What would you change about any show?

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Heavy Unit, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    The ideas have always been physical. (Reality is unlike classic neo Platonism or neo Aristotle Christian philosophy...where they are metaphysical and beyond physics.)

    The only thing that changed was when the ideas left the privacy of one's own brain, and got marketed or advertised to the public. Once that happened, the ideas belong to others who got it ...(whether by money, trade, or free).

    Yes people make products out of ideas. (Example: music, books, artworks).
    If one lived privately, as a hermit, kept silent, and to themselves, if economy shut down, if there where walls, chains, muzzles, censorships, drugs, anything to contain people, ideas could never be products. They would just be private prayers or dreams. But people talk, they write, they create, they record, take pictures .....sometimes for free....sometimes they charge others money to do it. By doing this; ideas spread to others and get owned by others.

    The Bible used to be a book owned only by the universal church government at one point. But then came printing press; new secular governments along with new laws about free speech and other rights and freedoms. Now, everyone owns the Bible. It's no longer exclusive. Everyone now owns god and all the ideas about god.

    These "rights" are actually about authority that permits one to do things. But once it goes on air in public media, or once someone buys it....that's it. The consumer now owns it. No stopping people from copying, re-creating, discussing it, making their own improved versions, ko versions, making a sequal....

    Nope. I own all the animation g1 episodes. I own all the comics. So do millions of others. People can do whatever they wish. (The illegal part is claiming to be someone else or taking credit for other people's works).
     
  2. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Ideas are of the mind, they don’t become reality without hard work……and the end result doesn’t always resemble the idea exactly

    No

    the tangible object that was born from the idea is what belongs to the others, no matter how they came to own it
    Yes, a product can spread ideas to others, like a song or a poem can spread ideas to others , give then new ideas of their own

    but tge only ideas they own are their own

    they did buy the idea of the song or poem writer…..they only bought the product that was inspired by the idea
    they own the Bible, but everyone has different interpretations of what they read in the Bible, different interpretations of what is god
    But it would prevent them from putting out their “product” to the masses with the same kind of results that the official product has
    you own copies of others peoples work

    your ability to do “what ever you want” is depended on their ability to retain the rights to their finished product

    Think about it, if they didn’t have the ability to retain those rights, it’s likely they would gave only created 1 short story and not 4 seasons of a cartoon
     
  3. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    but like I said several times, Wouldn’t you want this hypothetical new G1-Plus series to seem like it Actually fits into the original G1 cartoon in both style and tone with as little hiccups as possible And without creating new continuity issues?

    Tracks first appeared early in season 2, episode 8 to be exact, Desertion of tge Dinobots is episode 20…….Making the kind of changes you’re suggesting was completely alter the narrative of the series

    There’s also the overall tone of the original G1 cartoon, Sure it’s going to be hard to recapture but we shouldn’t be expecting for them to deliberately go off the trail in a different direction

    having Multiple different episodes to introduce new arrivals would have been far too repetitive And in my opinion probably boring.If they wouldn’t have done it like that in tge 80s we should be looking for the writers to do so now

    It would end up making this new possible show feel out of place with the original, and I think most people will start reviewing the way some have viewed the first IDW comic continuity…..Meaning they wouldn’t think it’s G1

    I’m going to try to use Star Trek as an analogy but I hope you’ll understand, you can’t take the same level and Sophistication of Deep Space 9 writing and have it injected into new episodes of The Original Series without changing the tone of the show
    shuttle?

    From what I remember it look like they were reviewing the ark…….seems to imply try were planning on launching with the Ark not a shuttle
    If you ask me

    NO RETCONS WHAT SO EVER

    Retcons Only run the risk alienating parts of the fandom that don’t like or agree with the changes

    For example the one you’re postulating right now would change the significance of Shockwaves “faith” in trying to contact Megatron after so long
    I don’t see them getting the job accomplished, Megatrons spy network Was just too good, and they would’ve sabotaged any such construction project by the autobots
    Have you forgotten that Bombshell,Kickback and Sharpnel can clone themselves?

    So the Scenes like ….
    The boarding Astrotrain at Autobot City
    The Scavenger and Insecticon with Daniel
    And Starscream's coronation

    Already all make sense…… so why waste the effort on fixing something that’s not broken?

    Have you ever heard the term at work smarter not harder?

    So why not swap out the apparence of Devestator in 5 faces or darkness for some unknown generic robot of large size

    part of tge love for the series is seeming The recognizable characters that we’ve come to know and love

    besides, I still don’t see the point in trying to rewrite or replace scenes that don’t create any controversy on their own

    Fixing mistakes is one thing, wasting Effort on changing things For no other reason then just to change things It’s not something I would ever want them to do
    These are the type of things I would want them to address
     
  4. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    For me, I would like, say 20 episodes that have some sort of links to the past, remade with adjustments to dialog and animation where necessary, with about 10 new episodes to be made. To me, the first episode does not really link in with space concepts of season 3 (and even late season 3). In short, I would change some of the dialog when Optimus is on Cybertron in the pilot, to establish that there are some colonies in space that are barely fueling the Autobots on Cybertron.

    I am sure could all come up with different filler episode for new arrivals and some departures, for me, I would have say Skids arriving with Cosmos later in the series, and Omega coming as per the Secret to Omega Supreme episode, so dialog in the Heavy Metal War episode would be adjusted. This just my ideal transformers world, I understand that people have different explanations for these contradictions. To me, I could have a 20 minute episode focusing on the Ark leaving Cybertron, and crash landing on earth as a partial way of explaining the late introduction of season 2 characters and show Ravage's cybertronic non-tape mode.

    To me, having dialog in the first episode about colonies establishing fuel supplies, albeit with insufficient quanties of energy should go most of the way of establishing a path into the series characters who appear later in the series. But to me giant robots like SkyLynx and Broadside should have a more detailed explanation in terms of a back story.

    To me, I think 3 or 4 stories based on the sunbow cartoon on the 4M years that Optimus and Megatron could be really interesting, I would take a lot of inspiration from the comics. But the scene in question, would make it seems like Shockwave's dialog over 4M years would be Acid Storm, keep the Autobots at bay, Nacelle, get some energy, whist I continually call Megatron. In my mind, Shockwave, could have sent search parties to look for Megatron, but after a few thousand years he has given up. But suddenly in 1984, there is some catalyst for him to try and contact Megatron again.

    At that point in time, in my mind, the Decepticons are too busy repairing themselves to worry about, let alone stop the Autobots.

    In the show, Megatron at least could seemingly know who were the real Insecticons and who the clones were. To me, when Astrotrain is about to leave Autobot City, the Decepticons would not knowing let a clone board Astrotrain, to me some clone Insecticons could have just got on flown on Astrotrain wing or roof but not in the main passenger section. Just, in the wanna bet scene, I think there are only 3 Insecticons onboard Astrotrain, but that scene is awesome and I would not mind if there a couple of clone Insecticons on board, and we could also see Starscream really become leader then.

    I would be happy enough to just leave out the Deluxe Insections or just give them a short life span. On Devastator, I would remake Rebirth with 5 episodes and give Devastator and Omega Supreme one last battle.
     
  5. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    This topic is huge in Plato. And many other surviving philosophical literature. I prefer the lesser known epicurean view.
    In terms of definition: mind is basically thoughts. Plato called these things "ideas" or "forms". They are as if angels or gods in themselves but are not souls, but rather made from souls. Unlike souls though, platos ideas often exist outside bodies.
    The roman epicurean philosopher lucretius, described mind as substance made out of atoms, that is found in breath, and can exit and enter bodies through breath and air. The epicurean version of the forms were called "films", and they are described as being made out of light particles. Unlike platos, forms, they are lifeless reflections. (In Plato the forms are products of life [souls]).

    I am not sure as to what you mean by your statement: ideas become reality by hard work.

    It sounds to me that you believe kind of what the gospel of John says. "...in the beginning was the word...and the word became flesh..."

    Do you think ideas become solid objects? (Example: a man thinks of a stunticon toy, and this idea results in the appearance of a stunticon toy?)

    Do you actually believe that people own ideas? I think it's impossible. One would have to own people's souls to own ideas. (This was beast Machines megatrons approach in solving "the problem" of individual thinking.)

    Let us examine this logic closely. So if a person buys a poem or a song, they bought a product that was inspired by an idea... you say.

    Let's say a person has some poetry in their head. The public does not yet knows what this poetry is. But the person now writes down and sings the poetry. The words go to books and to cassettes. In my view, what logically happened here, was that the poet merely copied his idea into paper or a cassette. I would conclude that the poet is not only sharing his/her ideas to the world, but also giving the world their ideas. (Without the paper or the cassette, no consumer could know the poetry)

    Who do you say owns the Bible?
    I for one say that I own it. And so do billions of people. (They are not just interpreting the book full of ideas...they own them...its tattooed right into their souls).

    I do not believe that an official product exists. What exists are individual persons or companies. So there are hasbro products made by hasbro. Any other company or person can also make their own products. The offense is if they claim to be hasbro when they are not. Or if they take credit for works done by hasbro. This has nothing to do with ideas. Anyone can actually make transformer products. (Unless a government passes laws and judgements that prevent anyone from doing something for some given reason of course).

    The results to me are another issue. (Eg. It successfully sells or not; it is liked or hated...etc). Conservative Patriots likely will likely always favor the first, and despise others, (even if they are superior products).

    You are right. Government authorities can stop any one attempting to do whatever they want. Those "rights" are in fact determined by authorities.
    To my knowledge once a consumer buys any product (including ideas or rights), they own it, and do as they desire with their property.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    If it were up to me

    No remade episodes….No new dialog added to old episodes

    Make new episodes that are connected to older ones or take place in the past

    Mistakes can be corrected and new details can be added by way of flash backs
    Lazorbeak had a tape mode on Cybertron ….seems logical that Ravage would too

    as to the rest, Like I said I feel too many Different arrival episodes would end up being redundant and would go against the overall tone of the original cartoon
    Some of that would fit with what was established at least
    not likely

    again, it would go against tge tone of tge entire series……
    Please forgive me for sounding rude but, what’s your point

    Even if Megatron could tell the difference between real and clone he wasn’t in a postion to say anything.He was near death, carried into Astrotrain….And I feel certain he was one of the last brought a board

    No way was he in a condition or had the time to inspect all the other passengers

    Likewise I doubt any of the Decepticons had the tine or frame of mind at tge tine to be checking IDs
    I would leave rebirth alone

    If you want to give those two guys one less battle make it happen when Galvatron snd Scorpanox return

    I’m starting to feel we’re going way off topic
    It’s just a simple explanation

    if one wants to bring an idea to fruition one must put in the work
    Like I said earlier I’m not going to get into a conversation using a lot of religious analogies

    but as an analog….Yes “words can become flesh”….But not by the snap of a finger

    Again as an analogy….One way to make “words into flesh” is to have ink and paper then write those words
    Yes, ideas can become solid objects, yes a person thinks about a the idea of a toy and it can be made a solid object…..but not by “the sudden appearance” of the toy but by tge creative talents of tgat person or other people

    by sculpting and Engineering skills
    People own their own ideas as long as they keep them to themselves
    Even in cases like that the idea that inspired the poetry or song is not necessarily shared within the product

    How many songs have you heard about list loves…There are so many songs about breaking up and losing love that it’s impossible to count

    but do your know the stories behind those songs, do you know the ideas that inspired them?

    was it a life Life experience of the writer her/himself, Was it about something they saw in a movie, read in a book, learned from a friend……..Or was it just a completely imagined event they thought would make for a good song

    Just because you bought the recording doesn’t mean you bought the idea behind the recording
    From a legal standpoint I believe anyone can print the Bible if they choose
    And those laws/regulations already exist in the form of trademark and copyright issues

    it’s the reason why Marvel Comics don’t make Superman products

    It’s also the reason why third party companies with use a different name when creating products that resemble Copyrighted or trademarked products (Which goes back to the question you asked on a different topic I believe)

    But when you buy the product (let’s say a movie) you don’t really buys tge “rights” to it……Nor can you really do whatever you want with it

    Sure you could burn it if you like, but if it was your desire to make millions of copies and disseminate it to the masses you could be Prosecuted for it

    If you wanted To Air it on public access TV You could be prosecuted or fined If you don’t seek and get special permission from the license holder
    Third-party toy companies run this risk all the time, sure they find loopholes and sometimes get away with what they’re doing but there’s no guarantee

    The fan film community runs this risk all the time as well……I can think of at least one Star Trek fan film series that was shut down by Paramont/CBS

    The ability to “do whatever you want” is Actually limited
     
  7. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Okay. I see your view.

    I for one do not think that ideas can ever become solid objects. Ideas are of mind. Mind is like an illusion seen in mirrors or in images of art.
    People can use solid substances (example: wood, plastic, metal, paint, paper, computers), to recreate their ideas.....but at this point, their ideas become known to public, and no longer belong to them.
    I would argue that this is not even true. What if a higher power and ability exists, that enables some to probe people's brains and see contents of minds? If such a thing exists, then their are no secrets. And if there are no secrets, there is no exclusive ownership of any ideas.

    I do not. But...there are some people who do.

    For me, human beings are NOT ideas or "spirits".
    Ideas are not persons. We do not need to know a person in order to know an idea created by a person.

    When the church was in government power, they used to kill and torture people over this.
    Today, no one can seem to stop free speech; copying ideas; or even in trying to keep ideas a secret. The church government tried to monopolize ideas, but they failed.

    True.

    Only if you sell it and claim to be the company or author with the rights. One can make millions of copies for themselves and close freinds, or even just give them away for free if they desired...(Without getting prosecuted I believe....of course ...what kind of madman would do that?)

    Not today! Today private people and companies form their own shows on wifi. They are free to do a lot of things despite being dogged by moral and legal censorship police. So long as they do not misrepresent or slander others; make profit of other people's works; claim to be others; it is legal).

    Right. It is a game of cat and dog between private individual fans and moral police dogs of private companies.
    Fans must not claim to be paramount. To make profit of paramount products; to slander and defame paramount with misrepresentations...
    ...details are found in the secular laws of the state...
     
  8. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I can see your point to a degree but at the same time I’m sure your woukd agree that very often (if not always) the solid object that has been created from the idea Doesn’t exactly resemble the idea to the individual that created it

    More often than not it is just simply as close an approximation to the original idea that the creator was able to make

    again this is why the public does not buy tge idea itself, only the product that was inspired by tge idea
    I don’t mean to disrespect you but you can’t really make that argument unless you can prove the higher power exists

    In the end you would just be talking in circles, you would first have to prove The existence of that higher power and then prove the abilities of that higher power
    Then you would also have to find how the existence of that higher power fits into the context of this particular conversation

    Since even if that higher power exist, as many believe that gods does, Said higher power wouldn’t be relevant to the topic since we are talking about other people and not higher powers

    So even If such a thing exists, If existence would be irrelevant since we are talking about keeping secrets and privacy between other people and not higher powers
    Right and usually because the artist in question has made their inspiration public

    But not every artist does
    That’s just it, unless you were told by the person what was behind tge idea you can never truly know the idea itself

    You can only know “Your interpretation” of the idea
    They failed?

    I’m not getting into that conversation
    Actually even making copies for your self or giving it away runs the risk of Being prosecuted

    because it Interferes with both copyright and distribution rights…..Not to mention interfering with the property owners ability to be compensated or gain profit from the product being copied

    It’s the reason why movie makers have been implementing anti-copying capabilities And technologies into the manufacturing of video tapes CDs and DVDs since the early 80s
    Yes today
    Private people and companies running their own creative materials is one thing, Even using copyrighted material for the purposes of reviews and conversations are allowed

    But running The full context of copyrighted work is not allowed

    It’s the reason why a lot of channels and users on places like YouTube have been shut down, For hosting full movies, full episodes of TV shows or full albums of other peoples music

    Even when they were hosting it for free, Granted policing some of these people was difficult but there were some artist that took the time to do it….

    Like Prince for example, For years before his death it was quite difficult to find much of his music on YouTube because he personally implement it and hired people to search the Internet for anyone hosting his music and having those people shut down
    Well with the particular Star Trek fan project that I was talking about….

    The fans in question never claimed to be Paramont

    They never defamed Paramont, As a matter of fact in the opening and ending credits to the product they actually made a note to thank Paramont and all other Star Trek creators by giving them the credit they deserve

    And as far as I know they made absolutely no profit and even found it the project out of their own money and donations

    Paramont/CVB still shut them down through legal channel
     
  9. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested to know what subject matter for episodes you would add.

    For me, as mentioned earlier, I would do a series called Rebirth of the Decepticons - this would start with Decepticons as pretty much a bunch of down and outers during the golden age, but then they learn how to build themselves and / or acquire new transformers including Megatron. Would love to see tension between the Renegade Decepticons and Megatron and in general the Decepticons starting to dominate the new war, but with many Decepticon casualities, like the need to build the Robosmasher.

    I would do 2 separate episodes that occur more than 4M years ago, one would be set on a foreign planet, where the Decepticons ultimately win that battle, this could be a battle that Optimus Prime alludes to when he says something along the lines of if the Decepticons win on Earth, they will cause a huge amount of destruction on Earth.

    The other episode set over 4M years ago, would be use the A Bridge too Far as a sort of template, the Decepticons want to finish the war really quickly and they try and take an Autobot City that is fairly close to Iacon, in short an ambitious plan fails, many of Megatron's best seekers would die and apart from Starscream he is pretty much just left with the seekers who were in the show.

    I would like to do at least one episode set during Shockwave's reign on Cyberton

    In around early1985, I would have an episode called Devastator's redemption, basically after the City of Steel episode. Most of the Earth based Decepticons head back to Cybertron to essentially finish off the Autobot resistance on Cybertron (basically Wrecker characters who were never in the original show)

    I would do a Search for Alpha Trion part 2, be interesting to know what happened to the Fembots.

    A 3 parter based on a season 2.5 exploring the Decepticons expanding their empire in space, take parts of Scramble City regarding the builing of Autobot City, the Decepticons returning to Cybertron (the fate of the Decepticon undersea base), the Autobots building their secret moon bases.

    After the movie, I would have the Autobot launching the ship that carries the deceased Autobots from the movie, the massive decline of the Decepticon influence in space, and Decepticon leadership battles.

    A season 3.5, to help introduce new characters, a feature on Punch/Counterpunch, how did he cope being a double agent for seemingly a long period of time. Maybe Devastator could face of with Omega here but Devastator wins with a fair bit of luck.

    An episode that is set after Rebirth, towards Beast Wars.

    My apologies, I was meaning to refer to Ravage's beast mode on Cybertron

    We really do not know how long there was after the Decepticons crash land in the sea and the time that the Autobot ship was ready to launch, I will need to watch it again. But say there was some amount of time maybe the Autobots got intelligence on Cybertron before trying to launch a ship containing all the Autobots who featured in that episode. Anyway, we can agree to disagree on the validity and degree of Optimus Prime's knowledge of the state of Cybertron before the Transport to Oblivion episode.

    Happy enough for say 6 insecticons (1 clone for each insecticon) to board Astrotrain in the chaos.
     
  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I would try to do a series that covers different time periods.

    With some stories focused on the time they were all slaves, some episodes covering the revolt, Some episodes covering the golden age and as well as some episodes covering the early and late days of the Civil War

    I would also love episodes with stories taking place between already known episoses (so that we can find out what happened to guys like the female Autobots or that bounty hunter) other episodes set between season 2 and the movie (So we could see the introduction of guys like hot rod cup and Springer And how the moon bases were create it) And maybe even a few stories set after “the birth”

    And a few episodes leading up to the actual end of the war and the start of the big downsizing

    That would have to be sit closer to late 1985
    No problem
    The way spike was entering the information into his journal it would seem that wasn’t a great long period of time between those events
    I Wouldn’t expect any kind of inspection with everything going on
     
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  11. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Be cool to see earlier Autobot and Decepticon leaders as well as the development of the Transformers.

    Devcon would be cool to see him again, and a follow-up story about the female Autobots would be nice.

    Well at the start of Transport to Oblivion, Ironhide says that months have passed.
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Both would be great
    You said the time between the crash of Decepticons into the sea and the time that they tried to launch the Ark
     
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  13. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And to complicate matters further, final products are actually often the result of many ideas from many people. Not to mention the fact that people also burrow ideas from others.

    Why in hells name are you even bringing me up? Stick to topics god damn it.

    I could never prove that. Just like you could never prove that Jesus exists.

    Do you believe in the existence of things and people who are more powerful than you or me?

    What if someone placed a hidden camera or an electronic bug, and got secret information from another?

    Does this not prove that it is possible to extract ideas from others?

    Ever hear about how good psychologists, torturers, and spies, have abilities also to extract ideas or any other secrets from others?

    True. But looks like the fools could not stop people from making copies underground anyway. Today so much stuff can be seen for free through internet/wifi. Those goats of the 80s would have a heart attack if they knew the stuff we can do today.

    Yes. There is lots of history of censorship. It continues today. Some people are parasites. Others scammers. Some want to silence others. Some want to prosecute others. Some want to control others. Some want to take away freedoms. The police dogs of censorship, and the wolves who are moral authorities, are determined to do what they do.

    Interesting...



    Lots of artist celebrities like prince are christians; into drugs; loaded with all kinds of plagues that hit their health and create great tragedies in their life. Today, anyone can listen to his music for free. His spirit survives as biographies and all kinds of literature, and information found in media. (It's free too. Censorship dogs and moral authorities hate that)

    Okay.

    I will not comment though...since I do not know details of this case.
     
  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Agreed
    which I feel only Makes my point all the stronger
    When you buy the final product you aren’t buying the original idea that gave birth to the product
    I wasn’t trying to bring you up, I just was trying to make sure there weren’t any misunderstanding between us about what I was saying
    Of course I can

    This is Jesus Navas
    upload_2021-10-19_1-53-40.jpeg

    Lol
    All jokes aside proving or disproving that there was a man behind the “Biblical figure” Is within the realm of possibility

    And I do believe there is a documentary about it

    I don’t know about you but I know Mike Tyson ia certainly Powerful enough to kick my ass
    No, Because you are not extracting anything you’re simply ease dropping

    The information is still coming from that particular individual......Even if they don’t know you are also hearing it

    Reading body language, that’s actually something I studied. But it’s not a practice of extracting, it’s the skill of reading Deceptive behavior......It’s really nothing about extracting ideas

    torturers....are looking for information not ideas and I feel the methods

    Spy’s......Are we talking fiction or reality
    Im not sure I can agree with your assessment here, people are still being prosecuted to this day for these type of things Even if there’s a lot of people getting away with it
    well I don’t have anything to add to that
    Well I want to add that I don’t believe he was trying to be a “Censorship dog” (as you put it) when he was trying to control The distribution of his work

    I always felt it was more about trying to make sure the wrong people didn’t profit from his labors
    Understood
     
  15. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Excellent. That's keeping this professional and civilized.

    This is a common thing actually. (For people to take up names of gods)

    Example:

    MV5BZjlhOTllZDctZTEyNC00ZTZhLWIwODItOTVlNDlhY2FkNjNjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjQwMDg0Ng@@._V1_.jpg

    This celebrity is named ZEUS mendoza.

    MV5BZjlhOTllZDctZTEyNC00ZTZhLWIwODItOTVlNDlhY2FkNjNjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjQwMDg0Ng@@._V1_.jpg


    And this guy...

    These guys names ....are all KRISHNA.

    images.jpeg-5.jpg


    This guy is named: MUHAMMAD

    1200x0.jpg

    And this guy is considered to be a reincarnation of BUDDHA.

    images.jpeg-6.jpg

    Bodily Strength is just one way out of many; for a person to have power.

    If he video recorded the data....who is the real source?
    Example. A secret meeting is held by business tycoon millionaires. They talk of plans and ideas. But a spy leaks information to the media. Who is the source? (The spy? Or was the spy honestly exposing the true ideas of these millionaires?)



    Torture was mainly an ancient method used sometimes to get information. (This includes ideas too).
    Spies are also ancient. (Famously portrayed in character of James bond and the incredible spy gadgets of Q.
    Celebrities today can hardly keep secrets from paparazzi journalists.
    I do not believe that hardly any secrets actually exist today, as they did 100 years ago or more. Governments, Social media, and technology, brings just about everything in the dark into, into the light.
    Example. Scandals in the catholic church...pedophile activity, residential school Graves, etc

    Sure....but judges also are dismissing many irrelevant lawsuits as well...

    By he I assume you refer to Prince?

    He was trying to censure others from profiting from his works. But this kind of censorship was more noble I suppose...(in the sence that he was trying to secure his own profits and rights to his works).
     
  16. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Yes that’s what I was trying to do

    I’ve really been enjoying this conversation and I didn’t want any misunderstandings to mess that up
    I know I was just trying to have some fun, although I do believe the name Jesus was used before it got attached to “a god”
    it was not his original name
    He took the name Mohammed after joining the Muslim faith

    Yeah it was just another joke on my part
    Example. A secret meeting is held by business tycoon millionaires. They talk of plans and ideas. But a spy leaks information to the media. Who is the source? (The spy? Or was the spy honestly exposing the true ideas of these millionaires?)[/quote]
    That’s like asking if a video recording catches a crime on tape who actually committed the crime?

    In your example ,The original source of the information woukd still be those Tycoon millionaires

    The spy and his tape would be the mediums by which the information with spread
    You’re right secrets can’t be held like they were 100 years ago, but that’s because everybody’s always posting everything they do from taking a vacation to taking a shit

    Before I learned how to use my phone and my social media just a tad bit better how do you should get updates with any of my friends into the Burger King

    It was ridiculous
    That’s true but I feel the fact that they make it all the way up to see the judge speaks volumes

    If these cases were so irrelevant they should’ve been squashed before they get to that level
    Yes
    I feel the same way

    He often spoke about his music as if they were his children…..He also wasn’t fond of the record labels giving his music to other people so that they can do their own rendition

    But he had no problem handing out his work two other artists on his own
     
  17. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. It was once just a common name among the ancient jews.
    True. If i recall my American history, black muslim movements among African Americans go back to Malcolm x. And Malcolm x himself had older teachers from the back to Africa movement which started in reconstruction periode that followed the Civil War. (So late 1800s). The African Americans of this school of thought, believed, in the early Era, (late 1800s to early 1900s), that integration into white America was impossible, and that they should return to Africa. Malcolm xs reformed politics, I believe accepted America as a home, but promoted a kind of de-christianization of African descendants of slaves who where given foreign Christian names. They believed Islam was more natural to their African homeland, since the Arabs took Islam to Africa before the European Christians. And that Islam did not have an oppressive colonial system found in the European systems. That explains why many African Americans took up Muslim names.
    Okay. good way to put it. And would it not be logical to say that this spy medium "extracted" information, that was not intended to be spread out to the public?

    Interesting. But there seems to be something so wrong with that attitude. (Ones children is ones music).

    Alot of people I think fail to understand that their ideas no longer belong to them once they go public and spread among others. Ideas gone public are like language. (No one can actually own language). (Even though there are grammar police who try to control it).

    A lot of people want to be in charge of there destinies. They want to be authorities. They want control. Unfortunately higher powers of life have other plans in store for them.
     
  18. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    You are well informed
    “Extracted”?

    I would say know because the word “extracted” implies that the method of obtaining the information was forced out of people in some way
    Well both are created after all
    but again, it’s not the idea that becomes public, it’s a product that was inspired by the idea
    but that is a circular argument
     
  19. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    You have a good point. (Since the information was obtained without force in the scenario). But it still could be called invasive. The paparazzi in the life of the famous often obtain information and thus ideas for many business, who like to make profit by selling it to readers who just love buying such literature devoted to gossip.

    I suppose most methods of obtaining ideas from others that where unwilling to share information should be phrased in a better way. (Example it was obtained in an invasive way, rather than being obtained by extraction).

    This is actually how many decepticons such as reflector, soundwave, or lazerbeak obtained information too.

    Music...being a work of art was created.

    But children are NOT created. (They where born...very different)

    Okay. This is actually a big thing in transformers too.

    Let us examine the episode roll for it.

    This is a scene with reflector.
    (From 4.35 to 5.45)



    Question for you: how did reflector obtain the secret code?

    Is it logical to say that someone created a secret code with the intent to keep it secret? Yet reflector got the information. (The code was someone's idea. And reflector got it right?) Any objections to this?


    What about that scene with Soundwave?

    300px-RollForIt_SoundwavescansChip.jpg

    Would you agree that this is definitely extracting information?
     
  20. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I think a better word would be intrusive
    I would say that they obtain information and then come up with their own ideas but I guess that’s a minute difference
    Even though we never Really saw it it used very much In the cartoon it was said that sound will you have the ability to read minds, and with that ability I could see him actually obtaining ideas from others

    But not so much with the other two guys
    children are “Created” From the Chromosomes, genes, proteins aka the building blocks of their parents DNA

    In ideal cases it’s a labor of love and dedication

    Some artists describe the music making process in a similar way

    It’s clear to see that he saw the code being imputed useing the Magnifying scope of his camera mode

    it’s like when one student Cheats on a math test by looking over at the guy at the next desk and useing his answers
    No the code is a product

    Yes...Someone came up with the idea to create a code with the intent to keep a secret

    Once they actually come up with a code, and input it into a security system, It is no longer an idea but an actual product

    It can be used it has been input it into a security system it is not the equivalent of a tangible object it is no longer an idea

    Well like I said soundwave has the ability to read minds

    So this Particular case is definitely a case of extracting information, but it is not a case of extracting idea

    Although one would assume he could use the same ability to extract ideas