, they never explore it nor does he go through any self reflection or changes. Shows like Animated and Earthspark and even Armada did this better.

 

Okay, two things that I highlighted in your post.

First thing, Megatron was not offering a sincere truce. There is enough there in both words and actions to show that he is not at all sincere.

Second, Sentinel did more than betray. He gave the order to seal off Chicago and, along with Megatron, is responsible for it's destruction and the deaths of thousands of innocent people. Optimus tried pleading with Sentinel several times but only ever got a lecture or attempted murder in return. Oh, lets also not forget that he wanted to enslave an entire species.

 

See, that's the thing.

Optimus' descent into madness and radicalization could've made for an interesting character arc and it's the only thing that feels consistent in these movies. But knowing Bay, I highly doubt it was intentional.

 

I've seen that reasoning before and it never works because nothing about Megatrons offer of truce showed he was going to backstab Optimus, especially since the movies never once tried to give Megatron any character or anything compelling for him to suddenly show he has the capacity to be deceptive.

Even the novelisation and the original ending for Dark of the Moon had Megatron genuinely want a truce. That works more than just Optimus murdering the guy who saved him.

Yes those are all awful things Sentinel and the Decepticons did no denying that and they deserve to be punished and face justice but it doesn't in any way make Optimus' choice and way to execute him less barbaric and nonsensical.

Sentinel could've succumb to his wounds or have the Autobots detain him and make him face justice. Something more interesting. Transformers Animateds finale was somewhat similar. It had Megatron try to destroy all of Detroit, enslave Earth, one of the Autobots die in the process. Megatron was on the ground defeated, all Optimus did was destroy his fusion cannon, cuff him and brought him to Cybertron to face justice. (While yes he would've escaped in a potential season 4 but is still more in line with Optimus' character and more interesting)

 

It certainly did when it happened to Primal in Beast Machines.

 

Megatron's motivations make no sense.

In the original film, he just wants the AllSpark for himself.

In Dark of the Moon, he wants to save Cybertron even though... he didn't really seem to care that he was trying to claim the thing that was keeping the planet alive.

 

Maybe only the innocent deserve freedom.

 

Now that you mention is, as controversial as Beast Machines was. How it handled Primal and his arc was far more interesting and well thought at and intentional. It's obvious the movies never thought of that angle and it usually takes a writer who's more...well better at their job and with more tact to handle it. Hence why Marty Isenberg still did a decent job.

 

Uh yes it does work lmao. Megatron runs in and yells out "This is MY planet!" just before this. That alone shows that he wasn't being noble or genuinely saving Optimus' life, it was by accident at best. Plus his whole tone and demeanor shows it. He beat one Prime that was apparently supplanting hm as leader and had another Prime, his archrival, down and missing an arm.

People love to bring up the novel or comic ending but that only goes so far. Yes, it was the original intention but it was changed and so was the context around it. In those, we have some bits of inner monologue with Megatron and he is far more genuinely tired of the war. He also runs in and actually teams up with Optimus to take down Sentinel and is genuinely sincere with a truce to the point of dropping to his knees. None of that is in the film. Instead he runs in, yells that Earth is his to rule, and single-handedly beats Sentinel. Similar situations but far different in both outcome and context.

It is neither barbaric or nonsensical. Sentinel had his chance, multiple in fact, to change and he did not and tried defending his actions all the way until he died. You can say all you want about it being dumb or whatever but it was the right move by Optimus. The punishment for treason is death, let alone the murder of thousands or attempted enslavement of an entire race. If this actually happened, nobody would have a problem with Sentinel being killed.

I personally don't really care what Animated did since that is a different continuity, different context, and different versions of characters altogether.

 

Still come across as very poorly thought out when your hero in a movie, who spouts freedom and justice is willing to commit a war crime.

It doesn't work because Megatrons intentions and motives and character in the movie is either paper thin, non existent or changes more often than not. Ok he screams it's his planet, that doesn't even change the fact he obviously saved Primes life and still proposes a truce to him and Optimus' only reaction is decapitation. That's still the problem, the movies were so unimaginative and predictable they just have Optimus kill him instead of going for a more unique ending.

People bring up the novel and original ending because it shows it was a much better idea for an ending that actually suits Optimus and not just another "kill the villain barbarically and win" ending all 5 movies loved doing.

Also it's both barbaric and nonsensical. Also it's not the right move by Optimus because it still boils down to execution and humiliating his enemy while they're already defeated. A consistent problem the films had. At this stage it's just the Punisher but a red and blue robot.

Why I bring up Animated because while it's a different continuity etc. It shows a better and more interesting way, it's actually well written by someone who knows what they're doing without betraying the core aspect of Optimus' character yet do something new.

I personally feel the movies didn't capture Optimus' heart, his sense of justice nor anything interesting about him. They just perpetuated the stoic uncharismatic bore version and turned him into the very thing Cullen and his brother didn't like, loud, violent and tough Hollywood action heroes. Not someone strong enough to be gentle etc.

Look you and I aren't going to agree here so to each their own and agree to disagree.

 

Yeah we can agree to disagree. Especially since we seem to be arguing from two different points of view; me arguing whats in the movies themselves and you arguing outside of them.

 

I'm over Murder Prime arguments because, realistically, nobody working on the movies except for Peter Cullen even realized what they were doing. Murder Prime is not an intentional attempt to add depth or nuance to the character, it's just an accident. The filmmakers probably just wanted Optimus to be cool and violent in the fight scenes, but they never thought about how that would impact the rest of his character. That's why, outside of the fight scenes, he still acts like Optimus should; he's wise, compassionate, whatever. The reason he screams shit like "give me your face!" and "I'll kill you all!" in battle is because it's superficially cool. Mindless spectacle, which is exactly what the Bay movies are known for.

Before anyone brings up Age of Extinction, Optimus' cynicism in that movie is clearly a result of humanity betraying them after DotM. The argument that it's really the state of his mind after millennia of civil war is just disingenuous.

Now, to actually address Sentinel's execution. It's a bit fucked up, yeah. Executing people in the street like that is what the mafia does, not what Optimus Prime should do! The reason it's in the movie, aside from making Optimus cooler, is just to quickly tie things up. That's also why Megatron dies in like three seconds; "the movie is over, wrap it up." It's a narrative convenience, not a character moment.

People who object to this aren't arguing that Sentinel shouldn't have died, or that he shouldn't have been punished. If you want to pretend like that's the case, that people who object to fucking war crimes are really just on the side of evil-doers, then I don't know what to tell you.

There's also the fact that Sentinel Prime is not a real person. It's incredible how, not even a page into this thread, so many people say, "Sentinel is responsible for the genocide of an entire species!" or whatever. He's not real. Nobody was ever hurt by a Decepticon scheme, and the amount of people who miss the forest for the trees is quite frankly astounding to me. Murder Prime too frequently delves into a real, ethical debate, and if you want to have that debate, that's fine. But that's not really the problem here. No, it's all just a matter of storytelling and characterization. For the character of Optimus Prime to execute Sentinel Prime in cold blood is just wrong.

We're talking about Optimus Prime here, his entire personality is built around the fact that he's compassionate to a fault. Per Budiansky, "if he were more ruthless, he would be a more effective military commander, but then he wouldn't be Optimus Prime." That's not to say that Optimus shouldn't kill, but the problem with Optimus in these movies more broadly is the seeming glee he takes in it, the over-the-top, Mortal Kombat-style executions he indulges in. His whole thing is compassion, why is he dismembering people while snarling like a monster? That's not how soldiers act, that's how war criminals and sadists act.

Then there's Sentinel Prime. Effortlessly and thoughtlessly executing Sentinel Prime is not something Optimus Prime would ever do. Saying "this isn't G1 Optimus" is irrelevant, since he's still meant to be Optimus Prime. Sunbow Optimus wouldn't do it, Marvel Optimus wouldn't do it, RiD01 Optimus wouldn't do it, UT Optimus wouldn't do it even at his darkest, Animated Optimus wouldn't do it, Aligned Optimus wouldn't do it. Optimus Prime wouldn't do it. IDW1 Optimus Prime actually does something similar, but you know why it works? Because it's a decision, because it's a character moment. Optimus making the decision to execute someone like that isn't something he just does, he'd question and doubt himself, and he'd certainly feel conflicted about it. He wouldn't just do it.

Really, Last Stand of the Wreckers said it best: "They deserved to die, but that didn't give you the right to kill them."