Who became cyclonus

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ChromedomeMaster, Apr 11, 2019.

?

Who became cyclonus?

Poll closed Apr 18, 2019.
  1. Skywarp

    14 vote(s)
    56.0%
  2. Bombshell

    11 vote(s)
    44.0%
  1. ABrown

    ABrown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Posts:
    2,058
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +574
    Why do the Insecticons appear in the third season? The real world answer is when the Five Faces of Darkness episodes were being created, the writers had no idea who the reformatted Decepticons (other than Galvatron) were. For all that they knew, they were all new characters. That's also why Cyclonus acts nothing like Bombshell. The most logical in story answer is to excuse them as leftover clones.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    So you think money alone motivated hasbro? You think g1 anime was only motivated by a need to sell toys?

    I say that people themselves caused it. Not money. Money simply has no soul or ability to create anything. I do not care what you read. The media is full of false information. And full of non sence.

    As for religion. Transformers is a modern myth. And myth is in the realm of religion. Religious topics are virtually in every episode. But i am not going to elaborate or try to prove anything to a closed minded soul such as yourself. You obviously already know your truths. My data would be merely noise that interferes with your truths.
     
  3. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    Are you one of the writers? Or are you representing any particular person responsible for the creation of the anime?
     
  4. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +1,303
    Not loading for me right now I’ll try to see it later
    I don’t think Alpha ever carried the matrix, but I think his connection goes deeper perhaps even to a point where he contributed to its creation
    I’ll take your word for it
    I can understand your thinking
    In the 80s?
    Yes
    And it’s foolish to think otherwise because there’s evidence of that throughout the entire series

    The strongest evidence is the movie itself and the killing of Optimus, and the others

    They killed off those characters because they wanted to to sell new toys

    The writers and actors gave transformers (comic/cartoon) a “soul” so to speak, but the people in charge never understood that in the 80s

    It itself may have become a modern myth, but the characters within the g1 cartoon .....from a in universe perspective, had no concept of a religious myth

    Religious topics were never handled in the G1cartoon

    But they were in the comics

    I’m not the one that’s closed mined here, you are the one that is closed minded to the facts and stick to your interpretations and beliefs like a religious zealot

    To make matters worse you are pushing your agenda calling it a FACT

    You have a right to believe what you want, but you can’t tell others that your beliefs are facts


    It’s s well known fact that the writers of 5 faces of darkness were working on the episode at Virtually the same time as the riders for the film

    It’s also a well-known fact that they had little to no Communication with the writers of the film
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  5. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113

    I dissagree with your reasoning. Humans are much more complicated than that. I know my sociology and anthropology. I am certain that humans have many many reasons why they do what they do. Transformers was not created because people wanted to sell and make money. I could explain....but i do not wish to. To complicated....and besides....you have your mind set programmed into your organic brain circuits.
     
  6. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    My beliefs are facts. They exist. But i never claimed that my beliefs are everyones beliefs.
    But....I bet you think that your beliefs are universal facts.

    You stated some facts about the writers. I do not see what you are trying to prove by that. To me this shows the plurality of minds at work and therefore inconsistency, contradiction, and multiple possibilities.
     
  7. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    To primeultra:
    I believe that beast wars is a continuation of g1. I bet their are other transformers fans that would agree with that.

    I will give you one example, of how religion is found in g1 animation: starscreams ghost. But i bet anything you reject that.
     
  8. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Posts:
    698
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +321
    The God Gambit was a religious themed episode, just not about potential Cybertron Gods.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +1,303
    You can disagree all you want doesn’t make you right

    Humans might be
    A business is not......And a business is pretty much an entirely as any individual

    I could explain it to you, but you will just tip toe around the facts as you have tried this entire debate

    Transformers was created because people wanted to sell and make money
    What are you working on a comedy routine?

    They are 2 different things, and the difference is this, your beliefs are not facts! Your beliefs are assumptions based on your past experience and knowledge. For example: ( hypothetical), you believe that you won't find true love. ... The FACT is that you are still waiting to come upon that true love.

    Some beliefs can be based on facts, Most of the belief you have expressed here or not based on solid plans.That’s not to say they are based on nothing at all but they are based on your interpretations of what you believe to have seen in the cartoon.....When in fact what was shown in the cartoon it’s self is open to interpretation and has never been clarified

    So in calling those examples of your interpretation a fact you are Telling everybody else what to believe

    I myself did not really speak much about what I believe, but what was actually stated and said within the confines of the series and the creators of the show

    Like I said earlier you can believe it

    And I’m sure there are millions of fans that would agree with it,

    Belief is not the issue here it was your claim that it was a fact that it was a direct continuation of the cartoon
    The idea that a persons persona or essence (ghost) can survive death is not Is not exclusively tied to religion

    Most people do feel they are explicitly tied together It would look very least I’ll give you that one

    But the cartoon didn’t really focus in on that aspect very much

    I’ve been nothing but civil and respectful to you, all the while you try to insult me with your passive aggressive comments trying to cover up your fruitless arguments

    What is your sociology tell you about the passive aggressive nature of individuals

    Weak
     
  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +1,303
    True enough
    What I was more speaking in relation to the transformers them selves and not the aliens they have encountered
     
  11. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    Everything you say is belief and opinion. You do not reprent any absolute universal true facts.
    You believe beast wars did not conginue g1
    You believe bombshell was cyclonus
    You believe cybertron was a factory created by quintessons.
    These are not facts. These are your interpretations of things. They are arbitrary opinions.

    As for that example of true love. If one was an autobot, then one has females. But if one was a decepticon one only has other males. And a decepticon is programmed to fight an autobot , and vice versa. And all robots are determined by programming to fight or to love.
    Therefore no decepticon could ever love an autobot. Maybee though Megatron might have loved nightbird, but he certainly could never love starscream or optimus prime.
    This analogy could be applied to individuals reality as well.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  12. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    Another example: Rodimus prime going into the matrix to find answers about the past and creation. (In 5 faces of darkness)
    Many Shamans go through vision quests in a very similar way.
     
  13. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    200px-Megatron_Primal_Nemesis_2.JPG.jpg 200px-Megatron_Primal_Nemesis_2.JPG.jpg 200px-Megatron_Primal_Nemesis_2.JPG.jpg
    Your flawed logic shows itself by your words. You say that my dissagreements does not make me "right"
    That is like megatron being told by optimus prime that his dissagreement does not make him right. From megatrons point of view he is right and optimus is the one who is wrong.

    In my opinion transformers was created because people have biological programming that urges them to be social creatures, and to communicate using objects of culture which they create.
     
  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +1,303
    Sorry but no
    Everything that I told you about the show, and the writers was a fact
    A fact out of their own words
    You may not like it but that doesn’t change the fact that it was said

    It’s s fact that the film shows A bombshell body type becoming cyclones

    The storyboards , pre-production material from the film, and the proves it’s a fact, the final film proves the storyboards a fact

    It’s s fact that cybertron was a factory created by quintessons.

    The savior and dialog of ex 5 faces of darkness” proves its a fact

    These are solid 100% undeniable facts.
    Not interpretations of things that were never made clear by undeniable empirical evidence

    Again, I’m sorry you don’t Kline it, but they are facts, period

    My example of true love had nothing to do with transformers, but since you brought it up......but it’s possible the decepticons once had females also and we just never saw them

    There’s no reason to assume that a female can’t be programmed to fight, there is also no reason to assume no decepticon could ever love an autobot.......

    1)we have seen them them become “friendly” in the G1 cartoon
    2)G1 toy tech specs and Marvel Bios have examples of Transformers switching sides
    3) Beast Wars has an example of a Pred loving a Maxie

    I wouldn’t say it’s impossible

    Not a bad example of not completely on point either

    Spiritually and religion don’t always go hand in hand......In fact many atheists believe in some form of spirituality

    And while what Rodimus experience resembled a VisionQuest, It certainly was not undertaken in anyway similar to a VisionQuest

    So again, not an example of transformers and religion

    Talk about flawed logic
    You are comparing apples to oranges

    The disagreements between Optimus and megatron are ideological

    The difference between you and me are about cold hard facts and your opinions and Your perspectives

    You really can’t compare the two situations
    And you’re welcome to your opinion

    But that’s pretty much a “big picture” point of view, You might even say “biggest picture” ever point of view since that thinking can be applied to any creation ever made

    What I was referring to was more the driving force that went into creating transformers the brand itself in particular .

    Not the driving force behind the artist and creators that worked on the series but the people that hired the artist and creators to make the series

    The Hasbro Executives that hires the people at Marvel

    The Has execs weren’t trying to communicate anything other then “let’s make cash”
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    You are a bold one. You seem to think that your facts alone are truth. But with every fact you give i too can counter them with facts that dissprove everything you believe.

    Fact: the film also shows skywarp being changed into cyclonus.

    Fact: the insecticons appear after cyclonus came into existence. (So who turned into sweeps and a cyclonus then?)

    Fact: cybertron was called "a planet" in many many episodes. In fact, right from the very start: (season 1 episode 1) look at a dictionary and notice how a planet is not a factory.

    Fact: we are told cybertron has "many cities". We are shown that cybertron has many things on it: Example: libraries, military zones; cultural centers; roads; and other things found in a civilization. This proves that cybertron is not a factory.

    Fact: your "savior" is a senile autobot fool from a decepticon perspective. Many Decepticons might consider megatron as their true savior".

    Like it or not, it is you who are flawed and wrong.
     
  16. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    [\QUOTE]

    My example of true love had nothing to do with transformers, but since you brought it up......but it’s possible the decepticons once had females also and we just never saw them

    There’s no reason to assume that a female can’t be programmed to fight, there is also no reason to assume no decepticon could ever love an autobot.......

    1)we have seen them them become “friendly” in the G1 cartoon
    2)G1 toy tech specs and Marvel Bios have examples of Transformers switching sides
    3) Beast Wars has an example of a Pred loving a Maxie

    I wouldn’t say it’s impossible



    Not a bad example of not completely on point either

    Spiritually and religion don’t always go hand in hand......In fact many atheists believe in some form of spirituality

    And while what Rodimus experience resembled a VisionQuest, It certainly was not undertaken in anyway similar to a VisionQuest

    So again, not an example of transformers and religion
    [/QUOTE]

    i do not know what the hell you meant by "true love" But i know what i meant. I am not going to say anything to dispute your words on this matter.

    Fact: spirituality is linked to religion. If an athiest is "spiritual" then they are religious. They might not hold the christian religion, but they are into some other kind of religion. A spiritual atheist is not a true atheist. They might reject christianity, but they are into some kind of animism, or new age religion, if they are spiritual .
     
  17. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    You need to get better logic. I suggest you study shockwave more, and learn to get out of your self more, in order to learn from your superiors.

    Fact: money or economy does not create culture. Basic anthropology 101: it is rather humans who create culture, which in turn may resolve around money or economic affairs.

    So wrong again.
     
  18. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +1,303
    You think you are my superiors?

    Boy that’s rich, you haven’t provided one example of solid evidence throughout this entire debate

    I repeat, i’ve been nothing but cordial and polite to you yet you continue to insult .These Passive aggressive comments prove that your entire stance is founded on weakness, not to mention it’s evidence of a seriously week personality

    You must be making up for some really big shortcomings in your life with a comment like that.Sorry you’re just gonna have to except it, all your so-called education hasn’t helped you here

    Funny
    Nothing you have posted as a “counter” has disproved any of the facts I posted

    Because they can’t

    Fact: the film a
    shows skywarp being changed into a member of “the armada”, a team of ”cyclonus look alikes” no different the how the film showed kickback and Shrapnel becoming the “Sweeps” a team of “Scourge look alikes”

    Fact: the insecticons have many clones, so that they continue to appear after the film is no shock

    Fact: “Eons ago CYBERTON was a FACTORY BUILT by the QUINTASONS”” That beats your counter right there, but just to be clear...The transformers is science fiction cartoon.... And science fiction as many examples of artificial planets,

    And artificial planet can be anything the creators wanted to be.....Just look at Unicron

    Fact: In the real world, people take old factories and repurposed them into living Facilities such as Apartment buildings or condos, Many towns have been built up around factories and other manufactured type facilities , I am with those towns came :libraries, military zones; cultural centers; roads; and other things found in a civilization.

    This the transformers did the same thing to the factory they were built in when they ran the quints off cybertron

    Question: "my savior" ?What exactly are you talking about here?
    Is it Primus....because I never called him a savior
    And even if you are talking about Primus...it doesn’t matter if the Decepticons consider Megatron their true savior".

    That doesn’t counter the FACT that Primus is part of a god myth

    Sorry my friend Like it or not, you have not countered one single FACT

    it is you who are flawed and wrong.

    You really don’t know how to conduct a a debate do you

    Fact: spirituality is Not exclusively linked to religion.

    Who the hell are you to tell an If an athirst that they are religious or not a true athirst?

    And you call be “a bold one”

    Fact: Creating Culture was not the motivation behind creating the transformers brand....money and economy was

    Transformers may have become part of our culture....but it could have just faded away at day one becoming nothing

    So once again you are wrong

    You really need to learn how to participate in a debate, and you need to learn the difference between actual facts and your perceptions. I suggest you go back to Elementary school , and learn to get out of your little narrow minded world a bit and learn from other people and how to conduct your self in public
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  19. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Posts:
    2,233
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +1,303
    I wanted to touch on this a bit more

    Have you ever been inside of a very big manufacturing facility/factory or a very large military base?

    Have you ever heard of Mill/Factory or Military Towns?I’m sure you have with all your so-called sociology education

    They all contain libraries, military-security zones; cultural centers; roads; and other things found in a civilization as well.This proves that cybertron could have been a factory.Besides that the dialogue in the cartoon states it clearly

    Even smaller factories and military bases have scaled down versions of these things

    Even many Home Depot’s have...
    A library....largely full of product knowledge but also other information that has little to nothing to do with store operations

    A security some zone which is the equal of a military zone for its needs

    A break room, which severe as a cultural center for the employees

    A parking lot, walkways and Isles within the store that serves as the equivalent roads

    Your argument is just full of holes
     
  20. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Posts:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    72
    Likes:
    +113
    You do not know my argument.
    I actually approve of this analogy of how cybertronian civilization began as a factory.

    Where my view differs from yours is that i believe the quintessons colonized a planet and built upon it. They then christianed their new civilization based on a factories foundations, cybertron. Intelligent beings just love to name their colonies and planets.

    But you do make a good point about the possibility of an artificial planet such as unicron.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019