Yup that sounds right...

Here's the thing though... If someone has amnesia and they're told "you're a Nazi" that is a form of brainwashing. Silverbolt truly believed he was a Predacon… up till the point where he switched sided and joined the Maximals. That's exactly what I meant by his programming didn't take like it did with Quickstrike. For whatever reason Silverbolt held on to enough of his original self to realize he didn't belong with the Predacons. I think it's because of the damage to his stasis pod. His pod did seem to be more heavily damaged than Quickstrike's. The door was even slightly ajar with one of his limbs hanging out of it before he was brought online.

Essentially... Not all reprogramming is created equal. We've seen it have very different effects on different characters at different times. Some times their personality totally changes some times they just have their activation codes changed. Heck with Rhinox specifically Predacon Rhinox, Dumb Tankor, and Rhinox Tankor are all very different evil versions of the same character. So I don't know why you expect every reprogramming to be the same. Clearly they've used different reprogramming methods and different circumstances, with different tactics. That's why they're different despite all being reprogrammed. It doesn't mean they weren't reprogrammed at all, it just means they were reprogrammed a different way.

Think about it like this...

One person is asked "Are you a Nazi" and beaten every time they respond "No" until they eventually cave and agree.

Another person is raised from childhood only knowing the Nazi ideology.

Another person like you said, has amnesia and is just placed in a uniform and told you're a Nazi.

All of these are ways of brainwashing a person to believe the same thing, you're a Nazi. They have different effectiveness and results and can even have different results from person to person. But they're all doing the same thing... making someone into a Nazi. The same could be said of the Predacons, they might be using different methods of reprogramming but the goal is the same. You could say that Silverbolt and Quickstrike never had a shell program only Blackarachnia and Inferno had that. But you can't say they weren't reprogrammed because that's more generic a statement and can mean a lot of different things including changing their activation codes and faction insignias. It's not specific enough to say it never happen. Literally all I have to do to prove it did happen is show their faction symbols are Predacon to say they were reprogrammed as Predacons.

Again, that's kind of my point with the whole she didn't really join the Maximals until she was a Maximal thing.

 

You completely missed my point. You asked what is the Predacon reprogramming if not the changed faction symbols and code. Rattrap changes his faction symbol (and I believe the code too) and he doesn't suddenly turn purple and into an even bigger jackass. Those are cosmetic changes with no effect on who he is. This is not Predacon reprogramming. It doesn't matter if it's voluntary or not. If this constitutes reprogramming, Dinobot should have immediately been a nice guy after changing his code and symbols.

By contrast, Rhinox is actually reprogrammed like Blackarachnia and Inferno which results in a an extreme personality change for Rhinox (and a very visual color change as well, to drive home that this is different from how Rattrap and Dinobot have changed sides up to this point).

 

He stated that he had heard legends about the Ark. She just gave him the details.
And he never called it in. The other Maximals only found it, because they followed Megatron after the big battle at the Axalon.

I’m not even going to bother with this as other people have already gone into depth on it.

Oh, well, that clears it right up.

Calm down, geez. And don’t worry, Alph already provided a proper explanation.

All you said was “the Shell makes them a Predacon! Removing the Shell makes them not a Predacon!” Which answers the question of WHAT the Shell does but not the HOW.
My question was “how does it make them a Predacon? Does it make them more aggressive? Does it give them a heightened sense of self centered-ness, a lack of respect for life, a superiority complex, a drive to conquer those around them rather than seek mutually beneficial coexistence? Does it give them a whole set of ideologies that shape their world view. Those were the kinds of questions I was asking.
Saying “It makes them a Predacon” doesn’t answer any of those questions, and I think that’s why you and I have been talking past each other.

That’s a lot of assumptions to make.

You’ve lost me.

1. Megatron exiled her from the Predacons in “Optimal Situation,” & attempted to kill her.

2. After that, he never suspected her of anything, because he made clear to everyone that she was now their enemy. None of the other Predacons still believed she was on their side.

3. After allying herself with the Maximals, she never once did anything to “work both sides.” She was very clearly helping only the Maximals & participated in many battles against the Preds.

4. She did still identify herself as a Predacon until she upgraded to a TM2. You’re right about that.

It sounds like you’re either blending elements of season 2 & 3 together, or you need to clarify what you mean, or you’re just in need of a rewatch.

 

So did you.

That was a rhetorical question. I emphasized the word PREDACON in that question to make a point.

It is Predacon reprogramming though. He changes his faction symbols to PREDACON and his transformation code to PREDACON hence PREDACON reprogramming. He had to reprogram those thing things to PREDACON otherwise they would still show up as Maximal programming.

He doesn't change color, only Rhinox was ever shown changing color from reprogramming. Blackarachnia also changed color once but for a different reason.

His personality doesn't change because he did the reprogramming HIMSELF it wasn't FORCED on him. How many times do I need to make that distinction. Not all reprogramming is the same. The main purpose of PREDACON programming is to become PREDACON which happens when you have the PREDACON faction symbols and transformation code.

Of course it matters. If a person is voluntarily changing factions then they don't need their personality reprogrammed to be a Predacon because they've already CHOOSEN to be a Predacon. If it's not voluntary that's when they have to change the personality because if they didn't the Predacon programming wouldn't work and they'd just instantly switch back to Maximal like what happened with Silverbolt.

Again no because he wasn't forced to be reprogrammed he WILLINGLY reprogrammed his own FACTION. The personality does not need to change if the character has already willingly chosen to switch factions.

And what about Blackarachnia who they make a huge deal about reprogramming and as everyone has pointed out her personality doesn't change either. WILLINGNESS to change absolutely makes a difference.

Yeah and again this was FORCED on Rhinox, he didn't CHOOSE to become a Predacon like Rattrap CHOOSE to become a Predacon and Dinobot CHOOSE to become a Maximal.

You didn't ask how, you just asked what it does which is self explanatory. I will admit HOW it works is a bit more complicated and not explained well. It seems to rewrite their personality to some extent and endanger their lives if you try to remove it but that's literally all we know beyond the fact that it makes them Predacons.

You didn't make that very clear... especially since you never even said HOW until right now. And yeah I don't have answers for any of those questions.

Again, to be fair, you never asked any of those questions until now. You just asked what it does and "It makes them a Predacon" is a very obvious answer to that question.

Not really any assumptions at all. Most of it was explicitly told to us and the rest is deductive reasoning based on evidence within the show to fill in the blanks they didn't tell us. Rampage never changes his faction from Maximal to Predacon. That's a fact. So it's a reasonable conclusion to make that he was ALWAYS a Predacon.

He's also never referred to as a traitor or anything that would indicate that he was ever a Maximal. So the only assumption being made here is that he was originally a Maximal as there's no evidence to support it...

Well unless you look at that Pre-Beast Wars Protoform X toy made from Prime Megatron that labels him as a Maximal but this feels more like a retcon to me than always being the intention cause nothing in the show at the time ever indicated he was a Maximal.

How? Again this is really simple stuff. Maximals and Predacons are clearly defined things.

Which had nothing to do with the Maximals. Blackarachnia had always shown traitorous tendencies even literally working with Starscream.

Not entirely accurate. Again she was still a Predacon at that point. They didn't consider her an enemy in the same way as a Maximal. She was an enemy in the same way that Tarantulus and the Tripredicus Council and Ravage were enemies despite all being PREDACONS. They were enemies of MEGATRON, they had their own goals that didn't align with Megatron's goals. It just means she's not loyal to HIM but not that she isn't a Predacon.

But she still was a Predacon herself hence she was working both sides.

It's very similar to Ravage. He was working with the Maximals when he first showed up but he never was a Maximal. He was a Decepticon/Predacon. Regardless of which side he was working with his allegiance never changed. He was sent by the Tripredacus Council to capture Megatron who was considered a rogue Predacon but they were both on the same side... the PREDACON side. Ravage only joined Megatron after seeing a message from the original Megatron but he didn't change allegiance because he was already a Predacon. Before he joined Megatron he wasn't a Maximal, they worked together only because their goals happen to align at the time but their factions never did.

Same thing with Blackarachnia. She was working with the Maximals but her faction was still Predacon. She was not a Maximal yet. She was not on their side just like Ravage was never on their side. Working together doesn't automatically mean their factions have changed. Until she actually becomes a Maximal she has not joined the Maximals. As long as she continues to identify as a Predacon she is a Predacon.

So why are so confused about it?

I have clarified exactly what I mean multiple times. How much more clear can I get than this.

Maximal = Maximal

Predacon = Predacon

THAT'S IT!

There is no Maximal = Predacon or Predacon = Maximal. That's nonsense. You're the one who needs to clarify what you mean because I literally have no clue how or why you came to this conclusion and why you seem incapable of understanding self explanatory concepts.

Silverbolt wanted Blackarachnia to join the MAXIMALS until she actually officially becomes a MAXIMAL that goal has not been reached. There is no moving the goal posts. The goal was always for MAXIMAL.

Working with the Maximals while still identifying as Predacon is not reaching the MAXIMAL goal. She's still a PREDACON.

You say that Quickstrike was never reprogrammed as a PREDACON but he clearly has PREDACON faction symbols and a PREDACON transformation code which mean he clearly HAS been reprogrammed as a PREDACON. If he were still a MAXIMAL his insignias and transformation code would still be MAXIMAL. How can he have PREDACON programming without being reprogrammed?

 

The goalposts have been shifted and the conversation needlessly complicated. I withdraw.

 

So, back to the love triangle...

 

The goal was for Blackarachnia to join the Maximals. That does not happen until she removes the Predacon shell program and upgrades to her TM2 body in the episode "Crossing the Rubicon" so how was the goal post moved?

I agree, but you're the one making it needlessly complicated. It's really quite simple.



This Blackarchnia was a Predacon, she was ALWAYS a Predacon, she never joined the Maximals.



This Blackarachnia is a screen shot from the first time she actually was a Maximal.

I don't understand how the goal posts could have moved when the original goal hadn't even been hit yet. The idea of moving the goal posts doesn't even make sense.

By your reasoning Blackarachnia joined the Maximals in "Optimal Situation". Which would mean she was already reprogrammed in that episode and then they for some reason continued to want her to do something she already did? That's not moving the goal posts, that would be a continuity error except that never happens. All she did in that episode was work with the Maximals as a Predacon she did not join the Maximals.

She isn't a Maximal until 8 episodes later. That's when she actually joins the team officially. That's when the original goal has been achieved. Not before.

It's needlessly complicated because this whole thing about moving the goal posts from joining the Maximals to joining the Maximals doesn't make any sense and you haven't even attempted to explain what the heck you're talking about. How can you move the goal posts if it's still the same goal? How can she become a Maximal a full 8 episodes before she actually becomes a Maximal when she's actually still a Predacon?

So yeah... unless you can explain what the heck you're even talking about... I'm out too.

 

So much wasted bandwidth...