Who is Autobot 2nd in command in season 1 and 2?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by galvatron1976, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. grunge

    grunge The TANK

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    yeah? i thought they were just random fembots. didnt know they could transform, and just "coinciodense" they resembled Arcee ...

    so Ironhide Prowl or Jazz. what does that make Elita-1 then? sub commander?
     
  2. Obsidian X

    Obsidian X Dork of the moon

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    And 'Nancy' the Junkion female, if you consider the Junkions Autobots.
     
  3. Killamarshan

    Killamarshan Iacon Tourist

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    This is the chain of command as penned by Simon Furman in 86. As has been said Jetfire at one stage led the Autobots and I can think of one instance in 'The Enemy Within' where Prime sought Mirage's counsel - though his role as a chief intel officer was never portrayed strongly.

    Chain of command
     
  4. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    There never really was a definite second-in-command in the G1 cartoon... the Autobots seemed to have a pretty loose group dynamic. However, Jazz and Ironhide seemed to get special status because they were closest to Prime... and in Ironhide's case just because he's older, tougher and bossier than everyone else. :) 

    Prowl
    was the second-in-command in the comics because he WAS legitimately the second-in-command. He was the only Autobot sporting a Rank 9 in 1984-85 (Jetfire had a 10, but there's a convoluted reason for that). As a top Autobot strategist, it makes sense that he would occupy a top-ranking position.

    Jazz (rank 8) is more of a field-agent, the guy who works alone, and still gets his hands dirty sometimes. He can pull rank on most Autobots, but not Prowl.

    Ironhide (rank 7) is, as someone pointed out, sort of a drill sergeant type. He's old and ornery, and everybody has to give him some respect. He's still some kind of officer, but he's not at the top really. He's just always with Prime. As a point of interest, Mirage and Bumblebee share this rank (7) too.

    Wheeljack (rank 8) is one people don't often think of. He's the chief engineering officer, so he outranks Ironhide and matches Jazz. I think it's kind of like Scotty taking over the Enterprise though. He'll hold the line, but he's not really comfortable in that role.

    In fact, this could be said of all those top ranked Autobots in the first year... they are dedicated advisors, agents and administrators... but none of them really feel like a leader. They are the guys who work best as #2 guys (much as Soundwave does among the Decepticons).

    I've never really been sure what "city commander" means, but Magnus always struck me as the "leader type"... I mean, I guess that's just because of his alt-mode, patriotic colours, and impressive latinate name. :) 

    His Tech Specs give him Rank 8, though the specs stats for many of the "movie" characters that year are a bit suspect.

    Did you miss this part?
    The point of Prowl is that he doesn't NEED to spend time over-analyzing things. He just KNOWS because he's already figured it out (in .5 seconds). Someone with a truly keen analytic mind never gives the impression of having to think too hard about something, because they've taken it all in at a glance and assessed the solution before anyone even asks them what to do. Prowl is like a strategic Rain Man. :) 

    This is why he's #2... in a battlefield situation, he's invaluable. He keeps his cool, has a razor sharp mind, and always has the best course of action ready. However, this is also why he's best as a #2 and not a #1... he's too logical. He's not the one who will inspire his troops or follow intuition when the time calls for it.

    Prowl is essentially Spock to Prime's Kirk. Sort of.

    This is one of the reasons why the Roberts/Roche Prowl story for IDW was so good... it addresses this factor head on. Prowl guides the Autobots from the background, in his own way circumventing the Autobots' overvaluing of "gumption", "spirit", "courage" etc, over rational decision making.

    On the other hand Jazz DOES have the qualities of charisma, dynamism, spontaneity, intuition, etc... though again, he's not full leader material. He's too easily distracted by his cultural interests, too concerned with "being cool", and he's the kind of guy who likes to work on his own and do things his own way. Jazz is basically Sam-Jackson-as-James-Bond. He can take command of situations, but he's no figurehead.

    The cartoon never really spelled stuff like that out. However, I will say that Jazz got a couple of scenes where he acted like a second-in-command guy, as opposed to Prowl who almost NEVER did anything to stand out from the crowd on the cartoon.

    Right, he was one of the guys who really got sidelined in the comics. His one shining moment of character development was when a wheelchair-bound human teenager got to remote-control him with keyboard shortcuts, and it made him an unbeatable warrior. Kid with 1985 computer trumps "most sophisticated logic center of the Autobots", I guess. :p 

    When in doubt, there's one thing that it's always good to remember when trying to make sense of this stuff. The G1 cartoon... was dumb. ;) 

    No, I think that's exactly right. I totally agree! :thumb 

    I find it amusing that someone whose screen-name is "Red Alert" hands security tasks over to Prowl. :D 

    I just wanted to say something here. Prowl disguises as a police car. That's it. It does not make him a cop, a guard, or a security guy. He's a military strategist.

    In earth terms, he's one of the brass. It's helpful to look at those "stars" on his shoulders in terms of an army general. ;) 

    You are correct, in both instances. :) 

    I always thought that was weird, too... like what has this guy actually done? I mean, in the Marvel comics, he was practically born yesterday almost literally, so why is he given so much clout?

    I believe it's kind of a holdover from that brief period of time that Hasbro was considering releasing Jetfire as the new Autobot Leader for the 1985 line, but then backed off. I'm betting his Tech Specs graph was left over from when he was being billed as Commander.

    Though that still doesn't explain his poor strength and endurance. :) 

    I find that poster full of all sorts of dodgy stuff. For example, Bumblebee is the same rank as Mirage, and should be in the same field (Intelligence). I don't see how Mirage gets to be one of the top-officers.

    Then there's the arbitrary categories of "Speedsters" and "Minibots", which really has nothing whatsoever to do with the role any of those characters play in the Autobot hierarchy.

    And how is Skids a "speedster"? He's a theoretician with a bad driving record, and a Rank (8) that should place him at the table with the other Autobot officers, not dodging laser blasts in the field.

    And Trailbreaker is a "tracker"??? The guy has horrible fuel economy and hates going out on missions. He's a Defensive Strategist, not a "tracker". His job is to stay at base and make sure the homestead is well-defended.

    In short, most of it's sort of simplistic bullshit. If Furman came up with that chart, he needs to be swatted with a rolled up copy of Transformers Universe. Hard. :mad 

    zmog
     
  5. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    that seems likely
     
  6. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little surprised how many people use the tech specs (or whatever their called) to determine their answer to this question. And I'm not saing that they're wrong, I just don't think that they hold as much weight as what I saw during the series. Again, this is assuming that we're just talking about the original cartoon.
     
  7. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    I think the reason why I [and others] choose to use the tech specs over the toon is because they came first.

    The cartoon was pretty much that last medium the fiction was told in.
     
  8. doucoo

    doucoo U're an idiot Starscream!

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    Personally I love the cartoon, but not factually correct in terms of the Transformer world.

    There are too many mistakes and plot holes in the cartoon
     
  9. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    If you're ONLY talking about the cartoon, then you're right... Tech Specs don't really carry all that much weight at all, since the cartoon deviated from the source material quite often...

    *note that I'm very much stating here that the cartoon is NOT the source material, as much as some people would like it to be! :p 

    Tech Specs are certainly pertinent to G1 as it is supposed to be, but they're pretty irrelevant to the cartoon, which is why I prefaced my post by saying that Cartoon Jazz is the closest thing we see to a "second-in-command" for the Autobots in the first 2 seasons. Prowl is a virtual non-entity, sadly.

    I consider the cartoon to be a derivation of the original bios and Specs, and so I do see those deviations and differences to be distortions of the "real thing", regardless of how broad it's influence was on the public reception of Transformers. Even back in the day, I looked to my comics and my Tech Specs, and was very aware of all the stuff that the Cartoon "got wrong". :) 

    zmog
     
  10. mattarmstrong

    mattarmstrong Well-Known Member

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    Prowl was number 2
     
  11. Superquad7

    Superquad7 OCP Police Crime Prevention Unit 001 Super Content Contributor

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    Regarding other media besides the cartoon, the main reason that anything else isn't as "highly regarded" is simply because as kids we were more exposed and saturated with the cartoon than any other media.
     
  12. Wheeljack30

    Wheeljack30 Banned

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    Starscream was second in command?I always thought it was Soundwave since he always obeyed Megatron
     
  13. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    It's the same as the Jazz thing. Just because Soundwave was Megatron's "favourite" and most valued agent, it doesn't mean he's the second-in-command. Starscream is higher ranked, but I think it's also a question of ambition. Soundwave has no interest in being leader, because it's safer to serve the throne, than it is to lead or be seen as "too ambitious". :) 

    zmog
     
  14. Scaleface

    Scaleface Well-Known Member

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    Prowl was higher ranked but he was more a strategist. Jazz was third ranked and in charge of special operations. Ironhide was in charge of security. Of course Skyfire outranked those three.

    Do you know who was second in command of the first year Maximal toys? Polar Claw!