Who became cyclonus

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ChromedomeMaster, Apr 11, 2019.

?

Who became cyclonus?

Poll closed Apr 18, 2019.
  1. Skywarp

    14 vote(s)
    56.0%
  2. Bombshell

    11 vote(s)
    44.0%
  1. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Your blindness and deafness to the evidence i presented displays your defective mentality.

    You have no proof that skywarp was an armada cyclonus. The Bombshell clone could just as easily been that clone of cyclonus.

    I say scourge look alikes. Get your focus off trivial grammar and look at meanings. You know what i mean don't you? Or are you a souless drone stuck in your own programming?

    Fact: any expert in religion would tell you that all religions consist of some kind of spirituality.

    Fact: i am right and you are wrong. Note that i am not disputing all your facts. Example the autobot elders description of cybertrons beginnings. I do not dispute the fact that cybertron had its beginnings as a factory. What i am saying is that a persons beliefs are not necessarily the pure absolute truth. The transformers certainly where born in that factory. But like most fools, they think all that they know is the truth. The wise in contrast acknowledge the fact of the unknown, and seek to discover it. The discoveries end up contradicting old facts though. Just as science contradicts old biblical based creation myths.
     
  2. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Humans reason and judge all the time. I am no different. But unlike most fools like yourself, if i must judge, i try to do it carefully, delicately, and i ensure i got lots of evidence too. An athiest is typically a person who is into themselves. And if athiests (or anyone else), can think outside their box, they typically believe only if they can perceive it by the sences. Spirituality, however, is not really percievable or of science. I never met an atheist who is like that, (spiritual), have you?
     
  3. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I understand that that is your opinion, and I am not going to tell you that you do not have a right to your opinion

    And I’m not going to tell you that your idea is not possible but it is a “Revisionist point of view” that does not, I repeat DOES NOT have any solid evidence to support it inside of the G1 cartoon series itself

    Also forcyour idea to be possible you have to believe that the leader inside the matrix was wrong or lying .Because there is no other interpretation of his words that fits the dialog,words and context of the situation at that moment in the episode

    And I’m willing to “consider” the possibility that he was wrong.......but I don’t find it likely
    Back to insult again how buddy only proving who really has the defective mentality

    I haven’t been blind or deaf to anything you presented, The problem here is that you don’t seem to understand the difference between circumstantial evidence and solid evidence

    wrong

    upload_2019-8-20_11-37-51.jpeg

    Right there
    Bombshell to Cyclonus

    And try to remember what I told you about sales strategy and product placement
    I don’t even know what you’re talking about here, I guess it’s another sign of your defective mentality
    Correct
    Ever hear the term: “All apples are fruits, but all fruits are not apples”

    In case you don’t get it
    Fact: all religions consist of some kind of spirituality, but not all forms of spirituality consist of some form of religion
    Hilarious
    You must really feel insecure to make a statement like that

    Fact; you haven’t provided one piece of positive prove of anything

    You are welcome to your personal believes, problem is is that you called them facts

    And that’s what made you wrong

    Wrong
    And now you’re contradicting yourself and trying to revise what you said earlier

    I asked you before if you felt the old leader was wrong......you said No

    Now you are suggesting he was wrong

    Can’t keep a straight argument can you?
    As a matter fact I have

    Actually an entire community of them but I’m not going to get into that since that’s outside the scope of this conversation and thread.As to your comment about fools,

    Only a fool continuities to deny facts presented to them willing,

    Only a fool chooses to insult when he is presented with evidence of his failing arguments

    Only a fool can’t be bothered to do the research on a topic he is trying to make an argument about

    Which you have done Continuously in this thread

    Oh yeah....Only a fool thinks he is anybody’s Superior

    Who’s the fool here again ?

    “Look for Solutions from within commander”

    I’ll give you a No-prize if you remember where that line is from
     
  4. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I understand that that is your opinion, and I am not going to tell you that you do not have a right to your opinion

    And I’m not going to tell you that your idea is not possible but it is a “Revisionist point of view” that does not, I repeat DOES NOT have any solid evidence to support it inside of the G1 cartoon series itself

    Also for your idea to be possible you have to believe that the leader inside the matrix was wrong or lying .Because there is no other interpretation of his words that fits the dialog,words and context of the situation at that moment in the episode

    And I’m willing to “consider” the possibility that he was wrong.......but I don’t find it likely
    Back to insult again how buddy only proving who really has the defective mentality

    I haven’t been blind or deaf to anything you presented, The problem here is that you don’t seem to understand the difference between circumstantial evidence and solid evidence

    wrong

    upload_2019-8-20_12-20-8.jpeg
    Right there
    Bombshell to Cyclonus

    Not to mention what I already told you about marketing strategy placement product Position and focus
    I don’t even know what you’re talking about here, I guess it’s another sign of your defective mentality
    Correct
    Ever hear the term: “All apples are fruits, but all fruits are not apples”

    In case you don’t get it
    Fact: all religions consist of some kind of spirituality, but not all forms of spirituality consist of some form of religion
    Hilarious
    You must really feel insecure to make a statement like that

    Fact; you haven’t provided one piece of positive prove of anything

    You are welcome to your personal believes, problem is is that you called them facts

    And that’s what made you wrong

    Wrong
    And now you’re contradicting yourself and trying to revise what you said earlier

    I asked you before if you felt the old leader was wrong......you said No

    Now you are suggesting he was wrong

    Can’t keep a straight argument can you?
    As a matter fact I have

    Actually what could be called community of them but I’m not going to get into that since that’s outside the scope of this conversation and thread.As to your comment about fools,

    Only a fool continuities to deny facts presented to them willing,

    Only a fool chooses to insult when he is presented with evidence of his failing arguments

    Only a fool can’t be bothered to do the research on a topic he is trying to make an argument about

    Which you have done Continuously in this thread

    Oh yeah....Only a fool thinks he is anybody’s Superior

    Who’s the fool here again ?

    “Look for answers from within commander”

    I’ll give you a No-prize if you remember where that line is from
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that many things i say is opinion. But you have serious problems because you think what you say is some kind of indisputable factual truth. That is where there is dissagreement. And people like us will never agree. In my view this issue is actually phychological. I am continueing this dialogue though, because despite personal things, transformers is still being disscussed.
    And i want to stick to disscussing your view concerning transformer issues. You and your beliefs....which you think are facts. I only dispute some of your so called facts. But even among those facts, anybody can present other facts that contradicts. G1 is full of contradiction. I do not think you acknowledge the reality of plurality. Many writers, and artists, and ideas, and timelines of other universes are presented. And being mixed together. The result is unclarity and contradiction. Bearing that in mind, which you do not, it is impossible for you to be right.
     
  6. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    I will focus on your beliefs that you think are facts. My aim is not necessarily to say that your facts are not facts. But rather, my aim is to show alternative facts that contradict your facts; thereby proving that their is no absolute truth in what you say.

    Issue 1: all you do is provide pictures from the script depicting bombshell becoming cyclonus. But you refuse to acknowledge the fact that skywarp also turns to cyclonus in the movie. You have no proof whatsoever that one is the real cyclonus and the other is the clone.

    Issue 2: you say that not all forms of spirituality are religion. I actually agree with this statement. But my point was that without spirituality, their is no religion. I will give you a chance to make your case on this one, if you wish. (I have an open mind and am willing and interested in hearing your argument here). Can you mention any religion that is devoid of spirituality? If not, then it seems i am correct.

    Issue 3: the leaders words: it could have been primus himself by the way, who can tell. You are taking one statement that this obscure character said, and are making a dogma out of it, and refusing to look at other statements that give us a clue about the origins of cybertron. No other sources ever call the planet cybertron a factory except this senile old autobot leader. (Decepticons would not respect or believe or acknowledge him). I am sure that the words carry some truth to them though. But they are subject to interpretation. You interpret them literally. That cybertron is a factory. This contradicts dozens of other statements about cybertron in g1 anime that calls cybertron a planet with cities. Cities have many factories. Not just one factory. And cities have other things besides factories as well. So therefore you are clearly in the wrong.

    Issue 4: I do not know who said those words. I am not a know it all and infalible as you present yourself to be. So who said those words?
     
  7. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    That a lot of what you say is opinion is not a problem.It’s that you call your opinions facts is the problem.... anything I stated is a factual truth was indeed a factual truth

    What i said about the dialog in 5faces of darkness was a factual truth. What i said about the storyboards showing Bombshell becoming Cyclonus was a factual truth

    I know the differences between opinion and facts quite well. That is disagreement with you and I and why we will not agree, because you put your opinion above basic facts

    And for the record, this was never a “personal thing” for me.....although you tried to insult me several times it never worked. I was never offended because those kind of actions only reflect on the person issuing the insults....it only made you look bad Since you were the one to try to make this personal

    And yes G1 is full of many contradictions.......but the ones we were talking about were never really in contradiction. I said many times, the issue about Cyclonus was up for debate for many years, the hope it was a animation error was at the center of that debate

    But the storyboards proves it wasn’t a animation error

    I have no issues with acknowledging the existence of writer/writers contributions, or that of other universes and timelines.......but none of that is relevant here .We were only talking about 1 timeline/universe and that was of the G1 cartoon

    So the result is very clear , on the issues we talked about (cybertron/cyclonus) there was no contradiction.

    And with that in mind , there was no solid proof g1 cartoon cybertron was ever organic, the storyboards prove Bombshell becoming Cyclonus was not an animation error

    So it is possible for me to be right, and The empirical evidence back me up
    Issue 1:That’s because what you claim is not a fact

    The fact is that you refuse to accept is that Skywarp becomes one member the “The Armada”....a group like the Sweeps that look just like their team leader

    It’s stated in both the script and the film

    Dialog from the film: Unicron; [i/]and these shall be your minions....Scourge and tracker and his huntsman the Sweeps

    Cyclonus the Warrior and is armada [/i]

    And again the storyboards is 100% proof of which became Cyclonus

    And as I pointed out several times, the film was an advertisement for the toys
    Marketing practices makes it illogical to be putting the @bamed product” in the back ground, smaller, and away from the focus and action of the camaraderie eye
    What Chase do I have to make

    I never once said religion can exist without spirituality

    I think you need to brush up on reading and comprehension skills

    I said spirituality can exist without a religious aspect

    So there is absolutely no way you can be correct here
    Well hasbro says that he is not

    And yes, one statement that is a clear and precise declaration From a character within the matrix that the writers intended for the audience to consider to be as important as Optimus Prime himself

    And what other statements are you talking about?

    There are No other statements from inside the G1 cartoon that contradicts what he said about cybertron being built as a factory by the Quints

    Senile?
    You will try anything to win this argument won’t you?

    There’s no reason to believe he senile because he is within the matrix....which would only be representing the vest the guy ever was

    What the Decepticons might think of the guy is irrelevant since they weren’t part of the screne in question, and you are only assuming that they wouldn’t believe or acknowledge him.

    I am sure that you know what the say about making the mistake of assuming things..

    Again this is science fiction
    A planet can be artificially built
    A artificially built planet can be what ever the builders want it to be
    Even a factory
    Look at Unicron

    There is no contradiction

    So therefore you are clearly in the wrong.
    One of the profits from deep space nine

    I am in no way nor have I ever presented myself to be a infallible know it all.

    The difference between you and me is that I am very careful to only talk about the things I actually know about

    You have the habit of talking about things you know little or nothing about, And then trying to tell people that you have superior knowledge than they do about those things

    I’m also very careful, very very very careful with what I call a fact and what I call an opinion and also very careful anal white debate I choose to start or participate in

    Food for thought buddy
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  8. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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  9. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    I provided you with the evidence of an organic cybertron. But you dissmiss anything i present because its my opinion. You on the otherhand. You alone give pure truths and facts.
     
  10. Optimum Supreme

    Optimum Supreme Go boom!

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    IMO, Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue, Skywarp is Cyclonus, Thundercracker's Scourge, too.

    Any "evidence" to the contrary is just an animation error. Even if intentional!

    If you disagree, that's your right, it's not worth fighting over, but that's my opinion, it has been for ~35 years, and I'm sticking to it! You'll never change my mind, and I frankly don't care about changing yours, so agree to disagree and move on.
     
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  11. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Sorry buddy but the evidence, solid evidence proves you wrong

    And I’m not the only one that has told you that here
    Yes skywarp supporters, like yourself, Believe that for years that it might have been an animation mistake.But the the storyboards proves it wasn’t a animation error

    The storyboard go through many revisions as does the final film you’re going to have to give it up buddy it was no mistake

    Only a fool stoops to insults in the light of their own weak arguments

    The cartoon writers were inspired by the marvel background, but they are different timelines/universes

    Spider-Man never appeared in the G1 cartoon

    Dinobot Island was inspired by the Savage Land but it is not the exact same place Nor was it ever stated it to be

    The G.I. Joe cartoon and transformers cartoon Exists in a shared universe quite possibly with other shows from Sunbow

    Fool...look in the mirror
    Yes you are and it’s quite time you accept it
    Yes
    And I’ve already provided that empirical evidence
    Or do you not understand the definition of the term empirical Evidence?
    If it was you would’ve been able to provide some empirical evidence to back you up instead of

    I wish I could say the same but this attempt was as pitiful as everything else you’ve tried

    There’s just no logic in introducing the named product In the background smaller and always from the focus of the action

    The marketing thing is proof As after all the film was nothing more than a long commercial for the toys

    And again the storyboards is 100% proof of which became Cyclonus
    No I didn’t, you need to learn how to read again

    I say again, I never once said religion can exist without spirituality

    And if you think I did please go find it and re-post it I guarantee you’re not going to be able to find some please post it
    Never said I was hasbro.But hasbro has retroactively given names to the leaders in the matrix ,

    His name is Primon that’s something you might have learned if you took your head out of your Tushy and did some research

    Primon - Transformers Wiki

    Just in case you don’t know how to link like you don’t know how to use the multi quote option
    upload_2019-8-20_22-0-10.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-20_21-37-51.jpeg

    And I already told you the evidence in the dialog proves you wrong

    And artificial planet can be whatever the creator want it to be Even a factory
    You can’t win because you have no solid evidence
    No he’s not, he’s a demolition machine,
    I’ll planet that eats other planets
    A weapon designed for destruction

    Again and artificial planet can be whatever the creator wants it to be even a factory

    Again no contradiction and you are clearly in the wrong.

    You’re welcome
    Boy do you need to brush up on your comprehension skills

    I know you told me that I never claimed other people did

    you go ahead Continue believing that you’re smarter and stronger and superior

    Apparently your ego is so weak that you really need to think that regardless of the fact that you have shown absolutely no indication of it
    If you had solid proof from the g1 cartoon I wouldn’t have dismissed it

    The only solid proof you provided was from Beast Machines, and that’s a different continuity/universe

    Now I will admit you have provided examples and indications that the G1 cartoon cybertron MAY have been organic

    Oxygen water caves Etc. etc. etc.

    But none of those are solid evidence, they are circumstantial evidence at best Because they’re all alternative and likely reason for all of that to be on cybertron

    Do you understand the difference between circumstantial evidence and solid evidence?Circumstantial evidence can only suggest the possibility of an organic past

    Do you understand the difference between a possibility and solid evidence?

    When you have some solid evidence post it
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I’m not trying to change anybody’s mind. My issue is when others started pushing their opinions as fact.Anybody can believe what they wanna believe but they can’t call it a fact

    As to your examples

    Rumble was intended to be the red one, the show’s Bible even indicates this....going blue could have been an animation error they just went with or a Intentional change

    So neither argument is really wrong

    There’s no doubt that that Scourge was thundercracker.... body at least,

    Cyclonus......like I said anyone can believe what they want to.....even I would have preferred Skywarp

    But someone in production made a choice and that choice was Bombshell, the storyboards show it wasn’t an animation error since the film mirrors the storyboards

    Now maybe the choice was made without and for thought, maybe it was made by someone with little to no knowledge of the characters or the series or the fans

    I would think the choice to kill Optimus was made by such a person...and that can be called a mistake in judgment and a mistake in the choice made

    But a choice was still made....and Therefore there was no animation error
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  13. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Thats the way it is.

    Great poetry.
     
  14. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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  15. Minibots

    Minibots Well-Known Member

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    What happened to this thread? God.
     
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  16. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Keep thinking that if it helps you
    pushing and calling your opinions facts again
    There are none so blind then those that refuse to open their eyes and see

    Read the words on the storyboard and follow it’s sequence, it clearly has Bombshells name on it and Cyclonus
    you are full of it
    You did say maybe the storyboard was a mistake” But you like to change history to help yourself so no surprise

    How does it matter what was in the artists minds in 1986?

    What ever they were thinking they still ended up chiseling Bombshell for Cyclonus and what they think now can’t change that fact
    Sorry but no
    That’s just not the case here

    Since you are a Star Trek fan I’ll explain it this way.Do you remember an episode if The next generation called “parallels”
    The one that Worf Travels to very similar but also different universe/timelines

    That’s the difference between Marvel G1 and Cartoon G1. Similar but different, With similar elements but different

    There is no evidence of mixing the Marvel g1 timelines inside of the G1 cartoon
    The words in the dialog are not a belief..The storyboard is not a belief.They are cold hard facts
    They are called empirical evidence

    Find a mirror and you will find a fool
    Product that became art maybe
    But that doesn’t change the intended purpose of the product

    Which changes nothing
    How can you be correct in what you were saying was never part of the conversation?

    Again no one ever said that religion can exist without spirituality
    The g1 animation ....”YES”.....
    In sense anyway ....animation models of nameless generic seeker jets of different colors were seen in many episodes of the G1 cartoon

    Some have become fan favorites and have been retroactively given names and toys over the past 30 or so years since the 80s....Sunstorm and Acidstorm are some of them

    But they weren’t named in the g1 cartoon, like Primon

    May I ask why you asked?
    There is also a Prima
    upload_2019-8-21_8-59-54.jpeg

    Why they use similar names I don’t know
    In this case to put the Quintessons
    They created both the planet and the robots

    So, a god of sorts to the robots
    Mechanical engineers to the planet

    Not a belief....stated in the dialog
    So now you want to deny that Unicron was a destructive force...you want to deny he was an artificially created planet that destroyed other worlds

    Ok
    Buddy
    Keep believing that if it helps you

    Maybe one of these days you’ll learn to go potty by yourself
    I know it’s my opinion that you keep providing so much evidence of it as you did with your second sentence

    Hopefully one of these days your maturity may outmatch your so-called intelligence And superiority
    Been there done that
    And thank you for proving that you’re reading and comprehension skills are in need of help

    I acknowledged the “possibility” of cybertron having an organic origin at the very beginning of this conversation

    If you were paying attention to what was posted you would have noticed that....So much for your superiority

    No that’s called the rules of debate
    I already answered these questions

    As you pointed out The quints were running a experimental Menagerie ( a zoo/lab if you don’t understand the word ) under the surface

    That’s where they created the trans-organics......

    Have you ever gone to a zoo or a lab that experiments on animals, many utilize habits for the animals they are working on trying to mimic their natural Environments

    The quints needed oxygen for their own organic parts so naturally they would have had a way to produce or import it to the factory

    And we learned in a season 3 episode “ the Quintason journal” that the quints created plant-o-bots” to create Oxygen on a different world

    As to the fish.....the Autobots brought the fish there and created a pond so that Danny and the Dinobots could have some fun

    Because they built it

    Many of the Europeans that came to America felt that America was their home also because they built on the land

    Note the language.
    And artificial planet can be whatever the creators of that planet wanted to be

    Note the term “home Is where the heart is”

    Any structure can be a home

    In fact less than a block from where I live there is an old factory that is being used now as an apartment building

    But I guess these concepts are too inferior for you to understand

    Funny as hell though
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  17. Gamerlingual

    Gamerlingual Officially licensed OS KO of Scourgatron Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    Keep it peaceful, guys. No one is trying outdo one another. PLAY NICE and thank you in advance.
     
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  18. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I understand
     
  19. AutoconDeceptibot

    AutoconDeceptibot Well-Known Member

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    This thread needs to end, its become the never ending story.
     
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  20. Minibots

    Minibots Well-Known Member

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    I swear I usually find stuff like this to be funny because I love to watch stuff like this go down but all of these spam posts are very annoying and the argument has been going on for days.
     
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