Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ChromedomeMaster, Apr 11, 2019.
You actually did deny that earlier, But you’re so call “emphasis” is wrong....The entire reason the franchise came into being was to sell choice
The comic books the cartoon and the movies were all just tools to achieve that goal
Obviously it was an opinion.....Wasn’t that obvious with the words used and the sentence structure
I kept referring to And useing words like “if I”..... What happened to your so-called Superior intelligence? Can’t you tell the difference?
Irrelevant psychology, focusing on you?
You are the one resorting to insults, You’re the one that seems to be focused on me, so much so that the minute someone else tells you you’re wrong you actually drop the topic , as you did about Cyclonus
You’re just desperate to win an argument
So much so that you actually suggest trusting the words of the Quintasons over the words of a leader inside the matrix
Think about this for just one minute and use your so-called sociology training, do you really think the artist and writers of the film and cartoon series would actually deliver the message that dictators and slave masters should be trusted over one of the former leaders of the good Guy heroes of the cartoon?
Again, you want us to believe that murdering dictators that experiment on innocent lifeforms and create life just so that they can enslave them for the purposes of entertainment and production should be trusted over one of the leaders of the good guys?
It’s kids cartoon, written at a time (the 80s) when the good guys were clear to identity and there was very little room for Ambiguity with the heroes
One of the good guys called Cybertron a factory that was built by the bad guys
One of the good guys said that they eventually took away that factory world built by the bad guys and ran the bad guys off world
One of the good guys said they then built a society on that factory world
All of this is in the script
This is not an opinion
Not to mention all of this dialog out numbers the 3 sentences of the units you pointed out
Again it’s a kids cartoon from the 80s, the “good guy nature” of the old leaders inside the matrix contradicts any info given by the lying, dictating slave masters and murders of the innocent bad guys
It's really hard when you want so badly for it to have been Skywarp, and not Bombshell, to have been the one who became Cyclonus. For years and years, I tried so hard to try to justify him being Skywarp. I mean don't get me wrong, I still wish that Skywarp is who they would've chosen. But when you finally open your eyes and realize that Skywarp isn't who they picked, you begin to see things more clearly. Any similarities that you see between Skywarp and Cyclonus are completely coincidental. The writers weren't sitting there in the writing room thinking "Ok, now Cyclonus is extremely loyal to Galvatron because he used to be Skywarp." Because they weren't thinking about Skywarp or Bombshell AT ALL. They were basically writing Cyclonus and Scourge as though they were completely new characters to the series, no different that Ultra Magnus, Kup, or Springer.
The way that I've come to look at the reformatted Decepticons (other than Galvatron), is to think of them as somewhat similar to the Vehicon generals in Beast Machines. Jetstorm, Tanker, and Thrust, may have the sparks of Silverbolt, Rhinox, and Waspinator. However, that's just not who they were any more. The difference is that in Beast Machines, all three eventually reverted back to their prior selves. In the post movie episodes of the original cartoon, the reformatted Decepticons never did.
I'd even take it a step further and say Unicron just used the sparkless husk of Bombshell to make a body for Cyclonus. Unicron could have given one of the countless sparks he consumed the new body under the condition that with their new lease on life they were unquestioningly loyal to him. That would at least explain the new personality and why it never reverted to the original and the lack of Bombshell's cloning power or Skywarp's teleportation. That could also explain why Galvatron retained his original personality and memories while his minions didn't.
While it's fun to speculate, I feel like if the question was asked back in 1986 "Who became Cyclonus?" the official answer would be "Who cares, go buy Cyclonus!"
As far as personal canon goes, I'd like to think Cyclonus was made from the recycled body of one of Bombshell's clones, with a new spark. His armada was going to be made out of the recycled body of Skywarp, but he wasn't as dead as Unicron thought, so as soon as Unicron juiced Skywarp up enough that his teleportation powers could work again, he booked it. Skywarp decided that he drew the line at giant talking planet eaters and retired on a nice remote tropical planet, never to be seen in the cartoon again.
My eyes say Bombshell, but my heart says Skywarp.
Well.... the case of rhinox is complicated. In fact i think the case with rhinox and galvatron are similar. Both changed so much (both body and soul/spark) enough that it warrants them to be new individuals. Yet they do retain memories and some traits of their old personalities as well.
It is interesting how many people are using this logic: the guy who is in front is the real guy, while the guy behind is the clone. In the case of thundercracker its so clear. He is in front. Plus unicron calls him scourge as he is changed first. While the insecticons are called sweeps and then are changed. But in the case of bombshell and skywarp, both change at the same time as unicron says the name cyclonus. The only pro bombshell argument i can see is: well bombshell was in the front. And...
When unicron says his armada...the sweeps and scourge fly in. And furthermore, this is the last time we ever see another cyclonus. Cyclonus remains as one for the rest of the movie, and for most of season 3, (with a few exceptions): example: 5 faces of darkness where as many as 5 clone cyclonus's appear. And furthermore, we see insecticons again in season 3. But not skywarp or thundercracker. Same with toyline. We see insecticons still on sale, but not skywarp or thundercracker.
you can disagree all you want but you’re still wrong
Do you even know the origin of how the franchise known as hasbro came into being?Oh yeah I forgot you don’t know how to do any research.
Long and complicated story short and so simple a Hasbro Executive when to a Japanese held International toy show, the show was for set up so that Japanese toy companies could present and sell their toys to companies from other countries
At the show Takara was advertising their toys.....the Hasbro guy saw them and decided .......I can sell these in America
I sure the guys that worked on the fictions sides of things feel different about their work, but that doesn’t change the how and why the franchise was created
You really aren’t that bright
There’s nothing to confess since those sentences were obvious to understand to anyone
I picture of you is not only incorrect...... you have earned it
Your motives are not the issue, it’s your behavior, you seem incapable of launching an effective debate and when you loose ground you result to insults, bragging about your so called “Superiority” and out right denial
It’s all very childish, and your ignorant comment you in your last post yesterday only showed your true colors
I truly hope you choose not to continue this discourse, but after observing the fragile nature of your ego through this childish behavior of yours I’m sure you’ll continue
And I only treated the words of primon as truthful.... because you failed to present any solid evidence or any reason not to
And this is exactly why your argument failed
The bad guys are willing to take anything they see and claim it as their own .....you can’t trust their words
And a home can be where ever and what ever a person wants it to be
You presented no better descriptions of cybertron then primon did and you presented no reason to doubt his words
And you can disagree all you want but you don’t have a leg to stand on, the dialog is clear, a good guy (primon) said that cybertron was built by the bad guys (the quints) as a factory
Plain and simple facts, no opinion
I’m not sure if that is a complement
I really wish I could say the same for your Arguments but I’m going to give you a chance
Let’s just say for arguments sake that you’re right, let’s just say for arguments sake that you’re right with your original argument,
1)breast wars and beast machines is a direct sequel to the g1 cartoon
2)cybertron had an organic origin as seen in beast machines
Then Cybertron was never truly the home of the Quints because beast machines also told us that the organic cybertron was colonized by aliens and the Indigenous life forms were killed off when the planet was Changed into a metal
Care to explain that one?
Well beast wars was created for a different generation
But none of that changes the “good guys are right” argument.The g1 cartoon was made for kids of the 80s....it was pretty much a government mandate that the good guys be truthful and honorable
It was pretty much the norm that only an autobots words are the truth..... the even made a joke of it “they don’t call them decp-ticons for nothing”
Actually they fly immediately after Unicron finished his line “and his armada”
The production team dropped the idea of having a team of “armada clones”
Also, I believe someone once posted pics from the autobots escape from autobot city that showed 2 cyclonuses attacking one of the shuttles as it launched
Whenever there is debate featuring PrimeUltra it's best to put him on ignore.
True it's a good point but I prefer thinking that Cyclonus "spark"has been created by Unicron in that moment, or there was also the chance,by some rumours, that he could be one of sparks contained in Decepticon Crypt before it was crashed during a fight there between Decepticons freeing him,and his ancient design and Scourge too, could be a hint.
Thank you for advice freind.
Despite his righteousness and belief in himself as the author of absolute truth, he does actually have great knowledge of g1 transformers though.
It is for that reason, and also on account of my own addiction to g1 transformers, that i continue the dialogue...
One more question i have for ultraprime:
Going back to your beliefs about how marketing is relevent, as the movie is suppossedly all about selling toys. What do you make of season 3 (1986) toys that where issued? Notice how the insecticons are being re-issued again, (as in 1985). However, notice skywarp and thundercracker are replaced by cyclonus and scourge. Does what occured in the movies plot support this marketing in your opinion? Why is bombshell being reissued, but skywarp is not? Why do the insecticons appear in season 3, but skywarp does not? Notice also how skywarp and thundercrackers spot (from 1985 toyline), is taken over by scourge and cyclonus? What do you make of that?
Why do you continue to try to rehash the same arguments that have already failed?
You asked this question already and it was answered not only by me but very eloquently by split lip
Maybe you already forgot here is what he posted
Take a look at the auto bot side of that catalog,
Jetfire is still on the catalog with no real show appearance in season 3 .....if he ever really had on to begin with (Different debate)
Whirl and Roadbuster are on the catalog and they never appeared in any episode what so ever
The same can be said if the Deluxe Insecticons , all 4 in the catalog and no show Appearance in any episode of the entire series
And look at the 85 catalog, did you ever see the JumpStarters in the cartoon?
There is no correlation between what they put in the catalog and what they do with the fiction
But the fiction is still a vehicle for the purposes of selling the toys.....
the toys were not meant to sell the fiction....look at the bios for Galvatron and Rodimus for evidence of that
Your arguments just continue to get weaker
Because I stick to my guns
Then you thing incorrectly
I actually have met quite a few of the creators behind the original comics and cartoon, but I can’t say I know them in a personal level
I’ve asked many questions but I wouldn’t call it an interview .
I was an artist myself before I lost the use of my dominate hand in an Accident.....but I did ask many questions as to how they broke into the business and what they dreamed about when they were younger
I met many of the voice actors over the years as well including Peter and Frank
Not that any of this is relevant to how and why the franchise came to exist
Yes, You earned it
And you earned it again with your next comment
There it is ....true greaseless behavior
How ironic it is that the person who has the boost his/her ego by claiming he is smarter and of healthy mine accusess others of being graceless
If you had a higher IQ and a healthier mine you wouldn’t stoop to the level of making it publicly known just to boost your ego
What a fail
More insults more evidence of your so-called healthier mind
week buddy and so is your so-called evidence.And this is exactly why your argument failed
In regards to cybertron, there are a number of possibilities that can be considered because we were never shown everything about its past......I said that from the start
In regards to Cyclonus......you and everyone can believe what they want, I said that from the start too
However, if the question is what was actually shown and intended by the makers of the film, the evidence is in the storyboards
Because you only presented circumstantial evidence.Not solid evidence
Cybertron was an artificially created planet built to be a factory, when the robots got control of cybertron they built cities
That’s what the dialog says
Very funny but no, again it’s was a 80s kids cartoon.They were murdering slave master dictators, they were the bad Guys
Your ability to stretch for the Apple knows no bounds
thank you for prefacing this post as your opinion .And don’t take that I’m only focusing on one part as any insult . I just don’t disagree with much of what you said on that topic
I cannot remember the exact dialogue on this one, but from what I remember it was either primal or night scream that suggested the idea that cybertron was colonized and The indigenous life killed off
Keep in mind I said it was suggested and not stated as a definitive fact, but I remember a comment from one of them when they found fossils that someone had taken the world from the indigenous life
I don’t disagree with you that many people wanted it that way in the past and still do today
But the government did have a hand in it as well, kids television programming was heavily Regulated between the 60s and 80s, in fact for years a cartoon based on a toy line was not allowed on tv.....It was the 80s when some of these regulations what changed
I’m not sure why you would ask this question.....it doesn’t seem help your position
First thing......the “armada” was the name of the team of Cyclonus clones alone.....the sweeps were not part of the armada, as it was mention cyclonus we Supposed to have his own group not just 1 Clone
You can call it an animation error if you like, the film does have quite a few, the number of sweeps changed a few times
The script pretty much called for an a great supply of the clones. But like I said there were changes made in production, but done of the animation was already completed by the time the changes were made
funny you ask this question, I remember a topic started by someone, might have been this site....maybe it was the allspark site, I don’t remember any more. Anyway I remember that in the topic someone posted a pick of a 6th guy being kicked out of astrotrain
Maybe I’ll look for it
Go back and read it
I also posted it there for you to read
Bottom line there’s just no correlation between the toy catalogs and the anime/fiction
That’s not opinion that’s just a fact
Separate names with a comma.