Why A Transformers Cinematic Universe Is A Bad Idea

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by agent j 15, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    the point was now they can use lesser known characters as their antagonists instead of megatron and the regulars over and over


    Cybertron is Primus's physical form, but your ignoring this metaphysical one


    yeah and?


    your the one sayingg "all the cool stuff is gone" which isn't true.
     
  2. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    OP you have some valid points and I agree for the most part.

    I kind of hate to say this but I kind of hope they experience an Amazing Spider-Man 2 movie soon...I'd like them to re-evaluate everything.
     
  3. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    The Streisand Effect pretty much guarantees the governments can't do this.

    They can if there is a communications black out, if people can't access the internet and the government contains the area. Sure there were a few people that slipped out, but the could easily be dismissed as conspiracy nuts.

    Actually, he still kinda failed at that - he never successfully managed to keep them permanently separated because he would end up breaking cover, otherwise.

    Regardless, it doesn't matter. It's not a plot hole.

    How did NEST get disbanded when it's clearly functioning as usual in DOTM?

    So disbanded wasn't quite the right word. They were deactivated as a unit, the government suit clearly says they are. After the victory in Egypt the order is obviously canceled.

    There's literally no reason why they didn't just kill The Fallen over the convoluted failure of an alternative they came up with - I mean, excluding the comics it's never explained where The Fallen has been this whole damn time.

    Maybe they didn't want to kill a fellow Prime? Once again, how is this a plot hole?


    As of DOTM it is. He calls his teleporting a "spacebridge." Given how a completely separate collection of pillars is also called a spacebridge in DOTM and requires Sentiel's exclusive operation, that's two absolutely different things using the exact same name.

    This is a minor nitpick at best, since they don't look the same and they aren't really even used the same way. Jetfire uses his to get from one place on Earth to another. Sentinel Prime uses his to travel across actual space.

    So where did the Decepticon reinforcements that visibly smash into the desert (including CloneCrusher) come from, then?

    How is the relevant?

    Not to mention DOTM's plot necessitates that Soundwave and the Moon Decepticons have been active since the early 70's. Or the problem with how Megatron apparently planned two completely seperate long-term operations revolving around the use of the Matrix of Leadership that had polar opposite goals: if The Fallen had won, humanity would be dead. If Sentinel Prime had won, humanity would be the slave labor force rebuilding their planet - which apparently was chosen specifically because of its proximity to the Sun (which wouldn't exist if The Fallen had won, either)


    They don't need to be the same goup of Decepticons at all. Soundwave, Blackout, and Bonecrusher could have done all the grouping of the pillars. Or the moon army could have gathered the pillars and then went inactive as a reserve. DoTM shows they were completely burried. They had been there for a while inactive. Also, the sun harvester plan was the Fallen's and the Space Bridge Plan was Megatron's.

    That kind of glaring weakness invalidates the entire point of making those knock-offs, though, doesn't it? Like, in the first film they briefly mentioned that high-heat SABOT incendiary rounds were effective against Cybertronians, as was cold later on when S7 captured Bumblebee.

    A can of liquid nitrogen or some AXE body spray + a lighter would be enough to defeat the CW bots if outright destruction of the individual components is a factor - just one block missing would cause the whole thing to fail.


    Like I said, I don't know. I certainly didn't say destroying just one block would do it. It is reasonable to think that if an amount of the blocks were destroyed there would not be enough components to reform into an effective form, or operate with enough computing capacity to function. Anyway, it's not like AoE is the only movie ever made where the bad guys have a glaring weakness in their tech.

    Judging from how everybody else was acting, Sam looked to be at death's door right before he goes and talks to dead alien robot people. And then the Matrix magically reforms itself from dust.

    There is the keyword right there, LOOKED. They were in the field, with limited medical equipment. Looking dead and actually being dead are two different things. I'm not disputing that he wouldn't have died, but if the Primes can keep him from dying, they can damn well appear to him as a vision in his subconscious mind if they want.

    - The way the movie acted, it was like he couldn't get a job at a McDonalds or something else with high employee turnover/refreshing rates.

    No, Sam straight up says he wants a job that matters. He was turned down the mail room job until Malkovitch talked him out of it.

    And he still got a shitty car out of that deal?

    He also got a free ivy league education out of the deal too.

    How advanced do you think CW's tech needs to be if Energon detection equipment already existed as of ROTF?

    Did you see them using any of that equipment? It's not a plot hole if they are not using the equipment.

    They still could have been more efficient about the matter - they just had to fake their deaths, not actually be on the ship (which is sorta what they did anyway by hiding in the empty booster stage rocket). They could have even skipped being launched into space entirely by exiting through a side door or something and launching the entire spaceship + booster combination without anything actually aboard it. If they managed to cross 2,000 miles+ (they landed in the ocean so it was a far longer distance) without detection, they could've just as easily hidden in a large bunker under the launch complex or something and skipped all the trouble.

    Maybe?
     
  4. general saberwi

    general saberwi legoformer

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    I'd have to agree, if not with the plot holes with the fact that the movie was not designed to be a cinematic universe, the terrible quality, and the fact that they've gotten rid of a lot of cool stuff. Also, the first movie has a giant, and so far unmentioned, gaping plot hole. Why the fuck would they take the Allspark, an alien artifact of immense power that can transform technology into murderous robots, which is being pursued by equally murderous big robots, into a major population center? A much smarter thing would be to take it out into the middle of the desert, call for backup, and then snipe the Decepticons as they approach. Also, just what were they planning on doing with the Allspark by putting it on a helicopter? That would mean only temporarily taking it away from the Decepticons, who would catch up right away given that half of them can fly, and moving it away from the one group of people that could defend it, the Autobots. Finally, why do some of the flying Decepticons not attack the Autobots from the air?

    Well, plot holes aside, I feel that there is room for a cinematic universe, but it would have to be a reboot that was not just a rehash of the first movie. I've actually got an idea for how this would work, outlined below:

    We start the story with Henry Witwicky, or Spike to his friends, who is just another teenager working his first job at his dad's junkyard, Witwicky and Sons Auto Recycling. One day, his dad, Ronald "Sparkplug" Witwicky, brings in a beat up 1995 Subaru Impreza WRX, a white one with unusual red and green racing stripes. Spike asks if he can have it, and his father says yes, on the condition that he can get it to start, as Sparkplug is kind of suspicious of the condition of the engine. Naturally, Spike is able to start it, and afterward he and his buddy Chip Chase decide to start cleaning it out. While doing so, the two discover multiple spent shell casings(!), and a set of Washington vanity plates, reading "WHLJCK", as well as a strange logo under all the dirt on the steering wheel. Later, after a possible date with Carly, Spike wakes up in the middle of the night, to some noise in the garage. He investigates, and finds that his car has turned out to be the Autobot scientist and tinkerer Wheeljack, who got bored and decided to make stuff. Spike is a little bit afraid, but then Wheeljack addresses him, as he had detected the human. He tells Spike to not be afraid, and talk to him. Shortly afterward, Sparkplug investigates too, and finds Wheeljack. He's initially suspicious, but eventually listens to Wheeljack's story.

    Like in the original movie, a military base in the Middle East is attacked, and one of the survivors is Major William Lennox, who will become more important later. However, the attacker is not Blackout, but Kaon, of the Decepticon Justice Division, who are searching for their lost leader. Kaon infiltrates by turning into a truck mounted radar unit, specifically a German COBRA counterbattery unit.
    [​IMG]

    I envision Kaon as being the one member who has an Earth mode, in addition to his electric chair mode. He also has that mutant turbofox thing as a partner, in this case called Overbite, who does not talk, but snarls at everything. Overbite also does not have a robot mode, instead turning into a little drone vehicle, I'm not too sure whether it would be a wheeled vehicle, or a flyer, but regardless of that, he pursues the surviving soldiers in his beast mode. That sequence is much the same as it is in the first movie, except that Overbite flees after the AC-130 shows up, summoned by Kaon.

    There is also a scene on Air Force One, much like the original, except the Decepticon Frenzy is reporting to is Soundwave, not Barricade. Soundwave transforms into a customized police truck, and has a mode with sonic cannons.

    Meanwhile, after telling the Witwickys about what he is looking for in this case the Key to Vector Sigma, Spike mentions seeing the Cybertronian written language in some newspaper articles about his great grandfather, and brings them to show Wheeljack, along with a pair of glasses. Upon seeing the glasses, Wheeljack can see immediately that there is a set of coordinates etched on the glasses, and wishes to head there. Both Spike and Sparkplug want to come along, but Wheeljack says no, saying it would be dangerous. At that point, Soundwave has found them, and attacks. Wheeljack says more or less never mind and flees, with Spike and his father. Eventually, Wheeljack and company end up in a deserted warehouse, apparently cornered by Soundwave. Wheeljack fights back, but is on the losing side, if not for the fact that Wheeljack had called for backup. Bumblebee and Hound show up, but that is not the reason shows up. The real reason is that the area is quickly swarming with Sector Seven agents, who try to, but fail, to capture Soundwave. The 3 Autobots and 2 humans are then interrogated by Agent Seymour Simmons, who is rather disgruntled and done with this alien crap. But, one of the other agents tells him to step back. This is Dr. Josie Beller, the head of S7's NBE project. One of the trucks in the unit then transforms, into a robot named Landmine. Dr. Beller talks about her research, and requests that the Autobots comply, to avoid an interplanetary incident. They do, but Wheeljack mentions that they have an actual leader.

    Later, the group arrives at an S7 facility, after which the rest of the Autobots arrive. Discussions are made, and there are plans to contact Defense Secretary Keller. However, at that point, a virus planted by Kaon cripples communications, and it is determined that the best course of action is to head to where the Key is being kept, in the Hoover dam.

    After arriving at the Hoover Dam, the group only has a little bit of time before the DJD arrives. In addition to the 5 DJD members, the other Decepticons are Soundwave, Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp, as well as Soundwave's minions. The Autobots have Optimus Prime, Jazz, Wheeljack, Hound, Bumblebee, Landmine, and Ironhide. Knowing the Hoover Dam facility is not defensible, tells the group to evacuate, although she does not do so herself. Optimus also stays behind, and faces off against Tarn at the top of the dam. Tarn is able to incapacitate Prime by using an attack called "Vox Terribilis", or Terrible Voice, to start a landslide that seemingly crushes Optimus. The other group of Autobots, meanwhile, arrive at Nellis Air Force Base, which is where they hope to get help. Initial looses are heavy, until Spike and Wheeljack try to use the Key on some Aircraft, creating the Aerialbots. While the new bots are more matched against the Starscream and his jets, not even combining into Superion is enough to fight against the DJD. Tarn shoots Superion in the face, using Vos in gun mode, causing the combiner to separate into his component parts. At this point, Optimus, thanks to Dr. Beller and the remaining staff at the Hoover Dam facility, is dug out, and given an upgrade, in the form of the Apex Armor, which was lost when the Key was sent into space. Back with the other Autobots, things are looking grim, at which point Optimus Prime arrives, and stomps the DJD into the ground, all the while blasting Stan Bush's "The Touch". Starscream and the Seekers flee, and all is well, apparently.

    But, not so. Tarn and the DJD are already preparing to free Megatron, from his prison at an S7 facility in Alaska.

    And then, roll credits. I think this is a good first movie, with some polishing.
     
  5. Jus09

    Jus09 Well-Known Member

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    I'd care, except they didn't establish the universe until the fourth movie. Hence it feels less like 'We're expanding our property's continuity and fleshing out it's universe' and more like 'Shit makes money, yo.'
     
  6. Kraken

    Kraken Is a vegiesaurus, Lex. Veteran

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    I don't think anything the OP has listed would have any effect on the relevance of an expanded Universe. The films didn't start as one? So what? It starts now. They've already gotten rid of lots of cool stuff? Just as well the Transformers multiverse has a shit tonne of more cool stuff to draw from. A random list of 'plot holes' and/or complaints from the first films? Absolutely meaningless. Hasbro Studios don't care, they just want money? Suprisingly, a good product will earn even more money!
     
  7. tokuformers

    tokuformers Well-Known Member

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    in my opinion the transformers universe is sucks in every way at all levels. in any type of media.
    the truth is that transformers is fucked in all medias in every way.
    transformers hasbro's largest brand (in my opinion) is fucked in all medias in every way.
    transformers is being treated as a small franchise that has no potential to be great.
    transformers is being treated and manipulated as a small franchise that has no potential and reached 1 year ago.
    Transformers is a big franchise with infinite potential.
    I do not know if it is something planned or incompetence.
    is it hard to invest in the right potential that tansformers universe have? in any type of media?
     
  8. MnemonicSyntax

    MnemonicSyntax You know what happens to Messiahs, don't you?

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    Your signature. :lol 
     
  9. AlexMalex

    AlexMalex That one guy.

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    That article was awesome. I couldn't have said it better myself. Hey agent j 15, you have some good opinions, plus your funny and stuff. Go start a youtube channel or something. I'm serious. I would totally watch that shit.
     
  10. ARCTrooperAlpha

    ARCTrooperAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Lol! Can I have your line about the plot having more holes than Ratchet's corpse?
     
  11. agent j 15

    agent j 15 poopity-scoop

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    Since most of the movies don't focus much on the history of the characters, there's a lot of free room to play around - barring a (likely inevitable) reboot, this could actually be a step in the right direction. Granted, several of those movies would be dedicated to filling the plot holes, but that still shows effort.

    I agree, to an extent. I think just suddenly rebooting it would be a bad idea...at the very least, give Bay and Kruger a chance to finish the story they started, even if it is bad.

    Couldn't agree more. The whole "Expanded Universe" thing just feels like Hasbro's half assed attempts at a cash grab.

    *cracks knuckles, hovers fingers over keyboard*

    An expanded universe, done correctly, can't just start right in the middle. Sure, nothings stopping them, but that means that since they've already treaded over some territory and killed off certain characters, we won't see them again unless they pull off a retcon that people will bitch about.

    Yeah, it's got some more cool stuff, but the classic characters, like Ratchet and Sideswipe, and some pretty major plot devices (like THEIR ENTIRE FUCKING PLANET) are gone, which creatively limits the writers, and probably angers a lot of hardcore fans.

    Like hell they are. If the universe they're trying to expand doesn't operate on any real logic, what's the point of expanding them? If the writers don't care to make sure the story makes sense (aka the entire fucking job of a writer), then they sure as hell don' care how good the finished product is.

    I agree, but if that's the case, then they should probably try to make one.

    *drops mic*

    Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed it XD I actually have a YouTube, but I rarely ever post anything aside from some smartass comments.
     
  12. agent j 15

    agent j 15 poopity-scoop

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    Be my guest fam XD feel free to substitute Leadfoot or Sideswipe as you please.
     
  13. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Their planet is not important, they could introduced colony worlds, and the allspark can ether be replaced via any other macguffin, Ratchet and Sideswipe really? their are a hundred different bots that serve the same role. Hell Crosshairs is already more interesting then ether of them.
     
  14. eagc7

    eagc7 TF Movieverse fan

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    There was a plot point that was cut from the movie, that there was an organization that would've taken care of covering up every tf activity, there was even casting call for people to play as agents of that organization, the only surviving trait is on the prequel comics

    as some said, she's meant to be a spy.

    they dont know that the shard could've done, none of them saw the decepticons using it on Megatron, so they had no way of knowing it could revive a dead tf. (Jetfire wasnt dead btw before ya use as an ex)

    In the movieverse Seekers are meant to find stars and such, so spacebridge is handy for them.
     
  15. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    she wouldn't be a good spy if it was easy to tell

    he has access to space bridge tech he says as much

    they were on the run and had no access to optimus, plus if you remember they had to kill another decepticon before they could revive megatron.


    I mean seriously, most of these "plot holes" could be resolved by simply paying attention and putting 2 and 2 together
     
  16. Noideaforaname

    Noideaforaname Pico, let's go up to Zuma

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    I think more than anything the fact that all Transformers films will be fairly similar to each other would hurt the idea of a cinematic universe the most. With Marvel, Thor is a totally different type of movie from Captain America, and both of those are totally different from Guardians of the Galaxy, and those from Iron Man, and so on. But every single Transformers film is going to involve vehicle-robots fighting other vehicle-robots -- and that idea is already loosing steam.
     
  17. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    this is the most valid argument against the idea i think.


    But i think it could maybe be done, Make a beast wars movie, tie in GI Joe and maybe jem (for the lulz) could be done.
     
  18. CKPRIME

    CKPRIME Banned

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    I don't really see how that would be a problem with the right creative team behind it, since you can boil the MCU down to the exact same thing. Every single Marvel movie involves humanoids fighting other humanoids.
     
  19. FanimusMaximus

    FanimusMaximus Kuphead

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    OP you don't get it, Michael Bay is as such:

    [​IMG]

    We are literally peasants throwing rocks at giant.
     
  20. Smashs

    Smashs Internet: Pure Truth Moderator

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