Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by starquantumstratos85, Feb 12, 2018.
Pssst, I think he was being sarcastic.
Maybe, it’s hard to tell on these boards to be honest, it wouldn’t surprise me if there are people that really think they were once completely diecast
They started going down in quality the moment you, personally, the person reading this post, was first disappointed in one.
It doesn't matter if diecast was actually a detriment to the long-term survival of a figure, if rubber tires tended to crack and break over time, if rising oil costs and lower consumer interest in toys resulted in higher prices for supply. The reason behind the decline, and the start of it, is entirely where you, the reader, have decided it is.
You're never incorrect. Your opinions don't need to be reexamined. Anyone disagreeing with you hates you, personally, and is knowingly lying to hurt you.
Transformers were ruined forever with the release of Diaclone Countach LP500S. You could see how they were cheaping out on production costs, all went downhill there.
Shhh. Get outta here with your facts.
It's really a figure by figure issue.
With the introduction of the cheap Legend size class and the gradual phasing out of the scout class.
The introduction of stylised aesthetics like the no nose Prime series and the Bay abominations like Frenzy and Brains.
Titans Return did bring the legends figures closer to the old scout class which I was delighted to see but POTP has undone that.
The fact that you have to sit the master figure on the roof of the jeep component of the Battletrap duo instead of inside the vehicle like you could with Brawn is a definite regression in my eyes.
The Primemaster gimmick with the glyphs replacing the actual faces of the Titanmasters and doing absolutely nothing apart from look stupid is akin to the franchise growing gills and walking backwards into the sea.
Along with Cyber Planet Keys, Primemasters is the joint worst gimmick the franchise has ever given us. Actually it is the worst gimmick as it took the glorious Titanmasters and removed what made them great.
Oh and let's not forget the bland grey plastic they've been using lately and the fact I had to paint the faces of relatively expensive Voyager toys i.e. Megatron and Galvatron, to give them some semblance of character.
Deep breath....and release...
True. Some of todays figures are better designed and less hollow than some figures from ten years ago. And the reverse.
An oil crisis for oil companies means the oil basket price drops, that is a crisis for oil companies, of course not for everyone else.
Let me quote myself from other thread:
Don't forget the raw material. If your raw material decreased more than 100% , really more, even more than 700% , what is going to happen with your final price?
In the Transformers world, the final price increases and the plastic quality decreases
Looks like the approach of the evil petroleum companies doesn't work. Oil basket price is not the reason of the higher prices of Transformers and the cheap hollow plastic syndrome. The lower plastic quality compared with Transformers Cybertron, for example
It started with DotM and briefly paused for Prime First Edition. Then mainline Prime and the FoC Generations hit with a huge drop in quality. Figures were smaller, thinner, and underpainted. I chalk that huge drop up to DotM's budget cuts being applied to a design team without Eric Siebenaler. There was definitely a quality increase after a year or so, though, with Thrilling 30 being pretty solid for the most part with the exception of IDW Bumblebee, Skids, and specifically the figures bigger than Legends that John Warden worked on.
Then Archer left, and boy did Warden make his presence known. Hollowness, mold repetitiveness, and filler repaints ran rampant. The deluxes got a whole lot simpler as well but I give that a pass largely because it made for stable-ish combiners. Titans Return was hit-and-miss with the good figures being counterbalanced by the headmastered "MP-lite" '86 figures who suffered for the gimmick, re: Galvatron, Perceptor, Blaster, Hot Rod, and so on, and later the absolutely horrific foil stickers sloppily applied at the factory. One thing I want to note is that we began to stop getting classics-style new designs in this line, and that really, really sucks.
Oh boy, Power of the Primes. Apparently the power of the Primes is to take the worst aspects of the last three lines and mash them together. MP-lite, sticker covered, undersized, compromised by gimmicks, and bad repaint/remolds, all in one package. This is without a doubt the lowest the toyline has been in over a decade. It's a low budget line that can't decide if it's aimed at post-tween fans or small children, built on a foundation of bad ideas. I'd hope we can only go up from here but I think we'll see thigh swivels and waist joints being phased out next.
I grew up with Machine Wars as the line I remember most. I missed the original run just a bit. So like the quality has always been up and down? Sometimes paint is good but articulation is bad, sometimes paint is bad but articulation is good?
By and far I look at the CW Optimus I have on my shelf now and he's durable and fun and well made, and it reminds me of the Optimus from Machine Wars and he was just... A steaming pile of crap with zero articulation. Not to mention even worse if you had Thunderblast or whatever he's called from the same mold but wrought with a buttload of gold plastic syndrome.
cant argue with phasing out the scouts
stylised aesthetics can have their place
potp legends are nearly exactly the same in quality as all of the legends have been through thrilling 30, cw and tr
its a legends combiner, we all know that some gimmicks suffer for the sake of others
faces wouldnt make sense for primemasters since they arent supposed to be heads
primemasters are actually one of the most innocuous and least intrusive gimmicks the line has ever had, theyre largely ignorable by every size class aside from the primemasters themselves
cant argue with ugly grey plastic other really
I completely agree with the first response to this question. That kind of quality returned for a short period when Alternators/Binaltech was alive, but then was cancelled in favor for the movie line.
I still have have my Binaltech/Alternator!
Pity older generations are in short supply.
Will the newer generations toys last as long?
Put CW LEGEND Hot Rod beside Titans Return Wheelie or Bumblebee and tell me how wrong they look together.
They're the least intrusive because they do nothing. They add nothing to the play value and don't activate any gimmick.
I was really enjoying the Titanmasters in terms of interactivity and even bringing a loose sense of scale to the line.
But the Primemasters don't. They don't form heads, offer customisation potential or worst of All, can't interact as a driver or pilot with any of the POTP lines above legends.
Don't get me wrong, I've liked Tailgate, Beachcomber, Rodimus Prime and the Pretenders.
I'm looking forward to the Dinobots, Terrorcons and Predacons. I just don't like the Primemasters themselves.
Fair enough granted I think the primemasters offer decent customizing if you think outside the box, micronus prime and a combiner fist finally let me finish a “powermaster” getaway custom I made from 07 movie breakaway and titans return breakaways head
I remember the time Bulletbike was the pinnacle of the Transformers brand. I wish we had more quality figures like that today!!
Because they're accomplishing two different things.
The Legends class pre-Titans were their own standalone figures who's only interaction was with the combiners, when they had it.
Starting with Titans (and we'll see how long they roll with it) the Legends class were turned into vehicles the little figures could ride around on/in. While also providing vehicles that worked on the ramps/bases formed by the larger sized figures.
First off, if you use your imagination those Prime Masters work as heads if you want. And if you don't want to use your imagination, they can still be used as power-ups in the armor that comes with Deluxe and Voyager class figures, or as Sparks within the chest of Leader class figures.
If you don't have any PotP or Titans figures available, they can still be stored within their Decoy suit while it's in weapon mode. Or you can plug the Primemaster *into the weapon mode* and use that as power-up style armor for any figure that can hold the weapon.
I'll preface my post saying that I have a Minor in Business, as well as about 10 years working in retail part time (since high school).
Fall of Cybertron. While the plastic quality did improve overtime, the overall engineering and design budget hasn't changed much. Articulation is still pretty much the same as its been since. Back in the day, Hasbro had to actually try and put out sturdier, heftier figures for collectors and kids to care about/want to play with. Nowadays, like most entertainment properties, BRANDING has pretty much destroyed much of the IP's integrity.
Think of what you want about the actual quality of the Transformers movies themselves. They launched Transformers back into the public spotlight in a way they hadn't been since the late 80s (if not, since Beast Wars). They're using nostalgia and the BRAND name of Transformers as a selling point than the actual, mediocre-engineering used on the toys nowadays. Terms like "state of the art", "cool", "awesome", "best ever" etc business speak that Warden and company use in advertising and at conventions mean basically nothing. They use those terms because, legally, they are opinion based claims rather than factual ones. Therefore, there's nothing stopping them from saying such things.
TLDR: BRANDING strategies, in businesses in general, have shifted the focus of the marketplace away from a product-based market and into a BRAND-focused market. To a big toy business, like Hasbro, it's less about giving the child/collector a fun or sturdy or detailed or articulate or "wow" factor with a toy anymore. It's about selling the "Transformers" BRAND. Yes, it's a shitty reality.
What baffles me the most is how most Voyagers have gone up in price maybe $5 over the last ten years and have stayed relatively the same size. Conversely, Deluxes are almost twice as expensive as they were in most stores, and yet they have reduced articulation, features, and overall mass than a figure of say the Animated, ROTF, or DOTM lines.
Alas, this is the John Warden era of Transformers. We don't have fun with our toys, we have "play ecosystems."
For the inevitable rebuttal from people who claim that children, the prime audience, don't really care about toy quality, articulation, etc because all they want is their favorite character to play with...may I point you in the direction of Star Wars toys post-The Force Awakens. I work at Target as a cashier on the weekends and have been doing so since last April. At least in the Washington DC area, the only Star Wars stuff that kids really care about anymore are LEGOs and the lightsabers/blasters. As for the collectors, it's the Black Series. The rest of it all clogs the shelves like arterial plaque.
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