What would you change about any show?

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Heavy Unit, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    Yes your right.

    I meant an image of a cybertonium alien atom it shows up about less than 5 seconds after the scenes you displayed..

    It looks like this:

    atom-eng.gif


    It shows up in 16.23 minutes into the show.



     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  2. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    If I where in charge and the director, of a masterpiece g1 animation, I simply must use the marvel idea to introduce and explain how season 2 characters where introduced. Marvel itself was also a masterpiece!

    17-1.jpg

    18-1.jpg
     
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  3. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    It probably was a masterpiece but just using myself as an example have watched all the original cartoon episodes multiple times but have not read much of the comics. To me, I would just introduce the majority of the season 2 characters has just been on the ships that crashed 4M years ago, but introduce season 3 characters as fighting (or mining planets) to help win the war for their respective armies. BTW, a cartoon Straxus character would be awesome.
     
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  4. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    It's a fact that kup was certainly an autobot slave for a while at some point mining for crystals of chaos.

    230px-Chaos_deathcrystalmines.jpg MV5BNTg1MTQzN2UtOTdmYi00ZDBkLWFiMWItNDBjNzA4ZmE3YWEzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzg3MjI0NTM@._V1_.jpg
     
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  5. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    OK something like a visual interpretation of the chemical composition

    I remember that now
    Yes most certainly a masterpiece of its own at times

    for me I would use those Marvel origin stories for other season 2 characters that we didn’t see in desertion of the Dinobots

    we could even use it with the Protectabots since that never got any Any explanation as to where they came from at all
     
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  6. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Being not that familiar with the story, how would you have the relevant season 2 Autobots notified to return to Earth and I gather they just board the space bridge?

    With the Protectobots how would you cover them appearing much later in the series from a fictional senses, and would you only have them being able to combine after arriving on Earth?
     
  7. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Well I say at least a 2 part episode needs to be written to tell the story

    I also think we need to eliminate/not use any season 2 autobots to appear in “Desertion of the Dinobots” Even if they weren’t shown to have been affected

    like Blaster and a few others weren’t shown to be effected but If they were fully functional then they should’ve been able to help out Spike and Carly

    But we still have a number of characters to choose from….i say they should be forming 2 separate units on cybertron

    Unit 1 (Consisting of season two characters not to appear in desertion of the dinobots)
    Skids.
    Beachcomber
    Tracks.
    Smokescreen
    Warpath.
    Cosmos
    Seaspray

    Unit 2 Consisting of non-show characters ,mail away figures and mis-colored toys that have since Become popular characters within the fandom

    Deluxe figures
    Whirl & Roadbuster

    The Jumpstarters
    Topspin & Twintwist

    The Omnibots
    Camshaft , Downshift & Overdrive

    The Powerdashers
    Not originally given names other than Powerdasher Jet,Car,Drill but were given names more recently)

    Chroma (jet) Aragon (car) Zetar (drill)

    Minibots
    Bumper (A different micro change toy that was accidentally packed on Cliffjumper and Bumblebee card backs in 1984)

    BumbleJumper (mis-colored Red Bumblebee figure again from the 80s

    Cliff-Bee (Miss color yellow Cliffjumper figure)

    Time warriors Mail away figures and different Wrist watches from the times that would transform into little robots

    I don’t believe they were ever given any names, they can either remain nameless or they could come up with names that are synonymous with issues of time

    I see both of these units working as resistance cells but from two different areas of Cybertron

    And what I would like to see would be for the cartoon to try to adapt the stories that @Refletor3 pointed out about above but with a few twists to make it fit into the cartoon universe

    Basically , Shockwave decides to try To start experimenting on the space bridge to improve The technology and perhaps make a permanent space bridge pipeline between the earth and Cybertron …….And he is doing so by sacrificing a sub-faction of the autobots known as The time warriors

    Ironically The time warriors have a long given up participating in warfare and and have fully dedicated themselves recording all historical events, but there was a time when their ancestors were capable of traveling the time stream

    Shockwave believes he can use the bodies/sparks/souls (what ever) of the modern Time warriors to enhance and stabilize the space bridge so that the Decepticons can Instantaneously appear anywhere in the Universe at any moment they want

    (If the plot things familiar I’m borrowing it from Star Trek and a race called the Iconian and their gateways)

    Both Of the resistance Units I posted above Respond to the distress call of the time warriors But they end up arriving a little too late and also don’t work very well to start off

    I don’t want to try to tell an entire story right now, The two teams come together but not before the loss of the live of a few members of the time warriors As shockwave successfully completes his experiment Forming a permanent bridge to earth

    The remaining time warriors, that have regained their powers over space and time ,formulate a plan that would shut down the bridge forever but it requires that the 2 teams split up to Deactivate the bridge from both ends While the time warriors themselves Use their powers at the center of the bridge

    In the end Unit 1 remains on earth and joins with Optimus

    Unit 2 remains on Cybertron With some of their members eventually joining the wreckers

    The time warriors End up entering the time stream where they can more effectively record All historical Events from a Plane of existence that is not affected by linear time

    I would have them be brought to earth as part of the “Metroplex Project”, I believe that the Writers would be able to use The exclusive Japanese episode known as “scramble city” but with some rewrites

    They were basically brought to earth to both protect and cover up/Keep secret the underground building of Metroplex

    As to the ability of combining……If we’re talking a flashback episode then I would suggest that the ability to combine was given to them when they arrived on earth
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  8. PrimeSmokescreen 04

    PrimeSmokescreen 04 Well-Known Member

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    In storytelling, when a character theorizes on the reasoning of something and no counter is given... this is the writers way of giving you the explanation.
     
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  9. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    These words here just brought up a philosophical concept of time. (Also, a huge theme in g1, beastwars, and many other TV series). Both marvel and animation universes, have purely fictitious views of how time works. Yet it's all very good for even the most sophisticated adult oriented shows.

    This statement: "plane of existence that is not affected by time" fascinates me. People over 2000 years ago spoke about it.
    And we see it applied everywhere in transformers. Example: in g1 the quints invented time travelling portals that could transport traveller's into the past. And interestingly, earth in 1980s had mysterious time travelling devices left in hidden places. (Example see episode a decepticon raider in king Arthur's court). Even 4 million years ago, the mysterious vok also transported devices and left them all over earth. The vok not only had technology or ability to travel through time but through space itself. And maximals and predacons also had such futuristic miraculous technology that enabled one to travel through time and space (transwarp technology was what it was called). I believe this was how Optimus primal survived that explosion.....he managed to go through transwarp limbo....sometimes also seen as an spiritual heavenly after life or as a dreamworld. This is where rhinox traveled to in order to save and bring back primal from a place. When cheetor asks rhinox where he was; rhinox replied: "where all are one".

    Seems to me that transformers regarded this limbo outside space time, also as a kind of "heaven".

    It's fascinating how this place is treated both as a physical place and as a dream state of mind in transformers science fiction.

    .

    It's even more complicated than that. Because it's allmost always involves a plurality or writers, who themselves get ideas and transfer ideas which originated outside of their personhood.
     
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  10. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I had a feeling that this story idea would peek your interest

    .
     
  11. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    The photo is really interesting that there are multiple Autobots, it makes me wonder how and why Kup got to the planet dread. On TF wiki, it says that Kup crash lands on the planet Dread, does he land alone or with a group of other Autobots. To me, maybe at the start of the war before the golden age, maybe pacifist Autobots escaped to a planet, but the Orbs later found the planet and imprisoned the Autobots. Just on Kup, if there was a show called Kup chronicles, which tells Kup life story in about 10 episodes that fits in with the original cartoon's story arc, I would so watch it.
    I think that some of these characters might have appeared before the Desertion of the Dinobots but I think the episodes could be shuffled so to speak, to avoid a continuity clash.

    Cool, so essentially would you have all these characters die in a battle before the movie, as I do not think any appear in season 3.

    Also (apologies if I have asked before) how would you introduce, Kup, Blur, Hot Rod, Springer and Ultra Magnus and Blasters tapes (the season 3 Autobots who first appear in the movie)?

    Also Broadside and SkyLynx, how would you introduce them?

    Finally, how many Decepticons would you have on Cybertron to combat the 2 Autobot units.
     
  12. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    No shuffling would be necessary, it’s ok that The characters in question appeared before the Desertion of the Dinobots ….. As a matter of fact it makes it work better

    (As a matter of fact I believe the warpath appeared in the first episode of season two)

    I think the best place to put the story I’m talking about would be between season 1 and 2 ……Probably right after the events of heavy-metal war

    All these characters never appeared at all in the cartoon……But many of them did appear in the UK comic books

    But I see no reason to have to kill Any of them at all, not appearing in season 3 doesn’t necessarily mean they were dead

    Just look to the female Autobots…..They never show up again either but there’s no reason to count them among the dead
    I would use The scramble city episode I mentioned earlier to introduce Ultra Magnus snd blasters tapes

    They all would’ve been brought here in secret to work on project metroplex with the protectabots.

    I see no reason to change what we were already told about Skylynx,Kup,Blur and springer……They were living in other parts of the galaxy

    I also don’t think Every new character needs to have an introduction story, so I really don’t think it’s 100% necessary to give one to Broadside ……..But Perhaps a story could be worked up that his part of the team bringing supplies for project metroplex from different areas around earth
    well there weren’t as many “toy only” decepticons (Characters that never showed up in the show) back in the 80s

    so I would like if The 4 deluxe Insecticons get used for once

    upload_2021-10-13_0-56-48.jpeg

    I would also give them the ability to clone themselves like the other team of Insecticons

    And I think to squadrons of Cybertron seekers could combat the other unit
     
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  13. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Just on the end of the Heavy Metal War episode and the commencement of a new episode, I would really like to see how Megatron and the relevant Decepticons on Earth escaped.

    I seem overly fatalistic, to me if characters never showed up again, I pretty much count them as dead. It is a war after all.

    To me, it makes little fictional sense for Blurr and Wheelie to be performing important roles if other more capable (at least less annoying to many) Autobots were alive for instance.

    Just on the series and a bit of a mental note for me, Omega Supreme only makes one appearance in season 3, to me, I assume he was protecting a planet along with say 2 or 3 other Autobots who were not seen again after the movie, but who were not shown to have died (including storyboards) that could be a potential target for the Decepticons and only got called up to episode in the Big Broadcast of 2006 because Sky Lynx was injured from memory.


    I like that if they were supplying energy for the Autobots on Cybertron / preventing Decepticons from bringing in energy to Cybertron.

    To me (apologies for refreshing my own headcanon) but I really like to think that just before the events of the movie, Megatron was trying to assist a warlord on another planet (really he was just stealing energon) and say the Combaticons and Constructicons as well as say some seekers from season 1 who were not named in the show. The Autobots send the likes of Skyfire, Omega, SkyLynx and Aerialbots to bring freedom to that planet which they suceed but with heavy injuries, explaining the absence from the movie, the Constructions would have got on a space bridge to Cyberton but the Combaticons retreated to a nearby moon to monitor proceedings and ensure Autobots on that planet cannot get back to Earth in time for the battle of Autobot City. Say at one point, the Combaticons get called to go to Junkion when Ultra Magnus is known to have the Matrix and when liberating the planet the Autobots get told of a strange robots who were deactivated a long time ago, they turn out to be Broadside and the throttlebots.


    I do like the thought of Deluxe Insecticons being used in additional cartoon episodes. I would either have them have a similar origin to the Insections, there could have been two escape pods that crash land, only they are reborn in the late 1980s or 1990s for example. Or maybe, soon after the Ark left, the Autobots sent a search party or just went looking for fuel to bring back to Cybertron, a group of 4 Decepticons follow the Autobots that end up on a prehistoric organic planet that is not Earth, a battle takes place the Autobots win and the Decepticons are deactivated in a swamp but are reborn many years later as Deluxe Insecticons. I kind of go with the former, a second escape pod as I would use the later for the beast Decepticons that turn up in Rebirth.

    That would be cool.
     
  14. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I never thought much of it

    It was basically a pool, I’m sure they just waited till prime left and flew right out
    That’s fine I just don’t think it’s necessary to actually kill them off, beside like you said it’s a war and we don’t always learn the ultimate outcome of ever Soldier
    If that’s what you would like to see that’s fine

    But like I said I would prefer them to try to work with what’s already been established and not create any new contradictions even if they are very small

    And the idea That these characters were anywhere close enough to affect any kind of activity on cybertron Will go against what they already told us

    I like that idea
    I like this idea as well
     
  15. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    For any Decepticons that are missing in action it seems fine (Reflector and Frenzy are not really seen in season 3, excluding possible animation error in the case of Frenzy), for example, Starscream was left behind in the episode that featured Red Alert, but for me, series 3 is set in 2006 (as per the files of Teletran 2) which gives them a good amount of time to search for lost comrades and the Autobots went at length to recover Skyfire in season 1, for example. Anyway, to me, it just gives the story more closure if most (if not all, and not counting other transformer productions) of the unaccounted transformers actually died.

    I think a lot depends on how strongly you interpret the word re-united, to me, if the likes of Springer were working on other planets for fuel supplies to the Autobots who remained on Cybertron, but then are redeployed on Earth then Cybertron, then in a sense they are reunited with the Autobots.

    Without going over ground we have discussed before, I just think it would be cool if another edition of the movie is released, for example, to celebrate 40 years since the movie was first released, if Flint Dille for example, could do a question and answer session on events relating to the movie (things like what proper backstory he would give to Kup, Springer, and Co especially given dialog in the show that said there were Autobots who were living on Cybertron in the 1980s, how the Autobots built secret bases, what happened to the Decepticon undersea base, etc). To me, this would be a low-cost version of a series 2.5).

    For me, they should have given Sky Lynx a proper backstory, that broadly fits in with season 1 and 2 themes. As SkyLynx, is so boastful, it would be good to know if he was just programmed that way, or is a coping mechanism or something.
     
  16. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I’m confused, what are you referring to about Starscream?
    files of Teletran 2 Made at least 1 mistake when reporting what year some events took place

    but according to the episode “The big broadcast of 2006” At least half of season 3 Took Pl. in 2006

    I don’t like the idea of too much closure

    It ends up limiting the creativity of the writing staff, It’s painted into a corner with which characters they can and cannot use

    I think it’s better to leave the doors open so that if someone writer comes up with an idea for a character he doesn’t have to worry whether or not that particular guy died or did not die
    See that’s just it you’re focusing on the wrong word, the issues isint “Reunite”……it’s “galaxy”

    According to the files guys like Springer were living in other regions of the galaxy

    The way I interpret that they were way to far away to be in any kind of regular contact with Cybertron, and certainly too far away to be working on energy shipments to Cybertron
    Why Flint Dille?
    How about the only guy to actully work on every draft of tge script from the first to tge last?
     
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  17. Refletor3

    Refletor3 Well-Known Member

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    The episode season 3 episode 7 chaos. Tells us that 100,000 years ago kup crash landed on planet dread. (This was the age of shockwaves leadership and of a decepticon empire cyclonus spoke off in 5 faces of darkness). Kup tells of a a robot slave camp that was run by aliens called orbs. It's interesting though that in 2006, galvatron, astrotrain, and the predacons are portrayed as ruling over this planet and continuing to run the mining operation of the chrystals, using alien orbs as the taskmaster that oversee the miner slaves. Decepticons have Long been known to make alliances with other aliens in their administration of their empire. (Eg. See blast off and that mercenary alien; or recall megatrons alliance with Atlantis aliens)
    unnamed-1.jpg
    I like that idea about "the kup chronicles" I would have autobot historian rewind give us history lessons and make episodes out of them too. (Giving us explanations as to origins of many things left unexplained in transformers g1 universe)

    Now that would make for an interesting tale.

    And this too would make for an interesting tale. Skylynx backstory...

    I sometimes wonder if a transformer is even capable of being dead. Their bodies can certainly be destroyed. But all one needs to do to bring one back from the dead is to give them a spark and their personality program. Something only a few had the power to do. (Vector sigma, and the quints, and perhaps primacon too).

    Questions to consider:

    Was Orion pax and Optimus Prime 1 the same guy?

    Was prime 2 (who was revived by the quints the same guy?)

    Was prime 3 (again revived by one quint, the same guy?)

    It is clear that megatrons clone of prime was not the real prime only because his clone lacked a spark. (But megatrons clone of prime had a very close similarity in personality with prime. It was good enough to fool the autobots.

    Was beast Wars ravage the same as the g1 ravage?
    I sometimes wonder if the vok are not just merely evolved quintessons of the future too. In transformers universe, the soul (spark), is definitely immortal. Only bodies can be destroyed in this sci-fi myth.

    I would define the essence of a transformer life, as a spark; which is some kind of sophisticated computer program. I would cover this history with a tale about the origin of Vector sigma. (As a kind of skynet computer created by the quints, that helped quints convert cybertron into a metallic factory, and that at some point became alive, and orchestrated his children transformers revolt from the quints.
     
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  18. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I would say that considering this was a kids cartoon the answer to all three is yes
    From what I remember of that episode Megatron was using the clone body like a puppet…..Yeah let me rewatch the episode

    yes Megatron was in complete control of tge clone, even doing all the talking

    So Megatron must’ve been a really good actor
    which G1 is the real question
     
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  19. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Say in battle a Decepticon gets injured, if the Decepticons lose the battle, they are likely to retreat and leave any fallen Decepticons behind and unlikely to go back and rescue a Decepticon. As such, I think Decepticon is more likely to go missing in action than an Autobot.

    To me, the creators of the show could have brought back season 1 and 2 Autobots in the Rebirth for example or they could have just said that a small Autobot colony patrolled by season 1 and 2 characters and just crossed to them for a cameo appearance. But the fact that these characters never show up makes me just think they died in battle. But if someone made some fiction in late season 3 as a way to introduce season 4 characters, I would be cool if they used season 1 and 2 characters, especially if they made it look like such characters were not on Cybertron or Autobot City for the most part in season 3.

    To me, it is hard to quantify how far is too far in the galaxy is to help the Autobots left on Cybertron. To me, I just like to think that during the 4M years that both sides imported fuel to Cybertron but it was barely enough to survive rather than lead much of an assault on the other side.

    In the Cosmic Rust episode, there the Deceptidons say it is unusual to find an Autobot colony in this region of the galaxy. To me, that means that in other parts of the galaxy there are Autobot colonies and one or two of those colonies could be bringing fuel into Cybertron.

    Just on Springer, given he is the Han Solo type of character and in the movie he does say that he 'has better things to do than die tonight', I could see him and Blurr maybe getting into a battle on Cybertron during the 4M years and just hijacking a Decepticon space shuttle and just abandoning Cybertron and the Autobot cause until rediscovered some how in the years leading up to 2005.

    I just think Flint Dille is the one most responsible for the movie and season 3, but if someone is better suited and still alive, then ask them.

    An interesting thing could have happened in late 2005, say the Orbs realized that the Decepticons were essentially leaderless and kicked any Decepticon forces of the planet, but when Galvatron is rediscovered, he renews a previous agreement.

    Just thinking about SkyLynx, I can imagine that over 9M years ago he had links to Skyfire, being in space and exploration. Relatively soon after, the Constructicons left Cybertron and I assumed just travelled through space in order to avoid Omega Supreme. But I think at times the Constructicons just got bored and massive attacked foreign civilisations in the form of Devastator. To me, I can sort of imagine that one day in space the Constructions are in space and they see SkyLynx in space and as they have been brainwashed by Megatron, just shot SkyLynx out of the sky and SkyLynx crash lands and is rediscovered in the years leading up to 2005 and revived. Maybe just been shot down, really hurts SkyLynx pride and he acts all boastful and stuff.

    Fair question but to me, for the most part transformers do die and do not come back, just in the show which focuses on 1984 to 2007 hardly anyone died, but over the last 11M years or so thousands or even millions must have died and never came back. To me, while I accept that some characters got reformatted and can remember their past life, most do not.
    That is just my outlook, as to me I find the concept of eternal life (at least as a physical being a bit uncomfortable).

    To me Orion Pax and Optimus Prime are essentially the same as are Beast Wars Ravage and cartoon Ravage.
     
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  20. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up
    logically speaking you cannot in for the deaths of any unseen characters simply because the writers don’t think to make some off hand comment about any of them

    The entire series suffered from the fact that it was basically a Toy commercial, The rebirth suffered from this even more…….It was cut from its original five episodes down to three episodes

    There just wasn’t enough time to come up with those type of things to throw in or add into any part of the story something that would fill in old plot holes when they were already being rushed to produce what they had to And barely had enough money to even complete that

    the use of words like “They migrated from other regions of the galaxy” highly imply that there was a great distance involved
    Oh as I said to you before I don’t doubt they were plenty of colonies around

    Just none close enough to be making even periodic trips for energy back-and-forth On any kind of regular basis
    Ron Friedman for the movie
     
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