What happened offscreen on Cybertron in the G1 cartoon?

Discussion in 'Transformers Cyberverse and Cartoon Discussion' started by Distant1, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    In the Ultimate Doom episode Optimus reluctantly allows Megatron to move Cybertron into Earth's orbit because of Autobots left on Cybertron. In Child's Play episode Chip contacts the Autobots on Cybertron to see if they had seen the missing Autobots.

    For this to happen I assume that the Autobots must have had some control of a decent portion of Cybertron, but maybe still lost Iacon.

    However, in the Search for Alpha Trion episode the Fembots fuel supplies at critically low levels. For this to happen, I assume that the rest of the Autobot forces must have had to retreat from Cybertron (and blocked from going to Earth) and Alpha Trion must have got isolated on Cybertron.

    With the Autobots defeating Shockwave and Starscream in the Alpha Trion episode, the Autobots must have got back some control of Cybertron as Alpha Trion has a new base and Omega Supreme is able to land without being attacked on Cybertron in Key to Vector Sigma and the War Dawn episodes.

    Fast forward to 2005 and the Autobots have been banished from Cybertron.

    Is this how you see events happening on Cybertron, or do you have a different version of events (either way, please let me know)?
     
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  2. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Short answer I really don’t think things went the think it

    I think by the time they awoke in 84 the Autobots didn’t control much at all, and they continued to loose ground leading to the take over we see evidence of in the film
     
  3. TheWarPathGuy

    TheWarPathGuy The Not-So-Spectacular Spider-Man

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    Shockwave bored out of his mind for 4 million years
     
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  4. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Came to think of it, I think Iacon fell with the retconned Decepticon attack in Search for Alpha Trion.

    I also think any surviving Autobots fled Iacon and moved to another Autobot base. Maybe the Autobots had a whole series of tunnels between bases or a subway system to help avoid Decepticon air attack

    I am not sure how effective Shockwave was as a leader, my feeling is that maybe the Decepticons just held rather than advanced their lines. When Megatron is reactivated this gives Shockwave more motivation and perhaps firepower to destroy/evict the remaining Autobots from Cybertron.

    Digressing a bit, my take on why Optimus and Shockwave thought that the Fembots were dead is that they were de-activated and Punch/CounterPunch was partly responsible for disposing of their corpses, but he never finished them off and left them in a condition which they could be re-activated. Punch/CounterPunch informed Alpha Trion of this sometime in 1985 and the Fembots were restored.

    If the Search for Alpha Trion was revised, I think it would be good if other Autobots like Springer, Kup, etc were called back to Cybertron to give extra protection. Or by that stage maybe most of the generics seekers had been killed in battle and Optimus thought that the Fembots and Alpha Trion were safe enough if the only permanent Decepticon inhabitants were Shockwave and Sentinels (maybe some other the generic seekers were occupying other planets at the time). Maybe this is why Omega Supreme landed safely in War Dawn and the Key to Vector Sigma.

    If some fill-in episodes before were made (set before the 1986 movie), I would love to have seen what happened to the generic seekers depicted in Divide and Conquer as well as the Ultimate Doom.

    I think he had a hunt for energy, as witnessed in the design of the space-bridge and had to keep Autobot forces at bay.

    I also wonder if he faced any leadership challenges during the 4M year gap.
     
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  5. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    retcon attack in the search for Alpha Trion?

    May I ask what you mean?

    The way I see it, Iacon pretty much fell before the autobots left cybertron
    I can see that
    interesting
    All very interesting
     
  6. pilot00

    pilot00 Well-Known Member

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    There is no concrete evidence to suggest much, but you can make some logical conclusions by brainstroming the state of affairs:

    Cybertron between the Ark launch and the reawakening of 84 was already under the boot heel of Decepticon occupation and was running out of energy. Remember when Wheeljack and Bee found the energy conductors had to move through a Decepticon blockade to reach Iacon. That leads me to believe that the planet was more or less a ruined warzone under Decepticon control.

    Furthermore we know from Starscreams brigade and other episodes, that Shockwave was running patrols and there were even still security details on Cybertron (The rainmakers for example). From the files of Teletraan2 we know that the Autobots at some point and (judging from Defcon in season two) had scattered across the galaxy. Optimus though in ultimate doom was worried about his friends left behind and that the Arc crews was a hand picked crew of crackshots and experts. Further more the only logical appearance between the two seasons to introduce the new bots would be either through spacebridge (cons) or shuttle to arrive to earth (Autobots). And then you have AlphaTrion, the female Autobots and the narrators quote "Fully conquered their homeplanet of Cybertron".


    He means the flashback of Optimus, where he left Elita-1 and boarded the Arc prepping for launch amidst (the presumed) final Decepticon push.

    If you take all these into account then my belief is the Autobots simply went underground waging a shadow war at Shockwave, while those able to traverse the universe did so, such as Skylinx in hopes perhaps to find more of their kin in the scattered colonies or energy. When Megatron finally solved his energy problems somehow, he simply returned to the planet, seemingly abandoning earth, evicting the Autobots for good and restoring the infrastructure completely. I believe it was during these times that Autobot city was build and Cybertron restored, it makes sense: The Autobots were too busy building the City in order to accommodate their refugees in order to hamper Megatrons plans for restoring the planet, and likewise Megatron was too busy with the reconstruction in order to stop the Autobots from building their city.

    As to why nobody fired at Omega: Either Cybertrons Defense network was not completely operable or the defences in these quadrant were perhaps powered down/trashed/beyond Shockwaves control. Even with energy runs from Megatron, Cybertron remained a ruin for the most part, in fact only under Decepticon control in 2005 it was completely restored and fully functional. The Autobots durring their own control of the planet were unable to bring it back in the same state after Unicrons attack.
     
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  7. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, I had wondered about this. My thoughts were that the welcoming committee was situated on Autobot controlled territory, but it would make sense if the bridge was a border so to speak. Like I posted before it would make sense for the Autobots to have a subterranean transport system to negate the effectiveness of Decepticons in the air. To paraphrase Thundercracker 'they have gone underground, we will never catch them now'.

    I wish this period of expansion was covered more in the original cartoon. I know some expansion was for Transformers to flee Cybertron (Autobots not prepared to fight and Constructicons trying to escape the wrath of Omega Supreme, etc.)

    But the colonization interests me. I imagine some was done in peacetime but most would be done when both teams energy supplies were dwindling. As such, I like to think that SkyLynx, Kup, Springer, etc. were doing something helpful to the Autobot cause and not just residing on a foreign planet for a better quality of life, while their comrades on Cybertron were just about starving.

    Just my imagination, but I like to think where Omega lands, is an undesirable place from your average Decepticon point of view. This may be the last remaining piece of Autobot terriortary or it is a kind of no-man's land, inhabited by Autobots, disenchanted Decepticons who are easy to bribe and maybe some un-aligned military hardware. Like you say any Decepticon defense equipment is thrashed fairly quickly. Shockwave's troops are fearful of Sniper attacks in these areas. To me, this is the safest area for Autobots to land.
     
  8. hendrijr

    hendrijr Well-Known Member

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    I’ve always wondered what happened to the fembots and would love to see a bridge series between season 2 and the movie. Dreamwave was kind of doing that with the comics when they went under. Id love to see Cybertron conquered, moon base 1 and 2 creation, the building of Autobot City, where season 3 guys were, etc. could also tie up many loose ends like where was Omega and the combiners during the movie? Imagine a season 2.5 followed by a special edition of the movie with discarded storyboard scenes animated into it, and then a feature length coda to the movie showing the autobots picking up the pieces, having funerals, rebuilding Cybertron and autobot city.
     
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  9. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I would love that.
     
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  10. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I think an episode set after Triple Takeover would be pretty interesting (is not long after the Child's Play episode). Basically, the Triple Changers and the Constructions have to try and get back into Megatron good books, by killing/evicting the remaining Autobots from Cybertron.

    As Soundwave was not in the Triple Takeover episode, at the time of the attempted takeover, he for me would have been on Cybertron and Reflector, surveying Cybertron for Autobot activity.

    IMO, Ravage would be good sniffing out Autobots and Sentinels would draw Autobot fire.
     
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  11. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    The use of the word often (not always) denotes a “re-writing” of events

    I point that out because most people believe that the scene in question re-writes what we saw in mtmte pt1,

    But I always felt that was only 1 interpretation, to me that may not have been the launch of the Ark that brought them to earth but some earlier mission
     
  12. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I do not think it could have been an earlier mission as then Optimus would have returned to Cybertron over 4M years ago and they would have rebuilt Iacon. Also, if it had been an earlier mission, then Optimus would more likely have known what happened to the Fembots.

    Just thinking more about what could have happened off camera in the original series. Sorry if I am using this webpage too much as a sounding board.

    I am thinking that maybe Whirl and Roadbuster were among the Series 2 Autobots that were revived (because the catalog shows them having style alt-modes) along with the likes of Blaster and Perceptor (to be consistent with the Cybertonium depletion raised in Desertion of the Dinobots) but mabye Whirl and Roadbuster along with Skyfire were sent to Cybertron to assist the remaining Autobot forces there(I would have Ultra Magnus, Impactor, Top Spin, Twin Twist and some more) before Megatron's Master Plan (as Skyfire was not in that episode and nor was Omega Supreme who I assume came to earth just after Megatron's Master Plan).

    Skyfire is able to rescue and transport Ultra Magus and one two others to another planet (Astrotrain blocks off the path to Earth). The Decepticons think that Alpha Trion maybe got away aboard SkyFire but are not convinced. The Decepticons have more important things to then just find one or two remaining Autobots, and maybe Shockwave uses weak security of energon cubes to try and catch any remaining Autobots on Cybertron.

    Somewhere down the line, Ultra Magnus and the Autobot mini-cons (Outback, Pipes, etc.) get badly damaged and rebuilt as earth style vehicles as do the Battlechargers.
     
  13. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    And why do you assume any of that?

    We have no idea what kind of mission it could have been, if they were successfu or failed, if they could have rebuilt iocon or just why they felt all the females were Dead

    Hypothetically speaking, if it was let’s say, a military mission, it could explain the fighting at launch

    And if Elita was badly injured, her troops may have taken her far underground for repairs and hiding

    Which could explain both sides thinking the females were extinct

    Don’t be sorry I’m enjoying it.
    Mini-bots

    The rest sounds good
     
  14. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    I think it easier to explain that the flash back is the ret-conned scene of the departure for Earth. That is not to say it is.

    The disappearance of the Fembots is quite puzzling. It makes me wonder why nobody ever mentioned to Optimus Prime the condition of the Fembots assuming Optimus had up to date information about the condition of the Autobot resistance (given his statement/actions in the Ultimate Doom).

    Cool, hope some TV executive is also enjoying it.

    Right they are Autobots.

    Thanks

    Going back a bit.

    In my head that after the Ark left 4M years ago. When no news was heard from the Autobots on board the Ark. Cosmos, along with another Autobot called Random - he is just made up (I also considered Outback) was sent to try and find the Ark.

    The Decepticons saw Cosmos leave and a Decepticon ship with 4 seekers pursued Cosmos. They got to an organic planet (not earth) but with swampland. The seekers confronted the two Autobots but Devcon (was aware of the Decepticons and followed them) the 4 seekers and those 4 seekers were shot down and presumed dead in the swampland. But not before the Decepticons had a planted a tracker of some sorts on Cosmos.

    For years the Autobots used this planet as a fuel source. One day, though the Storm Seekers were sent to this planet. When they got there, they were overpowered initially by the Autobots, however the 4 seekers by time had morphed into Deluxe Insecticons, and they then shot down the Autobots.

    Thus, I like to think that the Insecticons scene in Five Faces of Darkness should have been Deluxe Insecticons and maybe just Shrapnel is the only surviving plain Insecticon.

    Back to 1985.

    Maybe Skyfire took the Autobots to the home planet of the Tlalakans (from the Sea Change ) episode.

    At this time, Springer, Kup, Blur, Arcee and Sky Lynx are another Autobot controlled planet that is used to supply the Autobots on Cybertron with energon.
     
  15. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    I can see why you would feel that but ....
    The disappearance of the Fembots is quite puzzling. It makes me wonder why nobody ever mentioned to Optimus Prime the condition of the Fembots assuming Optimus had up to date information about the condition of the Autobot resistance (given his statement/actions in the Ultimate Doom).[/quote]....this is why it’s eadier for me to think it’s an earlier mission

    The mission may have taken some time, months to years or longer, Elita looking destroyed before launch, if they all went into hiding its possible by the time optimus returned he could have been given misinformation
    hopefully
    One issue
    Desertion of the dinobots established that Cosmos was exposed to earths Atmosphere as long as optimus and the others

    Which strongly indicates he was a member the the arks original crew

    Like the rest, but why do you feel Sharpnell is the only surviving regular ?

    Considering they clone they could all have survived or died, wouldn’t make any difference
     
  16. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    ....this is why it’s eadier for me to think it’s an earlier mission

    The mission may have taken some time, months to years or longer, Elita looking destroyed before launch, if they all went into hiding its possible by the time optimus returned he could have been given misinformation[/QUOTE]

    Good points. The Fembots to go into hiding for 4M+ years is one good disappearing act.

    One issue
    Desertion of the dinobots established that Cosmos was exposed to earths Atmosphere as long as optimus and the others

    Cosmos, is not scene on Earth in that episode, as far as I recall. But interestingly, there is a scene when Mirage (I think) says that everything was better on Cybertron (then there is a shot with a weird looking space travelling transformer who transforms). It is hard to know who it actually is.

    Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1 - Transformers Wiki

    TF wiki, credits Cosmos first appearance in the Megatron Master Plan. I know sequencing was a bit odd in this show, especially toward the end of Series 2.

    From what I gather Skids, Cosmos and Omega Supreme all joined the show significantly after the Dinobot Island episode.

    In my fan fiction, Skid was aboard the Ark but then went aboard the Nemesis where he was shot out of the Nemesis and thus why he was separated from Blaster, Percepter, etc.

    I am also thinking that Octane may have also been forcibly evicted from the Nemesis and that is why he appeared much later than Thrust and the others.

    From memory, it was Shrapnel who was alongside of Scavenger in the Daniel scene in the movie.

    Not a big deal as the Insecticons were not seen much in S3
     
  17. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    ha


    I know
    But desertion of the Dinobots establishments that Everton suffering from the loss of cybertonium was exposed to earths At this speaker for the same period of time

    So that means guys like cosmos and preceptor were somewhere off screen or still damaged somewhere in the ship
    i think I remember that

    He was
    He also became a sweep

    Like I said they are clones

    And let’s not forget Starscresms coronation

    Thunder cracker,Skywarp and the insecticons were all at the party when Galvatron showed up

    upload_2019-3-15_20-52-0.jpeg
     
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  18. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    But Everton were doing well in the 80s (sorry for the English Football joke).

    In all seriousness, I cannot see that Cosmos was on earth during that period. I think his entry to earth is much like Omega's but without the resentment.

    The Constructicons seem to be doing alright. I assume where they were in space, they were not affected by the loss of Cybertonium as much as transformers on earth. Or on their way to Earth, the Constructicons spent some time on Cybertron.

    Really wish they fixed the animation especially with generic seekers.

    Interesting that Shockwave is towards the back.
     
  19. Primeultra

    Primeultra Well-Known Member

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    Don’t worry there I don’t even get American football jokes
    If that’s how u feel that’s fine, but like I said, the episode states otherwise
    And they should be
    They weren’t exposed to earths Atmosphere for millions of years

    Like I said “desertion “establishes that everyone affected by the lack of cybertonium had been on earth for millions of years

    It was exposure to earths atmosphere that caused the depletion of Cybertonium
    that would be nice
    Likewise because he did not support starscream
     
  20. Distant1

    Distant1 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious (and sorry if I have forgotten), but do you have an explanation as to how the Constructicons came to know that Megatron was on earth?

    In my head, I like to think that the Constructicons attack an Autobot settlement on an alien planet. The Constructicons merge into Devastator and easily defeat the Autobots, but they realise that one Autobot is sending an SOS message to Cybertron. By that time the Constructicons are back in their individual modules and they hear the voice from Cybertron (on hearing their description) say that an Autobot like Omega Supreme could help.

    The Constructicons interrogate the surviving Autobot. The Autobots provides the Constructicons with a rundown of what happened over the last few millions of years. The Constructicons head back to Cybertron.

    So as far as we know it is only Earth's atmosphere that causes Cybertronium depletion (otherwise there could be profitable Cybertonium trade).

    In a way showing that he was very loyal to Megatron. I guess more interesting is that Soundwave is closer to the front and the Coneheads seem to be fairly big supporters of Starscream (maybe loyal support for another military jet).