Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ChromedomeMaster, Apr 11, 2019.
Skywarp is the official Winner
And it wasn’t a production error or an animation mistake
It was what they chose
what story are you talking about?
It would seem logical to assume that the choice was made when it was decided that the original script was a bit too violent to make it to the final film
From what I recall originally the idea was that the new characters were going to be made by using all the floating body parts of the dead characters
And the idea seemingly was dropped because it was considered a bit too gruesome, so I assume that was when who became whom was decided
The only ones that can answer this without doubt is Hasbro/Sunbow. Because the movie FUCKS that scene up hardcore (along others). You have to remember this is the same movie that had 2 Cycloni, which miraculously become only 1 Cyclonus in the next frame. Anyone have any insights with someone there?
Cycloni... Grammar is depressing
English language is one hell of a bugger
What is there to ask?
There’s really no question here
The story board proves 100% that the movie FUCKED NOTHING in that scene up at all.
You have to remember , the original intend was for there to be a large number of Cycloni.....”his Armada”....basically his version of the sweeps
Cyclonus was to have his own small army of clones.....you even see this army in 5 faces of darkness....and while the episodes have plenty of errors the cyclonus army wasn’t one of them
The idea was dropped mid production but not till after the scene we are talking about was animated.....but the scene was animated as it was intended (sans the 3rd Cyclonus clone)
So you believe that bombshell became cyclonus, right...
I say Bombshell. He's the one "flexing" when Unicron dubs him "Cyclonus, the warrior" while Skywarp in the bg is just floating there after the reformat.
If there's no confusion that Thundercraker (who was in the foreground of the shot when he was reformatted) and became Scourge then why should the same logic not be applied to who became Cyclonus.
The original transformer movie draft, if commissioned, would possibly had a lot of children in therapy for a long time........ So I wasn't surprised Feldman and co would of thought of something like that.
In G1 Michael Bell Bombshell voice:
Sorry if it’s bad taste but I found that idea funny
Story board, schmory board and, sorry, I do not agree with you.
We're talking about the same movie that turned two of the seekers and the insecticons into the Cycloni and the Sweeps and the next frame, it's 1 Cylconus and later on in the movie an insecticon is amongst makes an appearance when the Galvatron lead Decepticons attack the planet of junk. Weather intended or not, they never fixed that "opps". They FUCKED several things throughout the movie. The cartoon series was much, MUCH worse. Using the storyboard as an excuse doesn't "excuse" them from the mess ups.
What's next? They reason is justifiable due to "80's logic"?
You may not like it, but there’s nothing to disagree with
Same equation here
So what if there are other mistakes, the hard evidence shows this was not in anyway a mistake
Storyboard tells the animators what to do
The animators did what they were told to do
Seeing the insecticons again using an issue, they clone themselves
Seeing 1 Cylconus in the next shot doesn’t help your argument much, it could be evidence the the change they made to drop the “armada”
It fine to speculate and debate when there we had absence hard evidence for all those years.....
It’s easy to point to all the other errors in the film and assume this may have been yet an other mistake....
But that is no longer the case, we
And you really can’t expect them to re-animate” shots to fix any “Opps” issues, not to mention re-record lines spoken by an actor that died prior to the dropping of the cycloni army idea
They certainly FUCKED several things throughout the movie.........but they Did Not Fuck Up This Scene
The storyboard prove that 100%
The other mistakes really don’t create any
In this kind of debate You got to judge each possible mistake on its own, and the evidence separately
And the evidence tells us Skywarp was never in the running to become Cyclonus
Except for the fact that some of the writers said that he couldn't care less about who he originally was meant to be, but that he now believes that he is skywarp... Not bombshell
Sorry but I think your trying too hard to make an argument
“some of the writers said that he couldn’t care less”
So which is it, more then 1 writer or just 1 writer?
And who care what he feels now, 30 years after the fact....Hindsight is always 20/20
None of that changes the Fact, and I repeat Real Fact of what was done in 1986
The film showed us who became whom
The story boards proves it wasn’t an error
The real question is, "Why the flying fuck does it matter?" Especially since the fans have debated this for over twenty years now, as if a conclusive answer had any real significance for understanding the character.
My liking it or not is irrelevant. There is much do disagree on as you're trying to justify the movie's mistakes.
Not only is this statement contradictory, it also solidifies there were mistakes they choose not to correct.
Considering the time frame, there were no insecticons to clone themselves from. Seriously now man, you're fishing for needles in a haystack.
Seeing one? No. Seeing 2, then "POOF!" just one. Yeah, solidifies my point.
You can paint it whatever color you want to keep that boat of yours afloat. The color is still IS a fuck up on their part. They just didn't care to correct it.
All you're proving is that the Storyboard didn't GAF. The mistake is there, watch the movie any # of times you like. It Is STILL There.
Seriously, you're staring to come off as the guy that were proven to you the sky is blue, but you keep insisting it's red all because "God" told you so
The evidence in the movie shows both Bombshell and Skywarp became Cycloni. What wasn't shown which one of the two made to the next frame where 2 Cycloni miraculously turned out to be one. Frankly, I don't GAF which one made it. My point remains the movie has tons of mistakes, this whole Cyclonus thing being one of them.
I don't want to go deeper into this. We have a difference of opinion on the matter. I'm content to leave it at we agree to disagree and leave things be.
I didn’t say it was irrelevant.....it obviously very important to you
But what you, I or anyone likes has nothing to do with the facts, nore does it. Hanged the facts
Not at all
Like I said the film made plenty of mistakes, this just isn’t one of them and that has been proven
So I have nothing to justify
There is no contradiction at all
Evidence of one mistake is not evidence of another
The bottom line is that one mistake can only suggest that another may have been made
And storyboards prove this was not a mistake
I’m not the one fishing here
There could’ve been millions of clothes back on cybertron
Keep Tryan buddy you might actually catch a fish
The scene and the dialogue were already produced, As I already pointed out the original plan was to have more than one
Not much they could do to correct the reformatting scene, The best they could do would have been to not show the second one from that point on
How do you figure?
Storyboard shows Bombshell and at least 1 full drawn copy being created
The film lm showed the exact same thing
I don’t get it and I’m not sure how to take it
Anyway The evidence in the movie shows both Bombshell and Skywarp became Cycloni. ......but the camera targeted mainly the one that was closer to center screen and followed that character throughout the transformation of only one of them
The one that was Bombshell
Those that wanted it to be Skywarp always had very little to hang their hats on, desire and the hope it was a mistake like other mistakes
Storyboard shot that hope out of the sky
Personally I wish they had used a bunch of generics, or body parts, but they didn’t
My point is proven in the storyboards, the movie has tons of mistakes, this whole Cyclonus thing is NOT one of them.
That’s perfectly fine this is all a way for me to enjoy some time at my desk
I guess I've always leaned towards Skywarp, mainly because of the parallel between him and Thundcracker (who becomes Scourge).
That much being said, I don't know that anyone 'became' anyone. I don't think that Cyclonus and Scourge were upgrades in the same sense that Galvatron was, they were entirely new characters. I always interpreted that scene as Unicron wiping away the old Decepticon army and replacing it with a new army, not necessarily the characters being rebuilt. Kind of like when a Pawn reaches the end of the chessboard, and gets replaced by a Queen. I see the imagery of the characters being 'replaced' as more of a symbolic thing, not literal (especially since there's the animation error of two Cyclonuses). If that makes sense.
Nay. Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. My liking or not it is irrelevant as it doesn't affect the outcome of the mistakes in that movie. You believe it's important to me. I'm letting you know it's not.
You believe it's not a mistake. Just because it was intended to be one way, but they mixed both up doesn't stop it from being an "OOPS!", but whatever helps you sleep at night.
No, not at all. Just to happens to turn out that way, right?
You're harping about evidence, yet have one smacking you right in the face and you not only choose to ignore it, but defend its cause. Yeah, we're done here.
As said before, Storyboards just prove they didn't give enough of a damn to fix it.
It's 'Trying', and I'm not the one with the fishing rod out *points at your hands*
Which means jack-squat. Original plan was A, but B was used instead. However, parts of A 'accidentally' slipped into B. THAT's a fuck up. They didn't care to fix it.
In part, I agree with you here. It would have been much better if they didn't show the second one from that point.
The movie shows both Bombshell and one of the Seekers. Again, frankly I care less which one made it through. Their F up was showing both, then just one. They didn't care to fix it and it doesn't matter what the Storyboard says because it ... was ... *never* ... fixed in the movie. Intent is one thing, but how it turns out is another. They fucked up and they didn't own up to it. Nor did they care to.
I just re-watched that scene ... pretty sure there were two then one. Bombshell and a Seeker -> two Cycloni ---> POOF 1 Cyclonus. You'd have to be blind or some serious white knighting to not see that.
Gunna say it for the last time. I do NOT F u c k i n g care which one made it to become Cyclonus. I'm neither pro Bombshell nor pro Skywarp. It is completely irrelevant to me. It could have been Megatron's floating space turd for all it matters to me which became Cyclonus.
My issue with the movie are the mistakes in them. There being 2 Cycloni then miraculously just one is ONE of those many mistakes. Paint it whatever color you want. That color was still an error they chose not to fix in the movie.
You're point is that you're defending their mistakes and taking it as word of law. A mistake is a mistake, REGARDLESS of original intent. They messed up and they didn't care enough to address the matter in the movie. Just kept rolling with it.
Separate names with a comma.