I am bored and started my Star Wars movie binge preparing for episode IX and just recently did I and II and because I have no one to talk to in person about Star Wars at the moment (insert sad music) I will turn to you guys for now. I want to see peoples opinions on what is better with the first two installments of the PT or ST since we do not have ROS I am of course not going to ask what is better the PT or ST until after ROS comes out so to kill time until then lets talk about the first two installments of each trilogy here. Also I like polls and want to create a poll...

For me it is an easy vote for The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones because despite their flaws I still enjoy watching them and appreciate what they do. They expand the lore and history of the Star Wars galaxy and give us a look into the galaxy only on the brink of chaos. Also it gave us Ewan Mcgregor's Obi-Won Kenobi who iconic in the role and is a highlight in them. John Williams amazing Dual of the Fates has to be mentioned of course and more.

I have seen The Force Awakens four times (three times in theaters and once on blu-ray right before TLD came out) and although I was underwhelmed at first i appreciated it more on the viewings after on what it was trying to do but then The Last Jedi came out and like many people it left a bad taste in my mouth that hurt my feelings towards The Force Awakens which is not fair to the movie itself but the things I did not get to see in Force Awakens I thought maybe I will get to see Last Jedi and well that did not happen either so by not getting that I know now in Force Awakens I will be let down after. Do not get me wrong Force Awakens is still an entertaining movie but it just feel like its missing so much because of the follow up.

Alright lets get this party started and to be fair to the ST let's not mention RotS as much as we can for this.

 

I like Phantom Menace more than Force Awakens.

But Attack of the Clones and Last Jedi... that's a tough one. They're both...not great. Attack of the Clones is easily the worst one George made. But at least it was his story. On the other hand, as completely underdeveloped as the sequel trilogy characters are, they're still stronger than the prequel trilogy characters. Rey and Kylo are infinitely more interesting than Anakin and Padme, imo. It's hard to choose. It's like choosing which I would rather have, a headache or a stomachache. Headache, maybe...? I guess I'll go with AotC.

 

IV and V.

 

STAR WARS - General Topic Discussion

This thread already exists.

For what it's worth, and using simple mathematics, TPM is sort of the same level as TFA. TLJ shits all over AOTC, which is easily the worst of the 10 released films so far.

So VII and VIII > I and II.

 

Well that too easy of a question adding that in.

I know but I wanted the poll to see results and to keep it on this topic.

 

I know, sorry. Your poll poses a tough question — I see a LOT of parallels between I & II vs. VII & VIII, and like STK says, it’s like comparing a stomachache to a headache. They both suck.

I’ll think about it a bit, but the Prequels definitely disappointed me more.

 

When it comes to Attack of the Clones and Last Jedi I still find Anakin character more interesting then Rey. Not that Anakin character is great in the movie I still find him interesting and I know why I should be following his story. Rey started interesting in TFA but after TLJ she just lost me and became an empty character for me. Klyo actually interesting and is probably the best developed ST character which is good that the bad guy is developed but the protagonists fall flat for me.

 

As far as technically "better" goes, I'd probably have to say the sequel movies, if I'm being completely honest. As much as the prequels have become more beloved recently, the truth is that they do have an insane amount of problems. Storytelling problems, characterization problems, special effect problems. Bland cinematography, stiff dialog, inconsistencies with the OT, juvenile humor. The list just goes on and on. There's a reason those Plinkett reviews are so long. Stuff like the excessive greenscreen and excessive shot-reverse-shot just feel lazy for movies that are part of one of the biggest franchises ever. I am happy that the prequels have become more accepted in recent years, but I also think it's important to remember that they are very flawed films, and not give them a free pass just because we're nostalgic for them.

The sequels, in my opinion, are technically okay. I don't think they're masterpieces. If you removed the Star Wars brand from TFA, it would likely just have been another fine sci-fi movie. Most of the excitement came from nostalgia (and how reactionary it was to the prequels). But it was competent, had a decent storyline, and had good cinematography and effects. While I view The Last Jedi as worse than TFA (and much clunkier), it still has competent elements. The cinematography is good, the effects are mostly solid, and the storyline (while iffy for a lot of people) is still probably technically better than something like Attack of the Clones (which has far more filler). Mark Hamill's acting is easily better than anything in the prequels, no matter what you think of his character.

On a personal level, I prefer the prequels though. I grew up with them, have nostalgia for them, and would rather revisit them. I feel like TPM has more charm than TFA does. The more I watch TFA, it almost feels like autopilot. Especially the last third. Now, autopilot might technically fly the plane better, but a real pilot will be more memorable in the long run. Nu Star Wars has a feeling of "fakeness" to me (partially because they're such corporate movies). The prequels feel more genuine, coming from a smaller creative team and a filmmaker's vision. If I were growing up with Disney's Star Wars, I'd probably prefer them. I don't think either trilogy can hold a candle to the OT.

 

I’m in a minority but I will take Force Awakens and Last Jedi over Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones any day of the week.

 

For me it comes down to how curious the decisions in these two movies make me. Episode I and II makes me go "I wonder what went through George's head when making these and thinking why he made those choices because I find his decisions interesting" When thinking about VII and VIII I go "I wonder what was everyone thinking when making these decisions and who thought these were good ideas?"

It comes down to me just thinking George' idea were interesting to go with while I think the Disney team makes me go why did you think that would work.

 

I would say I prefer the ambition and fun factor of I and II (and the prequels in general) over the Sequel Trilogy.

I didn't hate The Last Jedi; I thought it was meh. The problem with TLJ is that you had all of these critics gushing over it, making it out to be something better and more daring than it really was. Then you had all of these fans who had opposite and equally hyperbolic reactions.

In my opinion, the story of Luke not wanting anything to do with Jedi anything is actually very interesting. It's just that the universe it takes place in is just the same damn universe as the OT, to the point that many scenarios in TLJ are almost exactly the same as in ESB. Many people rightfully want characters to develop over time, but what about fictional universe development? Star Wars takes place in A Galaxy Far, Far Away, and as flawed as the prequels are, they gave more thought to that galaxy than the sequel trilogy has. So that's why, as a fan of that fictional galaxy, why I prefer the prequels.

 

Anakin is maybe the second worst-written character in the entire movie series after only Jar-Jar. You could have given that role to the greatest young actor who ever lived, and it would have tanked his career just as badly as Hayden's, because no one in the world could do anything with that dialogue combined with Lucas' direction of actors in the PT.

Whenever I think of anything good that teen Anakin ever said or did, I always realize, "Oh yeah, that was from the cartoon, not the movies."

Agreed. Most interesting part of the sequels, imo.

 

There’s definitely good ideas in the prequels, but the execution? Yikes.

I mean, I want to say that Anakin Skywalker is more interesting than Kylo Ren, because who the fuck is Kylo Ren compared to the man who would become Darth Vader? But Hayden vs. Adam? It’s not even close to being fair. Thank god for the Clone Wars series Anakin.

 

I would say you are not wrong for most of what you say. I think it is like what you say the new movies feel very corporate while I and II feel like more personally made movies from Lucas.

When it comes to filler though I feel TLJ is just as guilty if not more than AOTC. While AOTC can drag a bit in the middle and you could probably cut a scene of Anakin and Padme here or there I don't feel like they are filler nor is Obi-Won plot. The Anakin and Padme plot is to develop their relationship for a better sense of the word to get them together while the Obi-Won plot is to discover the clones and eventually lead to the Battle of Geonosis and start the Clone Wars so the movie two plots serve a point. Then in the TLJ the canto bight subplot serves next to nothing but to give Finn something random to do, the Poe subplot is there to make him less cocky of course but it is done in such a way where it did not need to happen. The only plot that feels important is the Rey, Luke, and Klyo one which is not bad but gets derailed by the other two subplots.

Yea I still find Anakin character more interesting then Klyo but Adam does carry the character very well and really makes the character.

Also what I see in I and II are at least interesting ideas just not the best execution but what is better interesting ideas with not the best execution or bland ideas with okay execution.

 

I don't need scenes between those two cut. If anything, there should have been more of them to develop the supposed love story, so that we could get some sense they actually liked each other and why. The scenes we did have just needed to be completely rewritten and reshot. Even the blocking and framing in those scenes is awful. You would think George was a first time director (maybe even a first year film student) the way he shot those scenes. It's completely baffling with the movies he already had under his belt.

 

I and II for me. Duel of the Fates and Death Sticks!


What's kind of interesting is that Phantom Menace and Force Awakens are both remakes of a New Hope to a degree, though the Prequel is somewhat subtle about it but at the same time uses it as a foil towards Luke's story, while the Sequel is rather blatant about it being a rehash yet doesn't really seem to have a greater narrative purpose with it.

 

Or that too. I feel like there enough scenes of them together it should work but the dialogue would just need some tweaks. Most of my problems with the PT would just need some little tweaks here and there to fix it up. Like a second coat of paint over a car to make it look good but it sill works. My problems with the ST is like if someone took a baseball bat made two-three big dents somewhere and now I am standing there thinking whats the best way to fix it.

This.

Also, "good job"

 

Big disagree.

The point of the Canto Bite side concern was that it was a poorly though out terrible idea, that ended up getting a lot of people killed. Poe's arc in the film is learning that he can't lead the fleet as if he's a hot shot X Wing pilot. He needs to consider the bigger picture.

He fails as a leader twice by not focusing on the bigger picture,and as a result people die in futility and someone has to sacrifice themselves to cover his mistake.

During the Dreadnought attack most of the fighter corps die and Paige sacrifices herself to cover for Poe's mistake.

The Canto Bite/hacker plan results in DJ betraying the Resistance, and the First Order picking off most of their shuttles, and Holdo sacrifices herself to cover for the mistake.

By the time the Resistance reach Crait he's learned from his mistakes and calls off the attack on the ram so that the Resistance can focus on escaping. That's why I didn't mind that Finn didn't sacrifice himself and the cheesy dialogue with Rose after she stops him. That was the payoff to Poe's arc - lead properly, don't rush to conflict, and people might not have to sacrifice themselves to cover for your mistakes.

Whether Finn should have been given more of a spotlight of his own, as opposed to becoming a part of Poe's arc, is a separate (and potentially more interesting) question. TLJ is a film about the growth three main characters - Rey, Kylo, and Poe. All of the other character's have their bits interwoven with that and in the case of Finn it means that he's essentially swapped places in terms of importance with Poe from the first film - he's gone from main to supporting character. I personally didn't have an issue with it but I can see why others might.

 

Man, I hope George Lucas sends Matt Lanter and Ashley Eckstein Christmas cards and fruit baskets every year for them both basically salvaging Anakin Skywalker.

 

This was the biggest misstep of TFA. Maybe they were scared of getting too political because of the prequels?

The canon backstory to TFA is much more interesting than the actual film - Leia being castigated by the New Republic as a dinosaur trying to cling to some public relevance by scaremongering about the First Order.

It could have been an interesting political thriller angle.