Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MegaMoonMan, Feb 3, 2008.
How about we all agree that we have different opinions and leave it at that?
Sounds good to me.
Accept the NFL and most of the news organizations investigating it says that it *IS* prevalent elsewhere. Bryant Gumbel did a great piece on HBO Real Sports about it.
There are loads of reports.
New York, Miami, Oakland, this is not "my own area", it is happening all over.
It is dangerous enough that I won't take a child there. And probably not even a Teenager. That is my choice. It didn't used to be like this but you can't pretend it doesn't happen. It is reaching a breaking point in many locations and we are going to see more and more reactions to the situation.
I've yet to see a fight break out at a Bengals game. Or a Colts game, or Saints. So apparently it's not everywhere yet. Not saying it never happens, but to damn the whole sport because of a recent rise in occurances is, IMHO, being unfair.
Even accepting all of that, you still haven't answered my first question.
I'm not asking whether you would take a child with you, or anyone else for that matter. I'm asking why do you personally still attend games when you know behavior like that occurs there frequently?
If it is such a problem for you, why not avoid it? I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong, nor am I saying whether you should go to the games or not. I'm just curious as to why you complain about it and still choose to participate. You can always watch the games on TV and avoid the issue.
Color me curious.
I do avoid a lot of what I can. I avoid the parking lots to not participate in the tailgating that is getting out of control. I keep myself sober and under control so I don't get pulled into incidents. I am also 6 foot 6 and male which means the chances of me being sexually assaulted or picked on is very low.
I went to the raiders game at Fex EX with a friend who had season tickets and one of the people had let some raiders fans borrow their tickets. They were screaming profanities and sexual crude remarks at all the people in our section. We ended up leaving because of it. It made it not an enjoyable experience because others couldn't control themselves.
Because I disagree what happens at the NFL games, something widely documented and known by the NFL itself doesn't mean that the only thing I can do is Boycott the games. I can still hope that they will do something about it. I think Breathalizing patrons before entering the stadium and barring publicly drunk people from entering the stadium a good start. And I think giving out DUIs to those driving out of the parking lot is another good attempt.
Please don't play naive and pretend it doesn't happen. The NFL knows it does and they are upset that their goal of being "American pastime" is suffering because of it.
Edit: here is another article:
That is a great Idea, I am glad they are doing it. And here is a perfect example of the crap that goes on.
Bingo. That is kinda what this threade is about, although I have gotten use to the idea of hypocrisy on here from time to time. I understand the purpose of the threade, but it turned into something else. See KA's comments.
The thread wasn't supposed to be about hating on anybody for what they like - it was just supposed to see how many non-football fans we have. Quite a few, apparently.
It skewed off tangent a bit, and I'll admit I helped, but that wasn't the original purpose.
I do think it's funny that football fans came in and gave people shit about NOT liking football, when the non-fans don't seem to go into the football threads and give THEM shit. Maybe they do, I don't know, I never go in those threads.
Wasn't talking about your post or your OP...and if you look back at my first post in this threade you will see I posted about the discussion of athletes vs non-athletes, and said nothing negative about anyone not liking football.
I certainly understand your first post, and thought it was a good idea for a threade, and didn't comment until the threade went waaaaay off on a tangent.
Lol SRS BUSINESS!
The green-haired boy/girl is right. PHEER!
First off, my apologies to MMM. Never meant to contribute to the derailing of a thread.
Once again, you have avoided my question. I didn't ask what you do to cope with the problems, or how you attempt to avoid them once at the game, or whether you are a candidate for being victimized by them or not.
I asked you why you still go when you know that this could happen? Since I don't really care anymore, I'll wager a guess: you still like football, even with the issues that some fans bring to the game. I could be wrong, but I have yet to see a legitimate answer to my question.
Unfortunately, there are jerks like this in almost every sports fan base. Sad to hear that they were Raiders fans, as I am a fan of the Raiders myself and do not act that way at any sporting event, NFL or otherwise.
Did you also happen to catch one of the reasons why these incidents are more common in the NFL than other sports? The sheer number of people attending these games. Obviously, the more people that show up, the more likely some of them will be idiots and troublemakers.
I would re-read my posts if I were you. At what point have I ever denied the fact that situations like this occur? I'm not being naive at all. What I am saying is that it doesn't happen all the time, nor does it happen at every single NFL game.
Again, given the number of people in attendance, it is hard for anyone to truly know everything that happens at an NFL game. We only know of these incidents because they were reported on or we saw them with our own eyes. At the same time you might see some people acting like idiots, while somewhere else I see good friends and good times. We could even be at the same game. You never know.
Do you take into account the times where you didn't see any crude behavior? Or has every memory you have of NFL games been overshadowed by the incidents you've witnessed?
I agree, it is a great idea. This, along with the other measures the NFL is pursuing, is a good way to help ensure that people conduct themselves in a polite manner while at a game. Is it enough? Only time will tell.
Just because I go to the games because I can handle the profanity and risks and public drunkenness doesn't mean that I can't be upset about it. It also means I can't take children or my Girlfriend with me for the most part.
What do you define as legitimate for an answer?
I go to football games because I can still handle/avoid the obnoxious behavior but I do not feel safe taking women or children to said events anymore due to bad experiences we have had or I have seen reported. And Unless it is addressed it is going to get worse to a point where I will not go anymore.
Just because I can handle it doesn't make it ok. And it is very documented to be widespread to a point that they are considering taking nationwide precautions.
Simply put, NFL's problem is unique to the NFL because people think paying hundreds of dollars for a ticket or even borrowing a season ticket allows them to be drunken oafs. Other events do not have nearly this issue, including NASCAR. I would still take a family and teenagers to a NASCAR race or a Baseball game. But no more for an NFL game.
I gave an example in my last post, but I'll elaborate.
To me, going just because you can "deal" with the behavior isn't a real reason for going. I don't watch R-rated movies because I can "deal" with the sex/violence/profanity that earned them their ratings. I don't listen to music with parental advisory stickers on them because I can "deal" with it.
I do these things because the movie/song/artist is something I am interested in. For example, with movies I might like the plot, the actors, the director or a combination of the three. For music, I may like the melody, the lyrics or I liked something else the artist did before.
So by saying you go to the games because you can deal with the crass behavior just doesn't work. If you had said "I still go because I love to watch football and prefer to see it live," I could accept that. Even if you had said, "I go because I normally have a good time (alone/with my friends/with my family), but lately it has been ruined by the boorish behavior of some NFL fans."
This is what I'm talking about. From your comments and linked articles, it seems to me that you already feel it has gone too far. All I wanted to know is why you still continue to attend the games, if that is the case. Granted, boycotting NFL games will not make the problem go away, but it will remove you from the equation. Why do you continue to add yourself back in and multipy your outrage?
And by continuing to argue the case that these incidents are on the rise - a fact I have never denied - you make it seem as if I am trying to make excuses for these people. I am not.
In any event, you have apparently had far worse experiences at NFL games than I have and they have effectively ruined it for you. For that I am truly sorry.
okay, now both of you have valid points but just keep going in a run around.
Honestly, being from Buffalo, we have some of the hardest fans ever. So much so that if they haven't already started, the Bills organization is taking steps to disallow the sale of alcohol after halftime because the stadium is no longer "a family environment" The Buffalo News has done articles on it and it's hurting besiness for the team.
Currently I'm in Chicago. Bears fans also die-hard and pretty roudy. However the same problem doesn't happen. There are a few cases here and there but for the most part, everyone is pretty fun and respectful around others. (unless you are a packers fan) They don't have to worry about alcohol sales and talking to a few stadium security, they really have no big issues.
As of right now, it seems to be a stadium by stadium issue. I mean, for crying out loud, the eagles have a jail inside their stadium don't they?
So again, we each have personal experiences. Others haven't. That doesn't make them wrong.
Wow... this conversation is still going on...
Who's watching football today?
Nobody, that's who.
I think this sounds fantastic.
I'm done with this thread.
Separate names with a comma.