What would you change about any show?

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Heavy Unit, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Can you see Autobots raiding Decepticon colonies and taking the energy back to Cybertron?
     
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  2. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    It’s possible but to tell the truth I don’t see the Deceptacon’s establishing many colonies of their own

    On the other hand I could see them very easily conquering other worlds
     
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  3. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    To me, any Decepticons who remained very loyal to the Decepticon cause and thus loyal to Shockwave, I can see them setting up colonies where fuel is transported back to Cybertron.

    But say the more selfish of Decepticons, I can see them as just establishing their own colonies or just ransacking planets like pirates.

    Just to be more clear on fuelling the Autobots who stayed behind as per the ones likes Tracks and Skids in your example, do you see them as being able to mine locations nearer to Cybertron to allow them to have sufficient fuel to keep fighting a guerilla type war on the remaining Decepticons?
     
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  4. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    The majority I think would agree to this too. I would somewhat agree. But all the upgraded bodies and sparks or personality and memory programs do change the characters. Sometimes that change is big enough to make the characters even take up new names. (Eg. Orion pax was gone, and now it's Optimus prime; and Megatron is gone and now it's galvatron.)

    As you know, I believe that Beast Wars is continuing the g1 animation.

    Only thing that Beast Wars adopts from comics is ideas, nothing more. But as to timeline: everything points to animation timeline of events. (Eg. Events from the movie; starscreams ghost after galvatron destroyed him on account of betrayal; vector sigma and its key; plasma energy chamber; an organic cybertron; the matrix as a talisman)

    And yeah....I know you will definitely contest against at least some of those things.

    Yes a great idea. It's interesting how Megatron seemed to have treasured cybertron. (Even galvatron in the movie treasured cybertron). But by season 3 episode 7, he is trying to destroy it. Not even an attempt to reconquer it. I think explanation is because of his plasma bath that affected his mind a bit. And also, because of the fact that he no longer owned or governed cybertron. Runamuk and blast off clearly seemed to function as security forces who guarded and blasted any intruders in "decepticon territory". This helps to show why decepticons care about places or guard places. (Only if they are in charge and own it).

    According to that ghost of a long dead prime...or to the matrix, (from that scene about cybertrons creation in 5 faces of darkness), the quintessons at first recycled the robots. The scene portrays something similar to the comics smelting pool, which decepticons also used to recycle dead transformers. It seems once the transformers where alive and able to think, feel, and desire rights and freedoms from oppressive rule, this cruelty was a big reason to lead to an organized revolt against the quints. They used the robots as slave laborers, as gladiatorial entertainers where they where forced to fight each other or other aliens to death, as well as spontaneously select some to be thrown into lava pits to be melted down and recycled.

    I think eternal life is just a state of mind and a belief system. Its possible that the quints recycle programs and vector sigma itself kept on recycling and ressaurecting at least a few selected individuals. The majority I think where forgotten and never appear again. I bet cybertron and the planet of junk is full of corpses of long dead robots who where never reactivated or recycled.

    I do not agree with this. And you yourself acknowledged that it was geared mainly to the kids.

    I think the real target was souls rather than money or toys. (Although these things where also a factor to a lesser degree).
     
  5. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    To me, Galvatron is just acting like a spoilt brat and he seems to have a lot less ideas than Megatron. It seems, like he has just given up on retaking Cybertron, and is just happy to blow it up.

    Interesting observation about the security.

    To me, for example I just want the Decepticon statues in the Hall of Heroes scene to be dead, I hate to think that Megatron, Shockwave, Soundwave, etc, are just reincarnation of those statues.
     
  6. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Tracks and Skids are part of the group that remain on earth after the story in question

    but I can see guys like Topspin and the others trying to find way to get energy


    i know that’s what you believe

    but the facts of the matter is that the Beast Wars creators adopted far more from the comics then just ideas

    Adding Primus alone changes some of the basic fundamentals that the g1 cartoon established

    I don’t want to make a long argument about this again, but adding Primus into the g1 cartoon timeline causes a lot of new contradictions that would need all new stories to fix

    Beast Wars didn’t even handle the Matrix in a way that fit either the cartoon or the comic

    I see no reason to create new contradictions when there are far to many already

    I find those changes to be more related to maturing/growing up then an indication that they were different people

    The name change from Orion to Optimus…….I don’t find it as evidence that Orion was gone, more like he grew up and took a tribal name

    Megatron to Galvatron……Megatron was certainly not gone, he was just given a new suit to were the movie shows that

    Unicron giving him a new name was a way of labeling him, it was a “not too subtle” way to display his power over Megatron

    why Meg/Gal would keep the name afterwards is more difficult to explain, maybe as a way to re-take ownership of himself……or like how the autobots took their own slave mark and make it a symbol of freedom

    Well yeah, they were trying to sell toys……They would’ve had to target the kids

    And I know you don’t agree but even you can’t deny the simple fact that this cartoon originally came into being because hasbro wanted to sell toys

    Sure the guys that worked on the cartoon may have but some love into their work but transformers wasn’t the love child of artist, it was a work for hire

    To me the difference is like looking at music groups,

    some bands are guys that started out as a group of friends that found each other , had a love of music and tried to share their art and love of music with the world, Work hard for years and sometimes you get lucky getting a recording deal

    other bands are put together by record companies Executive just because they all look good together and maybe can sing a little
     
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  7. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Interesting enough in the original script for the 86 film Cyclonus (and his Armada) Scourge (and the sweeps) were supposed to be reincarnation of those statues in the hall of heroes
     
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  8. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    In beast Wars, Primus is merely a name that is used. (In only 2 occassions). There was never any actual history or appearances of Primus as in the comics. Just like the name of the Ark is used, the name Primus may simply refer to Vector Sigma, (or as I suspect a legendary first prime). The covenant of Primus referred to him as a kind of heroes who fought a villain. That initself is nothing like the comics. In comics, Primus was cybertron... as a god. Beast Wars does not follow this timeline.

    G1 season 1 and 2 had no matrix. In a prime problem episode... lazerbeak blasts prime in chest, and we see no matrix either when ratchet is fixing him. Yet children would not see season 3 and the movie as a contradiction to season 1 and 2. Also in comics, the matrix as a talisman shows up much later. It was said to have been in primes corpse all along (see matrix quest saga from marvel comics). Previously, matrix was called (the creation matrix), and it seemed to be part of primes mind that could be transferred as a spirit even unto humans
    No contradictions seen by children.
    In beast Wars, the matrix is explained to be as some kind of receptive spark held inside a talisman by a Prime (leader). In g1 no clear concept of a spark existed. Matrix does appear to be spiritual energy though...that's alive.

    You can choose to see contradiction....just as council of nicea saw contradictions in different theologies held by different bishops of different churchs in 4th century AD).

    I think Alpha Trion baptized and christianed Orion with a new name. In one episode, Alpha Trion seemed to suggest that he was Optimus primes creator and father. And we also see this technique pulled by the quints too. (Eg against marrissa fairbourne)

    250px-Killingjar_marissa_and_monster.jpg

    Flint-Season3.jpg

    I think that they where giving kids ideas...for free..... no money....therefore no selling....
    But of course, it would promote a love of transformers and therefore a desire for toys.

    Just like in a church, all the talk of Bible could and did promote a desire for religious images of all the characters of the Bible and of the saints, and of religious icons.

    I do deny this. The church never wanted to sell god. In the same way transformer creators where not motivated by money or by a need to sell toys.

    The church has also hired mission workers to engangelize people and to make people into believers. But many did this for free without pay as well..

    Plenty of musicians play music for a love of music itself. People just like to do things and wish to express themselves. (No money involved in that). But sure....if given a chance and possibility....people would try and make money by selling their music to others who demand it.
     
  9. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    the name was used on more then 2 occasions

    and the final episodes , With the covenant of Primus, made it quite clear just exactly the analogy and parallel the writers was trying to make with human religion and the idea of a Deity

    And considering who wrote those episodes there’s no way around it, the addition of Primus into the beast wars back story can not be reconciled with the g1 cartoon without major contradictions
    you are not exactly right there

    I saw it as a contradiction, so did a few friends I had, even though we didn’t see it as a big one as prehaps he had it in a safer place (I know it sounds like a dumb kids are idea but at least it’s possible)

    Also, You do know that a lot of fans should this day use this example as a major contradiction in the series

    Again you’re not exactly right there

    The comics were geared twards an older audience from day one, Not to mention that the fans of comic books in general are extremely nitpicky about contradictions and continuity issues

    Fans of the comic book have a long debated at the contradictions given in the comic books over how the matrix functioned and appeared

    Not exactly

    Beast Wars depicted 2 different concepts as “the matrix”

    1)What is a afterlife dimension that every spark Originated from and return to after their bodies that died

    While this differed from both g1s I wouldn’t call it a contradiction but more of an expansion on the concept

    2)nothing more then a spark container

    And that’s the contradiction.
    When Primal took the matrix in his hands and took the Spark of G1 Optimus into his body leaving it empty it created a big contradiction

    (True they try to explain it in a liter comic books but not everybody acceptable those exclamations)

    I know that many, yourself included, can overlook these contradictions, sone people with even say that the g1 cartoon had its own continuity contradictions so theees no big deal is beast wars had a few

    but the way I see it, if you are going to write new stories abd claim that they are a direct connection/continuation of a story that came before then it should be easier not to create new contradictions
    Yeah that’s the kind of thing I meant but yours is a much better analogy
    Well he wasn’t completely wrong
    Interesting way to look at it….I like it

    I always just thought of it as an attempt to scare her by giving her the impression that her father had become a monster
    I would call that a “Happy consequence” to an endeavor that did not begin with altruistic intentions

    My feeling about how Big organized religion came into being really isn’t appropriate for this topic
    I know you do but the evidence is there for all to see

    The Hasbro toy Executive wanted to find new toys to sell in the American market, so they went to a Japanese toy show to buy the rights to sell toys from Japan in America

    At that point the church was a long pre-existing entity with at least some aspirations And wanting to elevate the human soul

    When it came to transformers, the pre-existing entity was Hasbro……A company known for sewing toys for profit
    I don’t think you get my point that time

    I don’t know that people playing music for free my point was about how Some representative I have taken advantage of that and found ways to monopolize and mass produce for only the purpose of profit profit
     
  10. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Only occassions Primus was mentioned: 1) in a saying eg. "Primus help us all if that thing survived" . A quote of rhinox talking about rampage.

    2) the biggest mention of Primus was in the transformer Bible called covenant of Primus. And in here, Primus seems to be more like a more mortal Hercules son of God, rather than as the God of the marvel comics.
    It's very clear that the Primus of beast Wars is not the marvel Primus. And it's clear that Beast Wars is expanding and following up on the g1 genesis of cybertron.

    Me or my childhood freinds never even noticed any contradictions. (6 to 8 year Olds.. . simply never notice such things). This became a noticible issue for me way later on as an adult collector who re-visited g1 and studied it in detail.

    Typically I wish to avoid any universal talking. So I will speak of my own experiences. My first comic I ever owned was this one:

    8-1.jpg

    Issue #8 (it actually came out in the summer of 1985 just before season 2 began). I admit that i could barely read... yet alone even speak English back in those days. All I knew was that transformer toys and characters where awesome, and that marvel pictures and stories seemed very appealing. And I was not alone in that, for I saw other children in kindergarden and grade 1 all under a transformer spell, collecting toys and comics.
    I did not care about who the moral censors claimed it was geared towards. All I cared about is myself and what I liked.

    Matrix and vector sigma I believe are one and the same. They are the sources of this transformer heaven or afterlife. (Which in reality is a computer dreamworld much like star treks holodek program.)

    Nope. Matrix was seen as a spark of a prime that was directly connected with vector sigma. Even in g1, only the center of the talisman, which was energy, was seen as the actual essence of the matrix.

    Yet this empty shell thing also occurred in g1. Watch ending of return of Optimus Prime, where only a shell remained.

    Not all see things as contradictions. Some see harmony. Just like some call sounds music, while other call the same thing noise pollution or terrible music.

    But if everyone followed such a rule. There would never be any sequals g1 would remain as a Bible that is closed and came to an end with book of revelation for Christians or with malachi or deuteronomy for jews.

    I think transformers served children's interest way more than it served interests of any greedy money worshipping evil oligarchs at hasbro or marvel.

    That's because tfw2005 is likely run by evil Christian communist politicians who want to censor people and muzzle any free speech that criticizes them or opposses their hold on slaves.

    That's just the point of view of a few greedy oligarchs who want to make money at other people's expenses. The children do not see things this way. Nor do the real government.

    ELEVATE HUMAN SOUL!? LOL....
    they wanted to control and mold the souls of their Christian sheep.

    I do not see hadbro as a bunch of blood sucking parasites hell bent on stealing people's money for selfish interests like making profit. (Yes planet earth has ferengi characters....but everyone is not like the ferengi)

    Okay. But again....not everyone functions like the ferengi.
     
  11. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    right as in “god help us”
    Which is what Primus was in marvel
    right, the transformers Bible

    as in comparison to the Judeo Christian Bible

    Containing the words of God, as he wanted it written

    And as I pointed out , The episodes in question were written by Simon Furman….the guy that created the origin of Marvels Primus

    It’s obvious that Simon was attempting to include his early work on Primus from the comics into the beast wars back story

    I don’t always argue that writer intent has a place in these type of conversations, Largely because the writers don’t always Accomplish what they were intentions were

    But Simon certainly accomplish this

    I think you misunderstood that

    The Hercules like hero that the book was referring to was TigerTron
    Maybe we were older than you

    I won’t ask you your age but I’m in my 50s now, And I had very early exposure to comic books and soap operas.

    Both of which probably depend on continuity and long connected stories so perhaps that helps us recognize the contradictions much earlier then others

    Even as a child I remembered contradictions In sitcoms mike threes company or even the Brady Bunch
    The first comic books I read were from 1975

    Just to clarify I’m not suggesting there’s anything wrong with a young child reading books that are geared towards older children…..In fact I think it’s a good idea

    The only thing I was trying to point out was at the comic book sometimes told a more mature story
    I know you believe that…. And I’m not saying that you were wrong since the additional stories have liens in that direction

    but based on tge g1 cartoon by itself, they didn’t draw a very had connection between Vector Sigma and the matrix
    Yes
    The matrix was seen as the place that Primes spark was located

    and when they took it out the matrix was empty

    this does not fit with the g1 cartoon
    but not because of tge removal of a spark

    Beast wars says the matrix holds primes spark, and that they needed to remove the spark to save primes bidy

    so they removed tge matrix and then removed the spark from it and put it in primal

    that means the spark is in the matrix

    but in the g1 cartoon we saw both Optimus and Rodimus survive with out the matrix anywhere near them
    I completely disagree
    There is absolutely no reason why a story cannot be written that actually fits into what has already been established without creating new contradictions

    Even the story I proposed in an early post about how to introduce and expand where the season 2 characters came from woukd fit in perfectly with out Creating new problems

    All it takes is a little hard work and research to make sure what you’re writing doesn’t cause a new problem
    I guess I can agree with that

    But my point was only that the the needs of tge Money worshipers, as you put it, what is the driving force in the creation of this franchise
    It wasn’t their point of you

    It was the reason why they created the franchise
    Like I said I’m not going to get into a conversation on religion
    I believe you put it a bit more harshly than I did

    I can imagine that they wanted to make an honest dollar but at the same time that’s still looking for profit
     
  12. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with this interpretation. I only wish to note that there are many gods and that cultures perceive them differently.

    Simon Furman appears as the name of the writer of g1 marvel comics transformers issues #60 and 61. (1989). This is where Primus makes a first appearance and also where we get the comics cybertron genesis.

    10 years later, this same guy I think also wrote the script for beast wars nemesis episodes (1999).

    That might explain all these comic book ideas. Still, I do not believe that the credit for anything belongs to just one guy. The cause of these things are way more complex than just one guys creative genius.

    Let us examine the quotations we are given:

    1) i am that which is, which was, and is yet to come! And you will know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you!'"
    There seems to have been a primitive legendary first decepticon leader called megatron.

    2) And there came a hero who said, "Hurt not the earth, nor the seas, nor the trees, nor the very fabric of time." But the hero would not prevail'".
    "Finish the quote, Megatron. 'Nor would he surrender!'"

    There seemed also to be some kind of first prime.

    Of course, Megatron and primal are using scriptures for their own current purposes. (Eg referring to tigerhawk)

    I am in my 40s now. But I was 6 or 7 years old at the time of my first transformers toys and then comic. (1984 and 1985).

    Understood.

    In beast Wars sparks could survive outside bodies. So long as one carefully removed them. I admit that g1 did not have a clear outlook as to what made a transformer alive. Eg. Prime died. But some guys like Ultra Magnus or junkions took way worse damage and survived. Even in beast Wars, dinobot dies, but waspinator took way worse and survived.

    What saved primes life was not really the matrix.

    I must again emphasize that in all g1, and in beast Wars, the matrix is part of Primus (in comics) and vector sigma (in animation)

    In beast Wars, they removed a spark which was inside the matrix talisman.

    I can not agree to that. I think government is way more powerful and in charge. (Not the rich oligarchs). Now I admit, a guy like Trump is a rich oligarch, who became a president. But oligarchic rich do not run society. In fact the rich and famous are themselves under government and under controls and judgements. Any who practice parasitic profiteering will be taxed and suffer the consequences of injustice.

    I do not believe that tale. I think the government had agendas and plans. They allow things deemed good for society, and punish criminals who live of scamming and robbing others. Government allows people to sell products and make money of them though. .

    Making profit honestly is legal. But deceptions, overcharging, and any evil or dishonest business practices will not go unpunished. It is not in a business interests to go against the government or to scam people.
     
  13. Rumblestorm

    Rumblestorm Well-Known Member

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    Give Cyberverse actual depth.
    Energon would keep the character arcs that would have actually made it a good show.
    Cybertron would have better dialogue and remove any inconsistencies with the previous 2 shows.
    Animated would had its fourth season and a conclusion to Blackarachnia's arc who would have found redemption.
    Prime would have kept Optimus as Orion, having to re-earn his title as Prime.
     
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  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    That must be true

    but it’s use in beast wars is a big change/contradiction from the g1 cartoon
    He also seemed to be a friend to the beast wars creators, I seen a few interviews in which where they claim to use him as a source for a few different stories

    And From what I remember there were others that serve the story consultants and would give the shows creators little ideas of things to use peek the interest of fans
    Or, like the book of Revelations, what they were Reciting Predictions of what was to come

    which was exactly what Rattrap joked about when the Scripture of Tigerhawk was spoken earlier in the story

    And a mighty warrior
    came down from the sky,

    and a rainbow was upon his head,
    and his feet like pillars of fire!

    And the great dragon was
    cast out onto the earth,

    and his followers were cast out with him!


    This prophecy was about Tigerhawk
    I was already in my mid teens at that point

    And according to Rattrap and Rhionex they had to be stored in an other body or safe container quickly

    Unless there was special Circumstances the sparks could not exist in the normal world for a very long
    I don’t think Falling to pieces is way worse damage but that’s an entire different debate
    I never said it was
    And I must emphasize again, in the g1 cartoon itself, they never drew a strong connection between vector sigma and the matrix
    And that spark should have never been located in the matrix
    The government may place regulations in front of the companies but they don’t go out until the companies how and where to make money

    In other words, when talking about how transformers came to be, the government didn’t tell Hasbro to go by Japanese toys and sell them in America
    Same as above

    The government may have aloud Hasbro to do what they did, But they didn’t tell them how to do it
    Are you suggesting that the government is not dishonest at times, that it does not do scams on people?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  15. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Right. And the dragon I am sure they would say referred to beast wars Megatron.

    But if your interpretation is correct, then the prophecy was not fulfilled. For in fact it was the dragon (megatron) who destroyed the mighty warrior. (Tigerhawk)

    What about that time he got crushed into a square? 200px-ComingFuzors1_Waspinator_cubed.jpg

    I disagree. Notice how Alpha Trion appeared both in the matrix and vector sigma? And in rebirth The will of the matrix seems to be also the will of Vector sigma. And prime needs guidance from his matrix, where Alpha Trion or some other spirit of a prime is at. And Alpha Trion has a key to Vector Sigma built right into his program too. And both vector sigma and Alpha Trion claim to be a creator of prime. I see it all connected.

    Under democratic governments, companies are allmost as if mini nations inside the bigger nation. Yet I feel that government presence and intervention is everywhere, and there are hardly any hidden secrets that they do not know about. Anything companies do is because they permitted it and because it is lawful.

    Agreed

    There are many levels of government. There are also many government workers who claim to represent the government, but in fact are not, and do things independently without approval.

    I think government works by a kind of law of karma. Eg. They may punish the dishonest with dishonesty. And they may allow scammers to operate for a while, but reserve a day of judgement to hit them at some point. I have never seen or met any of them, but I know they exist and yield great power, and they have an allmost omni present and all knowing ability. And they do intervene in civilian affairs. But there are millions of false quaks and pretenders who claim to represent or to be the government too.
     
  16. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    yes
    I gave No interpretation whatsoever….I was just quoting on of the other “prophecyies” from the covenant of Primus

    the one I quoted was from earlier in the story, from the earlier episode, when Tigerhawk first arrived and defeated Megatron at tge end of that episode

    I honestly don’t remember that one

    But a lot of that stuff is just dumb to be silly
    which at best only shows that Alpha Trion had connections to both at sone point in his life
    in the rebirth the matrix was used as a “Telephone” so Prime could talk to Alpha Trion

    there was no indication that the matrix had a will of its own in the rebirth
    Well please forgive me but I don’t fully agree or disagree with everything you have posted here

    But I am choosing not to reply to it as honestly the topic just doesn’t seem like fun to pursue
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  17. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    I suppose one could say the prophecy was fulfilled because THE VOK using tigerhawks body, destroyed megatrons headquarters. But one could also say that this is a false interpretation of the prophecy ...because Tarantulas in fact captured tigerhawk and exercised the vok spirit from him....and then a bit later on... Megatron got a new headquarters...the nemesis...and then destroyed Tigerhawk.

    As i said before, waspinator took way heavier punishments...the heaviest most brutal assaults on numerous occassions....yet survived them all... unlike dinobot. Even Megatron on one occasion was blown to bits by a super charged terrorsaur, yet survived...likely saved by scorponok who salvaged him. Maybee dinobot did not survive because he was not treated quickly enough.

    The matrix is certainly a medium of some kind.

    No way I disagree. Watch return of Optimus Prime. Goldbug asked the ressaurrected Prime what the plan was to fix the plague problem. Prime did not have a plan because he did not have the matrix, which had all the "accumulated wisdom". Primes first objective therefore was to retrieve the matrix from rodimus in order to get instructions. Clearly the matrix is the real brains not that clone of prime given life by a quintesson.

    Okay.
     
  18. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t call any of it a false prophecy

    All the prophecies are just detailing different events

    In other words the prophecy speaks about winning a fight the war

    I always felt being extremely low on energy also contributed to Dinobots dieing
    In G1, I won’t completely disagree with you
    why are you talking about the return of Optimus Prime?

    please re-read what I originally said

    “there was no indication that the matrix had a will of its own in the rebirth
    you know none of that really shows the matrix had a will of its own

    all it shows was that the matrix had the information Optinus needed

     
  19. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    We are now entering a philosophy of religion topic. Prophecy is about forecasting a future. Ancient Roman's as early as the 600s BC, where writing down sayings of their sybil oracle prophetess. These collected sayings were treated as scriptures by roman priests of the early republic. By 500s BC, roman colleges for priests where already using these scriptures of the sybil scriptures, as prophecies about the future. This was way before scholars among jews or Christians saw biblical scriptures like book of Daniel or revelation as talking about roman or medieval times (their present times).
    Problem with prophecy. Interpretation differs among individuals. This is in fact the problem of any dogmatism who is worried about mainting one universal truth/doctrine.
    Beast machine Megatron and medieval priests both solved this problem by making souls into one all spark, or unto one body of God.

    4122695-beast machines megatron.jpg


    300px-EndgameI_spark_containment_unit.jpg

    I can agree with that.

    Okay....in rebirth. But I must point out rebirth is just continuation from return of Optimus Prime. The principle was therefore already established.

    If vector sigma is alive then so is the matrix. I would argue that the matrix does have a will. (Eg it clearly rejected galvatron) it seems to choose or accept only certain individuals. It seems to talk to only a select few.
     
  20. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Nice analogy you got there

    Just because “the rebirth” follows “the return of Optimus prime” doesn’t make it a continuation

    and besides, by the end of the return of prime the matrix was just an empty shell

    and truth be told ,the idea that the matrix of the cartoon ever had a will of it’s own was always Tenuous at best

    So there’s really no had principle established.
    if that’s your opinion that’s fine

    but there isint very much in the g1 cartoon to support that
    Did it reject galvatron or was galvatron Physically incompatible?

    Does it accept certain people or is it that only those that are Physically compatible able to use it?

    does it chose who to talk to or is it that only those that are Physically compatible able to talk to it?

    The evidence given in the g1 cartoon supports both theories