What if Hasbro made 3rd Party Stuff?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Mitch FIN Keith, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. Cha Chi

    Cha Chi Minimondomayhem

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    Yeah, the challenge Hasbro seem to have unlike any other third-party or whatever is distribution. To think they have create a line/wave of toys, have them made, and then get them spread all over the world to be sold in numerous shops at the same time(i said the world but obviously not). Unlike third-party who produce a fraction and send a bunch here and a bunch there and you more than likely order them... It's a big difference, but us being the fans/collectors we are appreciate both right.

    It would be cool if Hasbro did smaller line/specialist stuff but it would be such small peanuts for Hasbro. Saying that, actually it's probably what many of us in the UK think the MP line is. hahaha
     
  2. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    Just because a lie is repeted over and over it doesn't make it true. In fact, cost & retail arrangements work in favor for Hasbro as they allready have that infrastructure set up. The audience (fans) for these toys are being targeted repetedly - it's the same audience that they targeted with Runabout & Runamuck just a couple of months back, and who they are targeting the masterpiece line at and it is who they target with convention exclusives.

    That only leaves safety regulations, which is the only real valid point, but let's face it - this really only means they can't use lead paint and need to round of sharp edges. I doubt that any of the popular third party releases wouldn't have passed safety regulations had they just done that.

    So let's not kid ourselves - with minor tweeks, they could have released these things, but they made the decision to sell mudflaps, skids & Bumblebee version #120 instead, because they thought that would sell better.
     
  3. Lt. Faceless

    Lt. Faceless I'm a puppet

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    That would force hasbro to cater to us G1ers.People hate on us,but we carry the line with these 3rd party toys.Hasbro can't sell to just us,that have to target the kids.I can get 3rd party with little trouble,i can't even get a new release from hasbro.

    Then again,i'm paronoid.Hasbro could be not completeing classic updatedes to string us along.Any person with a complete line isn't a good thing for hasbro.If i could get a updated G1 cast,i think i could walk away from transformers(toys anyway).Hasbro can't have that.
     
  4. ZacWilliam

    ZacWilliam Well-Known Member

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    Conversely, because you don't like something doesn't make it false.

    Hasbro's cost and retail arrangements do not work In favor of them making 3rd party type toys. Toys that have limited kid appeal and high cost collector targeting, that are basically non-mass market products are not what they do and not what they are set up to do.

    The Runamuck and Runabout example are not at all similar. Fun Pub/Botcon product repaints/remolds are not the same thing as 3rd party toys in any applicable way. And the Masterpiece line might be vaguely parallel if not for the fact that they are produced with TakTom as the primary mover, US being limited release of existing molds only when a retailer will take it as an exclusive.

    Also, and this is the primary thing to remember, that they aim a product at us occasionally, when it's easy and manageable, does not negate the fact that they are a primarily a mass market children's toy toy company and that is what they are primarily set up to do and what they WANT to do. If Hasbro made the 3rd party toys they would be what Generations is, because that is the type of product that Hasbro is in business to make.

    Dude, do you know anything about this, because modern safety regs are very strict and go WAY beyond pointyness and lead paint.


    TO LITTLE KIDS. To finish your sentence with a bit of reality. Because thats who they want to sell to, not you.


    -ZacWilliam, it's fine to wish they were a company that existed to make limited appeal collector merch but don't pretend thats the same thing as making mass market kids toys.
     
  5. RazorclawX

    RazorclawX Campaign Oracle

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    Let's not kid ourselves-- how many kids want Constructicon Devastator in the fashion of G1? Or even Ultra Magnus in the style of the City Commander? Those are the kind of things that appeal to the older people.

    I'm more surprised Hasbro can make decent bank selling a Generations line to do it over and over-- or even War for/Fall of Cybertron, which directly appeals to fans of the video games. I can't imagine kids getting excited to buy figures like Darkmount or Sky Shadow who don't even have modern media behind them.
     
  6. Kraken

    Kraken Is a vegiesaurus, Lex. Veteran

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    They'd be part of the Masterpiece line, would still be hideously expensive, and would have worse distribution.
     
  7. Foster

    Foster Haslab Victory Saber Backer #3 Veteran

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    Right. The Masterpiece line is as close as they can ever get.
     
  8. s_cren

    s_cren Banned

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    One thing I've wandered with the classics stuff is why choose black shadow and and dark mount for example instead of more prominent characters for classics lines, you'd think the more obscure characters the the third parties would do , I'm glad hasbro does do it I'm just not sure why
     
  9. s_cren

    s_cren Banned

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    And when I was a little kid part of when I got a figure was whether I thought it looked "cool" when I saw the toy on the shelf so maybe kids think some like dark mount looked cool and bought it, just a thought
     
  10. Bossguy

    Bossguy Banned

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    Kids like em' because they're cool.
     
  11. JukeOutlander

    JukeOutlander Combat Antihero

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    If Hasbro made a third party figure? It'd come with a Mechtech weapon.
     
  12. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    Before I begin, I think we need to straighten some things out here. I think we have a different opinion about what third party toys is.

    I think that they are essentially toys that are picking up Hasbros slack - I see them as toys made by amatuers compared to Hasbros standards that fill the gaps of the classics lines, replace toys in those lines that that were poorly designed (combiners, ratchet, ironhide, megatron, springer) or enhances the toys that were released (upgrade kits and and accessories) that are sold at a much higher price, not because they are meant to be high end toys, but because of a higher production cost.

    I could be wrong about this, and if I am then please correct me. You seem to think that they are exlusive high end toys because of their pricepoint, that they are toys that can only appeal to die hard tf fans and that their limited production run is part of them being exclusive toys, ie if Hasbro made them it should still only be 2000 units or something like that produced.

    The difference being that I embrace what you so strongly advocate against, which is that they would be like the generation line. I see them as toys that could fit in with the generations (or MP, or whatever toyline they are designed to fit in with) line and as such toys that are fit for mass marketing, just like the generation toys were.

    With that said, here is my rebuttal - I appologise in advance if I come off as a bit harsh, but you were very antagonistic towards me, so I may respond in kind.

    I agree - it is the reasons as stated point for point in my previous post that makes it false, not my approval or disapproval.

    If it has such limited kid appeal then how come classics (which most of the third party stuff is made to fit in with) was so successful that it got not only a second line in Universe 2.0, a third line in RTS but a fourth line in Generations, and had the retailers asking for more? All of these lack the kid appeal that you talk about.

    If they could mass market these they would, they are not limited runs by choice - The high cost comes from them NOT having the resources that Hasbro does, it is because they can only do limited runs that they are this expensive, surely you must realize this?

    *looks in his box of misb third party stuff*
    *sees Heroic Duo Custom Kit, Kup Head Kit Set, Upgrade Kit for Classics Bumblebee & Cliffjumper, Goldbug upgrade kit*

    No, you're right - a limited run of something that targets the classics fans that has a new headsculpt is totally different from...a limited run of something that targets the classics fans that has a new headsculpt.

    (sarcasm,in case it wasn't obvious) Honestly, what exactly is it that makes it so vastly different in your eyes? Hell, if you go outside of botcon into things like TFCon we have even had third party toys be convention exclusives.

    That's grasping at straws and you know it - Retailers wouldn't pick these up if they weren't selling like hot cakes.

    OK...so...Hasbro can't make third party stuff because then it would be like what Generations is - I'm at a loss for words here...I would like to post a picture of a certain black and white dog with a certain facial expression asking a very fitting question, but it'd be against the rules so I won't.

    Generations if anything is proof that they can produce third party stuff.

    As a matter of fact I do, I cincerly doubt that you do however as you seem to think that it is some magical thing that only Hasbro can adhere to. By all means, do enlighten us - which safety regulations does the most popular third party toys like City commander violate beyond paint apps and sharp edges?

    OK, so let's make this perfectly clear - kids have absolutely no clue as to what toys were made 30 years ago, and the fact that they were made in no possible way or stretch of the imagination negates the classics design or concept from being popular with kids today.

    It is 100% possible to make toys that appeal to both collectors and kids, so let's just stop pretending that one can't possibly appeal to the other, because that is horseshit.

    They can appeal to both - classics, universe 2.0, Generations and RTS showed that - WITHOUT ANY MASS PROMOTION TARGETING KIDS. If they had promoted these lines as they do prime for example then kids would have drooled Homer Simpson style at the very thought of them - there isn't a 9 year old on the planet that would go "pffft, please - I don't want this, Hasbro made a far inferior version of this 21 years before I was born. Do they really expect boys to like giant combining robots anyways?"
     
  13. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    The real "advantage" 3rd Party groups have over Hasbro is that they don't have to kowtow to Wal-Mart, and they're not restricted to any hard budgets.

    The designers at Hasbro and TakaraTomy could absolutely match and trounce any product ever produced by the numerous third party outfits, if given completely free reign.

    But once you work the mass-retail model into the equation, then you've got to start thinking profit margins, price-points, case-assortments, and a whole whack of other things. And suddenly, lofty dreams start to look completely nonviable.

    Fans get too caught up in their pattern of wanting more and more, without understanding how the logistics behind all of these corporate decisions stack up.

    To use an analogy, Hasbro vs. 3P is like a game of The Nationals vs. The Harlem Globetrotters. The Nationals play by-the-book basketball, while the Globetrotters laugh in the face of the rules for the sake of dazzling their audience, and to the audience, of course they're the winners.

    But take a step back and think about that setup. By-the-book basketball can get you into the NBA, the big leagues. Big money, big contracts, big endorsement deals. Trick shots, joke balls, and blatant rules violations, while a hit with the audience, relegates you to lower-tier sideshow status. That's not saying that there's no success in that, but we're talking very different venues here.

    And that's what we've got here. Hasbro plays by the rules, works with the rule-makers, and is a multi-million dollar company as a result. Sure, the majority of their output rarely dazzles the audience, but it doesn't have to be. The key to winning games is in the basics, not in the showmanship. The third parties get to play sideshow. They can dazzle the audiences all they want, but that doesn't play well with the guys that pay the big bucks.
     
  14. unicronic

    unicronic Well-Known Member

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    But it only creates a genuine disadvantage as the retail prices of these 3rd party figures are sometimes insane.

    On the other hand there is no good way for Hasbro to sell me on why official figure price go up and quality drops.
     
  15. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    The thing that I think distinguishes Hasbro from Third Party is, even despite all what the above poster said about having to work with mass retailers, how Third Parties are making what I'd like to call OBVIOUS moves while Hasbro, even when given somewhat free rein, makes completely questionable ones more often than not.

    An example, perhaps the best example recently, is Bruticus. They seemed to have decided, from the start to make all four limbs interchangable. The result was a heavily compromised monkey monster that doesn't look good and isn't terribly fun (has limb interchangability ever been a truly fun feature?). And then, they chose its paint job so that its more "kid friendly" despite already having an assortment filled with non-four-color characters, and on top of that, the most "offensive" recolors, Vortex and Onslaught, had "loud" colors replaced with "loud" colors and subtle colors replaced with subtle respectively for a net accomplishment of ugly.

    I remember being 10 years old. It pissed me off that my Ninja Turtles didn't look like the ones I saw on movie and TV. That's why I used the movie ones. I'm sure many kids are the same.

    Or what about, making a Voyager Scale FoC Soundwave - a design nobody really cares for, over FoC Megatron, an Optimus worth a damn, or heck even Shockwave. Is soundwave really more sellable than either of those 3?

    Or what about releasing RotF Leader Prime in his Buster Prime paint job... even the Wing Optimus Prime that just came out is the same old mass market one... but at a $100 price point. Consdering how much that has been used, I have a hard time believing that the cost-to-make it set the price.

    It's decisions like these that make me favor 3rd party... its Hasbro going LEFT when going RIGHT seems so obvious. Hasbro doesn't straight up have to make every figure the Neo-G1 we always wanted (which is basically what THird Party is) but like... why new a Mudflap and Skidz DoTM mold, but I have to pay $50 for 3rd Party Brawn and Cosmos.
     
  16. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    I'm sorry, how much does the 3P upgrade cost? How much does FOC Bruticus cost? They're like, the same, right?
    Stop comparing things that aren't comparable.


    A great, true post. I'm sure many in this thread will ignore it though.
     
  17. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more. They could do a much better job at it, their misses are few and far apart when it comes to actual design quality.

    I think the biggest shame here lies in the fact that they don't task their designers to create all these figures that have left gaps in classics collections - I'm sure that if they were tasked with doing just that that we would have way better toys than what 3p produces at a fraction of the cost.

    Then there are of course a few things that just feels as if they have been micromanaged in there and ruined - paint jobs for example.

    Historically Hasbros paint jobs have been very sub par when compared with Takara releases (generations was actually an exception to the rule) And I doubt that painting it in one color over another or painting the same paint in a different spot is really something that can be blamed on costs or any other limitations.

    love Hasbro or hate them, but you have to admit that they have been making quite a few of decisions about what to release and what not to release.
     
  18. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    I almost pissed my pants on that one. Nobody is forcing you to buy that shit.



    Also, one day I will see the lower end of the fandom realize that they are not the target demographic, and that every time they WERE the target demographic, the line failed.
     
  19. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we are not the target demographic, but could you please refer to which lines that failed? Not doubting you, just curious as I seem to recollect most lines being extremely successful (gen 2 & Machine wars are the only ones I can think of that missed their mark of the top of my head)
     
  20. Scaleface

    Scaleface Well-Known Member

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    Please take a moment and realize you read his intention wrong. He mean he was FORCED to buy something. You both know that. He said he was forced to pay $50 if he wanted a classic Brawn or Cosmos toy, because he had to go to a company like iGear. Hasbro is busy making new molds for Skids and Mudflap, while ignoring obvious toys.