What's the connection between FansProject, Maas Toys, Action Toys, and MakeToys?

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Cardboard Bots, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. msol

    msol Well-Known Member

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    I guess it was always my impression that they did it with the original CAD files or stolen molds. But I’m no expert on this stuff.
     
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  2. xueyue2

    xueyue2 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really surprised. These companies need to do what ever profitable to survive.
    In the XTB Locke's thread, there was a old pictures of KFC/XTB making Citizen Stack. From that pic, I think KFC/XTB was also making plastic folding chairs then.

    And today I read this post from Baidu.
    黑曼巴真的飘了 我广州朋友跟我说,佛山加工厂ko救护车塑料等基础材料成本不到40块一个 工人拼装费一个人拼一个20块钱【变形金刚玩具吧】_百度贴吧
    This poster himself is factory owner making stainless steel cabinet, while his friend/partner's factory did the KO OS SS Megatron for BMB (LS06 Megatron).

    It's very interesting posts and has a lot details about the cost and profit of transformer KO in China, the poster using the latest BMB KO MPM Ratchet as example.
    1) all the basic material about 40 RMB.
    2) worker assembles one toy get 20 RMB.
    3) adding all the package, so the total cost for KO MPM Ratchet is less than 70 RBM

    While BMB is selling KO MPM Ratchet in China MSRP 350 (about 54 USD).
    And his friend's BMB LS06 Megatron cost was higher than this KO MPM Ratchet, but at that time BMB only sold it at 200+ RMB. (So basically BMB is selling 100 more for a much smaller toys now)
    upload_2021-2-28_13-11-34.png


    From that post, you can also see other of interesting information related to 3rd party operations.
    1) 3rd parties send the contracts to these small factories, these factories might not even making toys before. (probably except XTB who owns factory, all 3rd parties need to do this). For example, his friend's factory mostly making lamps, computer mouses, etc. This might explains why XTB Locke and FH Armada Optimus Primes QC issue recently.
    upload_2021-2-28_13-36-3.png

    2) They don't really need to afraid of Hasbro, because factories are so well hidden. His friend's factory is in the back alley of a very busy town, from outside you can't notice this factory, and even u peek from the door, only see a group of old women using machines, u would think they are sewing clothes. No, actually they are assembling toys. Nobody will notice small factory like this, only the big fish like Weijiang will be under the radar.
    upload_2021-2-28_13-27-53.png

    3) The labour costs increased a lot, before one toy assemble cost was RBM 11, now increased to RMB 20. (God... who would take $1.5 which is just a cup of coffee to assemble a MPM Rachet in NA? I might do it for hobby once, but multiply that by hundreds, thousands of times. )

    upload_2021-2-28_13-31-52.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  3. Fortynickel

    Fortynickel Interim Head Warehouse Spelunker

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    That’s a good point that I have also thought a bit about. The Seekers themselves represented a totally different set of problems. Maketoys was going to compete directly against a Takara known product, though an outdated mold, that most collectors had already bought. They must have believed that the shift towards toon-accuracy was strong enough to get people to abandon their fleet of official MP-11s and buy into a 3rd party version, something that never happened before.

    The high quality production of the Yes Model Seekers showed that an experienced party was definitely involved. I figured that Maketoys and KBB managed to get the molds to MP-11, which have been produced in various factories since 2012, make some minor improvements to bring in quick cash from collectors who refused to abandon their official ones and ones that needed to fill the gaps of their official set. They couldn’t get the molds for the Coneheads and had to make their own modifications, which again showed professional involvement.

    I thought it was a strategy to dominate the Seeker market by coming in two directions. But then it all went wrong because either the Seekers are not as profitable as they originally perceived or that the KOs cannibalized their original Seekers and the funds dried up. They couldn’t then manufacture their own figures, which they have prototypes, and the new MP-11 KOs characters that had samples shown years ago.

    Coincidentally, Maketoys and Yes Model are suffering from the same Seeker drought despite the continual calls for reissues. YM, however, does have enough resources to exactly KO the Maketoys Cupola, Iron Will and oversize Maketoys Guardia. This means that Yes Model either has the Maketoys molds or their CAD files for these figures, or both.

    If Maketoys made logical decisions, I would agree with your assessment. But their pattern of behavior, I would say that FP/Maketoys do not do their homework’ make decisions more as fans than entrepreneurs and hurt themselves despite making great products. This is the only part of all my posts on this thread that I can express with any certainty.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  4. Fortynickel

    Fortynickel Interim Head Warehouse Spelunker

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    This line of thought also has a lot of merit in possibly explaining how KOing of Maketoys goods happened. It’s peculiar that they are the only 3rd party company that has this happen consistently and more weird that KOs end up as good as the originals.

    Once again, this is all done purely as a thought exercise and for fun. I was just trying to connect the dots since we were all discussing the shadowy world of 3rd party. I have no clue how any of this stuff goes down. I defer to people like @RVDA who have involvement in that end.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  5. Spiderbite

    Spiderbite Well-Known Member

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    Most of these "companies"(I really think its better off to think of them as sort of small groups of people that come together to produce a figure in between their other jobs) having non copy right skirting work is no surprise to me; the guys who make this had to develop their knowledge in their various fields(be it CAD, production, etc.) somehow.
     
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  6. Spark

    Spark General Electric

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    I suspect "Awaken Studio" is probably the equivalent of a private LLC for a contractor. In other words, Action Toys, despite being the same guy, may subcontract on paper to Awaken Studios for financial reasons.

    Imaginarium Art also has a MakeToys connection in there, at least in so far as to whom they subcontract, since their Devastator is very obviously built off MakeToys Giant CAD and their Rodimus Prime statue began as DX9 Carry until someone apparently called it out, so it got largely resculpted. I'd hazard a guess that they don't belong to any of the Action Toys/MakeToys parties, but use the same network of designers.

    Cassy Sark's style is easily identifiable by lots of parallel vents and hexagonal or octagonal tube legs. Sometimes ramp faces, but I think that's thankfully gone. I always figured MMC's Tyrantron started as a Sark design that was reworked or just unfinished, since the lower body looks an awful lot like his style and it retains a few of Sark's quirks.

    I suspect YesModel is actually a factory organization instead of a wing of another 3P company. They would have access to the CAD (or toolings), so they see easy money recycling things from a company or two that are already trying to keep a low profile, and also have access to the distribution lines.

    I think someone ages back pointed out that the initial YesModel Seekers have the same sprue marks as the official ones? That implies they're literally using the same molds, which sort of backs up my theory that it's a company centered around one particular factory with really good access that reruns stuff after the real versions are done and gone from their doors.

    If you have the finished CAD, you (generally) don't have to reverse engineer anything. You just press new toolings based on the CAD. It's massively cheaper than going and reverse engineering something.
     
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  7. Super Mecha Dad

    Super Mecha Dad Your mechanical father.

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    There seems to be a lot of Maketoys stuff (Cupola*, Thunder Manus/Erebus, Iron Will*, Buster Skywing) popping up at better than decent prices lately at multiple outlets. The optimist in me thinks "hey, they're rerunning some of their greatest hits to build up some cash" while the pessimist just thinks they're shipping out whatever dead stock they had on hand.

    *Doubly interesting that once supply of the YM KOs ran low suddenly a bunch of retailers have stock of the MakeToys versions at very decent prices.
     
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  8. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    This is the most interesting thread I have read in a long time, I had no idea Third Party companies had connections to legit official ones. Now it all makes sense, why a lot of Hong Kong and Japanese companies work together to make these things for fun.
     
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  9. Super Mecha Dad

    Super Mecha Dad Your mechanical father.

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    Yeah, in my head there's like 20 people who actually run these companies and design the toys and they all meet up once a month for Dim Sum somewhere in Hong Kong.
     
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  10. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    This is like the Breaking Bad of the Action Figure industry except nobody gets killed which I think is great. Lol
     
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  11. OptionZero

    OptionZero Well-Known Member

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    Thats more or less the truth
     
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  12. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    What about Sen-ti-nel and Flame Toys? Is there some interesting third party history behind those companies and other strange partners they have?
     
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  13. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    Wait so Lu K designed Giant and Howling Meteor?
     
  14. dwong1207

    dwong1207 Well-Known Member

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    They just get raided and shut down when they mess with an official company ;) 
     
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  15. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    “I will shut down your factory, I will liquidate your assets, I will destroy all of your metal molds.”

    screams like Walter in the crawl space
     
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  16. dwong1207

    dwong1207 Well-Known Member

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    Its crazy to think back about this 11 or so year ride with 3p. Such an amazing journey, just sad to see good companies messed up by one bad apple.
     
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  17. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    Can you tell me who are the designers for most of these toys?
     
  18. GrimLocke

    GrimLocke Cultus Volcanicus

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    Well, that certainly explains why I saw a new run of the DX9 WIP Dinobots announced for Om ShowZ Store, earlier today.

    Awaken
    makeu

    :lolol 

    Are they gunna do a G1 repaint? G2? Trypticon/SG? :eek: 
     
  19. dwong1207

    dwong1207 Well-Known Member

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    Don't know the designers
     
  20. Slashformingdoofus

    Slashformingdoofus Well-Known Member

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    Thanks very helpful