Who became cyclonus

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by ChromedomeMaster, Apr 11, 2019.

?

Who became cyclonus?

Poll closed Apr 18, 2019.
  1. Skywarp

    14 vote(s)
    56.0%
  2. Bombshell

    11 vote(s)
    44.0%
  1. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    No you are just misunderstanding things

    Argument means debating, siting points and counter points
    Again, it was originally built as a factory and became more

    It’s not unheard of for a company or manufacturing facility or the military to build up living facilities on site or nearby, even what I would call Neighborhoods on site or nearby for the employees and officers to reside and live around

    You can describe what ever you want but it proves nothing other then that cybertron changed over the millions of years after it was built

    This is not a point of view issue, The facts and the truth are in the dialog spoken by the first leader in the matrix

    You can continue denying it
    I never denied that it was a planet

    But it was an artificially created one, to serve as a factory

    An artificially built planet can be anything it’s creators want it to be

    Just look at Unicron.....he was a planet also.....one that destroyed other planets

    I’m sorry but you continue to make weak points
    You are seeing what you want to see

    The dialog clearly says it was built to be a factory
     
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  2. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Okay. A sound argument.
    But this assumes that cybertron was created by the quintessons. It dissmisses the organic elements that predate the quintessons. Their is other evidence suggesting this. And it does not contradict the statement by that first leader. Even a factory needs a foundation to be built on. And that foundation was an organic cybertron that predates the quintessons. 7A5F08B4-3C1D-4B8D-88FE-C7EE7225A288.jpeg.jpg
     
  3. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Quintessons have been known to travel to other worlds and dwell in them. Cybertron in the quintesson age had civilization. They had courts, entertainment centers, science labs, libraries, military bases, and much much more than just factories where the consumer goods worked. (primitive ancestors of autobots)
    It is possible that the quintessons merely colonized an allready existing planet, and turned it into a kind of factory. 350px-MadmansParadise_Mara-Al-Utha.jpg 250px-MadmansParadise_Mara-Al-Utha_red_wizard_form.jpg
     
  4. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Again, I’m only stating the facts stated in the dialog

    So there’s no assumptions, the dialog makes a clear declaration.. Cybertron was built by the Quints

    Fact

    There is no evidence that any of the organic elements found in the g1 cartoon cybertron predate the quintessons.

    In fact, The evidence in question, the caves, are the location of a quint lab...:so they don’t predate anything

    The only evidence we are of a organic cybertron comes from beast machines.....and as it’s been stated, that’s a different continuity so it’s not evidence when talking about the g1 cartoon

    A artificially built planet could have been built anywhere, it could have been built in space or built on a different world and then transported to that location

    There’s is no proof positive that the g1 cartoon cybertron was ever organic

    This was a better attempt
    Care to try again?

    Oh , I guess you did....
    And?
    What’s your point?
    That doesn’t change the information given by the leader in the matrix

    Cybertron was built by the quints....not visited, not occupied , not dwelled on....Cybertron was built

    And I’m sure the quints once had a flourishing civilization, with all the little things you mentioned

    that still changes nothing of the info given in 5 faces of darkness

    What ever their ancient history is, at some point they went into the business of creating robots and other things to sell to the inhabitants of other worlds

    So they built cybertron, a factory to manufacture those products to sell and use as they saw fit

    While I cant say there’s no possibility that the quintessons merely colonized a pre-existing planet .....that would mean that the first leader to speak from the matrix was either wrong or lying

    And i cant imagine he would have lied
    So for your “possibility” to be right the leader would have had to be wrong

    And I see no reason to assume that, none of the evidence is strong enough, alone or together, to indicate the leader would have been wrong

    Again....a good attempt
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  5. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Totally dissagree.

    And you even confessed before, that beast wars was a continuation of g1.

    And beast machines is a continuation of beast wars.

    You are wrong. I totally dissagree. Cybertron did not begin with the quintessons.

    The only thing that began with the quintessons was that metallic top layer coating of the planet.

    You seem to be an orthodox transformer believer. Do you believe in only g1? Or did the saga continue in beast wars?

    Regardless of your beliefs though, even g1 attests to the organic background of cybertron.

    Tell me what you make of the testimony of vector sigma. The computer said: "before cybertron was, i was" that means this computer predates the covenant of primus, and that first prime leader. It even predates "cybertron" what do you make of that?
    400px-VectorSigmaG1.jpg
     
  6. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Question number 2 and 3 for you:

    2. Why would the quintessons call cybertron their home?

    (Consider also that a home is actually built on land. And that the cybertronian factories also where built on land.)

    3. If the quintessons themselves claim cybertron as their home? Why are not the quintessons robots themselves? Why are the quintessons organic creatures with green flesh? Who created the quintessons? What are the origins of the quintessons who call cybertron their home, before the transformers kicked them out.

    250px-ForeverLongTimeComing_various_Quintessons.jpg
     
  7. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Got a 4th point and question for primeultra:

    Going back to a previous issue addressed concerning the Vok. I am not convinced that they are the swarm of the g2 comics. No evidence to support this conclusion. This is just a popular theory going around in the fandom. Beast wars has nothing that links the vok with g2 comics swarm. All we know is that they are aliens from a place called nexus zero. And that they lack physical bodies. And that they have much interest in prehistoric earth, and that they viewed transformer aliens as contaminating their "project" (whatever that was).

    So my question to you is:
    4. can you offer proof that the vok is the g2 comic swarm?

    300px-Purple_vok.jpg
     
  8. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    You can disagree all you want...but you are only denying facts

    And I think you need glasses because I admired so such thing
    my first reply on this topic was to say the Beast was was a different continuity then the G1 cartoon

    As you have been told , the show’s writers took from the comic and the cartoon to form the back story of Beast Wars......making it , by default, not a direct sequel to either

    It’s a different continuity/universe.So I’m sorry to tell you but.....You are wrong.

    The dialog is clear Cybertron was built by the quintessons.

    There has never been only g1, from the very beginning there were several different and separate g1 continuities , from the top of my head there was

    Marvel US G1 continuity
    Sunbow G1 cartoon continuity
    Marvel UK G1 Continuity
    Ladybird books G1 continuity
    Blackthorn comics G1 continuity

    I’m sure there are more, but each of these were separate and different G1 continuities/universes

    And when the Beast Wars show was made, they created yet an other G1 continuity. Later we got other G1 continuities like Dreamwave and IDW

    But none of them are a single continuity/universe.....and Beast wars is not a direct continuation of either the comics or the cartoon

    You can believe what you want, but nothing you posted is proof positive that the cybertron of the g1 cartoon ever had an organic background.

    Boy that’s an easy one.....

    the Quints created vector sigma first....years before they built cybertron and then had it moved to the factory so they could start mass production of the robots

    “ what do you make of that?”

    Poor attempt this time
    Even easier answer
    They built it
    Many people come to consider the places they built as their homes

    also a home can be built anywhere......even here on earth there are people that have homes at sea, and Considering that this is a science-fiction series, a home could build rebuild just about anywhere even in the dead of space
    You really are getting worse at this with each question

    Their full origins were never developed
    Did they create them self, or created by others....who’s to say

    . I hope this is a good one, because the others....not so much


    Other then the words of the show’s creators themselves you mean

    It was their intent that they be the evolved swarm from the G2 comics but the Vok didn’t make many more Appearances in the cartoon, so you being convinced is irrelevant

    So my answer to you is: you have already been given the information you requested

    You were even provided with a link to a comic book written by Bob Forward, writer and story editor of the beast war cartoon in which he actually made the connection

    You can continue to deny facts if you like but they are still the facts
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  9. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    All of the characters that were used to create Galvatron's new troops showed up again later in the same movie. ALL at the coronation, and later than that.


    The only logical conclusion is that they were Insecticon clones and background Seekers that happen to share the same deco as Thundercracker and Skywarp.
     
  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I could except that

    The opposite could also be true and that it was the originals that got upgraded and clones and generics that remained
     
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  11. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    You heartless fiend, don't take Skywarp away from me like that (sniff...)
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Ha
    Don’t worry I like Purple too much
     
  13. Mecheon

    Mecheon Grumpy Dinosaur Nerd

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    One of the writers of the show said that that was the idea he was going to put in, and later work went with that as the explanation. Can't get more evidence than "The person who wrote the thing said this was his plan"

    The other going theory was that it was the endpoint of life in the universe, but the Vok one was the one people picked up and went with
     
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  14. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    I used that argument regarding HMS and WFC/FOC, and got dismissed. Be aware that writer's intent isn't necessarily good enough to some.
     
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  15. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It is clear to me that the idea of the vok was certainly inspired by g2 comic swarm, (by the writer (s).

    But what i am not convinced, is that the actual vok character is the same thing as the swarm, or that beast wars is a continuation of g2 comic book line.
     
  16. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    We are ultimately judging art. The intent of the creators of art does matter to some extent. But so does the individuals judgement of the art. Example: one can choose whether to like it or not; or whether to interpret it like this or like that.
     
  17. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    My opinion so far is that the vok are in fact original characters. They first appeared in beast wars. The idea for these characters where heavily inspired from g2 comic book character called the swarm, (according to the artists who created them).
     
  18. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    As for my orthodox freind:

    He believes cybertron was a kind of "death star" or big space factory created by quintessons.

    I believe that to be the case for unicron alone. (Created by primacon) out of no pre existing planet.

    But cybertron is not like that. It was a planet with a longer history than transformers or even quintessons. But both quints and transformers built a metalic civilization on this planet and called it cybertron their home.

    My beliefs and opinions are based ptimarily on g1 sources. In particular the g1 animation artwork.
     
  19. tigatron2002

    tigatron2002 Well-Known Member

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    the vok being an evolution of the swarm was canonized by one of the beast wars show runners after the fact in an officially produced and acknowledged comic. period, no debate, that is their origin whether you are convinced or not. its a stronger case than authorial intent because it actually made it into produced fiction

    edit: two officially recognized comics actually, here is their information from the beast wars sourcebook

    "The Vok are the enlightened evolution of the Swarm, a combination of Cybertronian, human, and mysterious lizard species life. Their aim is to find the optimal path of development for the sources of their components, especially Cybertronians."
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  20. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    See that? That's called multiquote. You can click in on every single post to collect it all in one reply so as to not bury the thread in windows all by the same person.


    Now, if you can imagine how annoying it must be when someone doesn't multiquote, imagine how much worse it is when somebody posts replies like a damn text chain instead of a forum.


    Just saying.
     
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