When are knock offs justified?

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Arrogant Arachnid, Feb 12, 2020 at 7:01 AM.

  1. Arrogant Arachnid

    Arrogant Arachnid Well-Known Member

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    So knock offs have been around for quite some time now. Although I'd say that since a few years ago knock offs have actually stepped up their game. My question is, when do you consider it justified to buy knock offs? Here are my justifications:
    -When the knock off creates it's own unique repaint (Studio Series Nemesis Prime)
    -Complete reworks of existing figures, like newly molded pieces or new features(Like what companies like Weijiang, Kubianbao do)
    -Oversized figures
    -And this one is a bit more controversial, current day Masterpiece figures. Personally I feel that Takara is raising the prices yet lowering the engineering and quality, so paying 60 bucks for a KO rather than 250 for a real one is in my opinion, understandable.
    EDIT: I worded this a bit wrong when using the word "justify." What I meant was among the lines of "What makes you buy a knock off" for example.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020 at 11:51 AM
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  2. sideswipe29

    sideswipe29 Collect what makes you happy

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    I predict that a good number of responses are going to be "Never."
     
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  3. Maximus Danz

    Maximus Danz DIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-CLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!!!!

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    I pretty much agree with everything you said, like the scale stuff with the TR headmasters.
    The only other rules I have are:

    1. If they are lines I missed and are outrageously expensive like combiner wars. Why should I pay $100 for a combiner when I can pay $35 for something that functions the same with similar quality.

    2. Customizing. I'm big into customs but sometimes (again, like combiner wars) don't want to destroy a good figure someone could use.
     
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  4. Warpshard

    Warpshard Well-Known Member

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    Most of the stuff already said. If they improve the figure, give us a new repaint, provide easier access to an old toy, make it bigger, or in the case of a Masterpiece, just provide a cheaper option for similar quality.

    Honestly, the only example of a KO not being "justified" nowadays would be knocking off more recent, cheaper figures (I.E Studio Series, Siege, or Cyberverse) and not upscaling them or providing extra paint.
     
  5. smkheidze

    smkheidze sideswipe and sideswipe and even more sideswipe.

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    Mp-47.... the prime example.
     
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  6. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    When they're available. My personal threshold for whether the pull the trigger is based on a rough subjective assessment of value/cost, especially if it exceeds the original official figure in some capacity.
     
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  7. Grievlocke

    Grievlocke 5mm Addict TFW2005 Supporter

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    When figures, both official and 3P become widely unavailable or the price becomes unrealistic is generally when I have no problem with KOs.
     
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  8. Fretburn

    Fretburn We need Instrument TFs

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    They're never really justified. KOs are theft.

    If you want one, buy one. You don't need to try to contort yourself into weird moralistic arguments to justify.

    If one feels guilt buying one then don't buy it.

    Ye gods this fandom and it's weird obsessions.
     
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  9. tabtiurf

    tabtiurf Chimeracon

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    Exactly who are you having to justify them to?

    Buy whatever you want. Toy company IP is not your concern.
     
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  10. Calabask

    Calabask Waspinator Cultist

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    When Prime costs $400. Ain’t nobody got the time or Money for that.
     
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  11. Arrogant Arachnid

    Arrogant Arachnid Well-Known Member

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    Oh I'm not trying to justify it to anyone. I just wanna hear what people think about KOs

    Seems like you kinda misunderstood my intent, my man.
    Sure you could argue they're never justified in a general sense, but that wasn't my question. I was simply asking why people would buy a KO. Really has nothing to do with morality or guilt, haha.
    And I'm not really sure how one question can be considered an obsession, but you do you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2020 at 10:46 AM
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  12. Stryder Wolfe

    Stryder Wolfe Is it...Safe???

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    1. For use as spare parts or customization fodder

    2. when they are significantly modified (oversized, changed engineering etc)

    3. Really they aren’t ever but let’s be reasonable here :D 
     
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  13. MegaMoonMan

    MegaMoonMan OFFICIAL MMM REP

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  14. Ryuune

    Ryuune Well-Known Member

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    Actually none of the above are valid reason to justify a KO, except maybe the complete reworking of a figure, but in that case it's not exactly a KO but a new figure. And Weijiang and Kubianbao do not do complete reworks, just oversize/downsize of the exact figure.

    Buying the KO might be (partially) justifiable when it does not harm the original producer anymore, for example you can not really find the original Warbotron bruticus new anymore, so buying the oversize KO does not really harm them anymore (it did back then tho)

    This said, i bought my fair share of KO as well, as I think most of us has.
     
  15. StriderHiryu

    StriderHiryu Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think justifiable is the wrong word. You don't need anyone's validation for how you spend your money. Also, for some, getting a KO is more an emotion based buy to stick it up TT's ass. Like.. "F*** TT and their prices! I'm getting the KO". Or "F*** TT and their S*** QC! KO fixes it!"
     
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  16. Mentasm

    Mentasm I check in, but I don't check out.

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    No, that's MP-44 ;) 

    No, they're copyright/IP infringement. You're not physically depriving anyone of anything tangible.

    The fucker who stole my bike on NYE was a thief. If he'd copied the design and then paid someone to make a cheaper version of it I wouldn't have given a toss and I could still have sold it to someone else should I have desired to do so.
     
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  17. Snaku

    Snaku Well-Known Member

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    Justified? Never, but I guess I'm chaotic neutral because I just don't care about justifying it.

    I buy a KO if it's comparable quality for cheaper, or lower but still acceptable quality for even cheaper (sometimes I'd rather have a character checking a box than have the best fanciest version). And if the KO is an improvement, like IT Megatron, that's even better. I don't buy the officials out of any sense of loyalty or morality - I bought the official MP Sunstreaker because I didn't trust that the eventual KO would be good enough quality with his intricate transformation. I bought the official Blackarachnia because I wanted to own her right away rather than wait for the eventual KO. I bought the KOs of most of the old MP carbots because they were almost as good for less than half the price. I didn't buy the KO Inferno because they simplified his grill for some reason - ended up getting MMC instead because I liked the more greebly look but also because he was considerably cheaper.

    I suppose I do have a bit of a rationalization and that is that I tend to not believe that I have enough of an impact to matter. Meaning my buying a KO isn't enough to make the original company sink or swim. I realize that's tragedy of the commons and all that and yet I still don't care. My decision isn't going to make the "commons" decide to do the right thing or the wrong thing.
     
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  18. TRANZ4MR

    TRANZ4MR General Thud

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    There is NO justification really… especially for the companies that ACTUALLY make them (moreso the straight up KO's, than 3P [ID theft] or the companies that ACTUALLY make them).
    But I personally, am COMPLETELY fine with them doing so, and hope they continue as I really do feel Takara/Hasbro is price gouging the HELL out of plastic… even the ones you find at Target & WallyWorld.

    So that being said, I own quite a few. They stand along side my originals, and they do so beautifully.
    For me, it boils down to two things (three, if you count $).
    1. If I want a duplicate of a figure (for instance MP BW Megs or Dinobutt), I'm not paying $250+ for a 2nd figure to display in beast mode. WILL NOT HAPPEN. EVER!
    I HAVE doubled up on "real" figs in the past (ex. MP Primal & Cheetor), but ONLY because I found them at "used" prices, second-hand.
    2. If I don't care enough about the figure to add to my collection (MP Ratchet & Sunstreaker come to mind) I was content on missing them & completing my collection without them.
    However, both were KO'd, with reasonable quality, at a reasonable price, so now they've been added to my collection.
     
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  19. Fretburn

    Fretburn We need Instrument TFs

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    Which is also known as IP theft. And most of the time the KOs are made using stolen CAD files. Trying to argue that because a physical object has not been taken and as such is not theft is being absurdly pedantic just for the sake of it.

    People that produce a thing by using someone else's work are effectively stealing their ideas, concepts, their work.

    Ask a five year old what the word we use for taking something that does not belong to you.

    People have tried that absurd "it's not theft" horseshit with file sharing for over 20 years. It's just a pisspoor attempt to getting around a concept by attempting to force an extremely rigid definition on a concept to suit their own needs. Just own that shit.
     
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  20. octobotimus

    octobotimus Plastic Criminal

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    They are justified when you spent your hard earned money on it. What you buy is up to you, who cares what it is.
     
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