War For Cybertron: Earthrise Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Vector Oracle, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. Iruini

    Iruini Some shitposter

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    eh...I disagree, writting a compelling character is what makes a good character. I mean who cared about chromedome, rewind, swerve, tailgate, trailbreaker, or pipes before mtmte, nightbeat became some what of a decent character thanks to both the marvel and idw comics. just like, aren't most 84/85 guys just a sea of red white yellow and green? I feel like everyone deserves an update, not just a one and done though. Make fucking...I dunno brunt an A lister con? he's fucking great I'd buy any version of brunt. cyberverse brunt, earth brunt any brunt. I dunno I just need more post 87 guys
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  2. Zylly103

    Zylly103 Well-Known Member

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    Trailbreaker had the advantage of being voiced by Frank Welker, who was already probably at least five guys in any given episode, so it was easy to drop him into a script. Add in a highly useful special ability, and it's easy to see how he got a lot of screen time.
     
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  3. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

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    I 100% agree! Man I would love new WFC Bludgeon, the old one is getting long in the tooth, but I would want it based on IDW or Cyberverse. I worry a pretender shell may may hurt it, on less it was like a Diaclone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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  4. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

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    It’s not ENOUGH but I want the whole package when it comes to a shelf otherwise reserved for the originals.

    I have some cool late G1 guys fleshing our Galvatron’s minions.

    But if I’m looking at retro-inserting someone as the peer of Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave, I want them to measure up BOTH as characters who have great narrative associations and as visually distinct characters who are halfway at home in an all Diaclone refugee display.

    I like Gerard Way and Jack White as musicians but I wouldn’t photoshop them in with the Beatles to fill out a crowd image.

    For me, it’s a very certain kind of character I’d accept being retroinserted into my mental image of Season 1 of the cartoon.
     
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  5. Codeveronicaxxx

    Codeveronicaxxx Goddomasuta member

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    I mean the beetles and modern artists didn't live in the same time but other transformers were still alive when S01 was taking place.
     
  6. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

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    While I agree that requires three things; a good story, for that story medium to have massive exposure (like a movie), and longevity of said character’s exposure. That is a lot of to gets that character in the main team to things get a repeated figures. Drift is the only character that comes to mind.
     
  7. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    I'm am NOT nitpicking, I am simply stating facts here...while you keep being condescending, you appear to have a serious narcissist complex.

    Your sources are NOT sources, they are nothing more than "magazine" articles.

    I will not waste my time to dismantle each of your "sources" but in regards to what I stated, that fans have a recognized impact, you dug yourself deeper and appear to now going with platitudes and highly defensive red herrings in your retort.

    What you "provided" was:

    1. NY Times Article / Classic Toys Redesigned to Traverse Generations

      Quote: "The concept — robots disguised as everyday objects — was originally aimed at 5-year-old boys. But as those boys have grown up and had children and even grandchildren, Hasbro has expanded the brand into other media and added new toy lines to appeal to everyone from toddlers to adults."

      All numbers here are sales figure, and no statistics in relation to age groups of the purchasers. Not only that, but all the numbers are mixed with all of Hasbro brand products and doesn't single out Transformers in an informative way. "Hasbro recorded $960 million in sales from products related to Transformers and Beyblade" and the rest of the numbers suffer from the same nuances of lacks of clarity.

    2. SDCC Warden SDCC 2018 interview (there are a dozen I am not going to waste the time to re-listen and find it. All I know is it is an interview about why Sideswipe looks like a future earth car and not a box. He states that kids buy the majority of generations toys.

      It's an interview, you aren't providing anything here in regards to actual numbers about documented purchases according to age group.
    3. Second set of references multi generation approach to the Hasbro brands
      This is a pointless statement.

    4. Forbes article 35 Years On, 'Transformers' Employs Diverse Toy Strategy

      Quote: "Hasbro is hoping to ensure even further longevity by targeting different variations of the characters to different audiences. A recent mailer of samples demonstrates their continued commitment to targeting all ages and types of fans, from longtime collectors to casual buyers who may not know their Optimus Prime from Megatron."

      I see no reference to children, but to various audience, and again, collectors are mentioned, which, I'll remind you again, is my point.
    5. Hasbro Brand strategy after Bumblebee movie success. Again like the SDCC interviews I know this was from a Hasbro investors meeting regarding generation brand approach and hooking little kids with Rescue bots and eventually graduating them to Generations. I am not going to look for it because it would involve going through multiple corporate reports.

      That was in that first article you linked to, so you're spewing stuff and links and don't even read/check what you're providing to "support" you?
    So then you end with So here are my sources. Now where are yours? I see some very well written editorials (opinions), but no sources.

    Your "sources" have absolutely nothing worthwhile. I asked you for the figures of sales according to age demographics, and you provided none.

    My statement is very simple but appears to be above and beyond your understanding: it is simply that fans/collectors do have a recognizable impact on the sales in response of your "absolute" that sales are only from (for) children and that fans/collectors have no impact on sales (your statement: but to treat us like we are the main audience and not what we are; a smaller (important and dedicated) portion of the audience is a bit mis guided.)

    I asked you to provide factual proof of sales by age demographics and you failed to do this and have only written cyclical arguments with links that offer none of the information requested.

    In response to your request for "proof/source", first, YOU stated your absolute statement, I am asking you to prove it and you have not, I do not have any need to provide any proof as you deem required, but as a whole, it's simple, all the last ten+ years of figures have evolved tremendously in response to the feedback from "buyers (aka fanbase/collectors... example? take Unicron and all the Masterpiece series) and your very articles state as such, that Hasbro has done as such in response to the demographics, aka the adult fanbase/collectors.

    I can see that you simply enjoy arguments for the sake of arguing so I'll end this now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  8. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

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    What you’re asking for is something unreasonable to ask for. This isn’t a debate that warrants hours of research. Hasbro likely would never release those kinds of hard figures and would pressure anyone who did release them to take them down.

    The closest I can recall is an informal statement Warden was attributed to saying to a fan at a con to the effect that (and I honestly can’t recall which) either a bit more than half of Generations buyers are over 18 or a bit under half are over 18. Whichever way it went, the takeaway was that neither group can be discounted and both are big enough that they have to be catered to, ideally both at once.

    It’s largely irrelevant as there are both kids and adults who:

    - Only want characters they don’t have.
    - Only collect one character over and over.
    - Only pay attention to less well known characters when a version of a well known character gets their attention first.
    - Impulse buy at retail.
    - Start and/or stop collecting erratically or purge their collection periodically.

    I’m committed to the belief that at any given point there are millions of adult Transformers fans who don’t own ANY Optimus Primes, Megatrons, Starscreams, or Bumblebees. Many of those may not own ANY Transformers toys. Some may own over a hundred with a gap for an iconic character they’re just waiting for the right version of. Some only replace out a character once every 5 or 10 years. There were probably some people who replaced Unicron Trilogy characters with Siege versions on a shelf, skipping Classics.

    If you don’t like getting an annual Optimus, pretend it doesn’t exist. There’s someone who wants it. It might be a child who graduated into it. It might be a 45 year old man. It seems to keep the brand healthy that it exists.

    It was a NIGHTMARE being interested in MOTUC if you took 18 month gaps from collecting or didn’t get in on the ground floor. If the main characters aren’t constantly available, collecting turns into a pyramid scheme where only the people who start at the beginning get rewarded and everybody else has to settle for eBay scraps at jacked up prices or get labeled a “fake fan”.
     
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  9. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    The problem is that you only get to the quality Decepticons when you get to the 86 and onward cons.
    And since Hasbro only made a few of those in WFC so far, so if you limit yourself to WFC toys your only quality Decepticons are pretty much only gonna be Spinister and Apeface.

    The non G1 inclusion of Barricade is a very poor replacement for the god cool superior tier core ubermensch upper caste Decepticons of late G1.
    So your only hope is for Hasbro to produce more toys of those higher eschelon Decepticons.
     
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  10. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    I think you are putting too much importance in fiction.
    There's a lot of people who love the late G1 designs and don't give a fuck about the fiction.
    That's why none of those bland designs of the pre-86 TF's qualify as quality ubermensch supercool higher management Transformers who get all the girls.

    Why do you think Roberts sexualized all those characters you just named?
    The late G1 guys are super sexy while the 84 nobodies are a bunch of dweebs with a beerbelly.
     
  11. imfallenangel

    imfallenangel Well-Known Member

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    Are you Rob's alt login? You're also missed the point almost entirely and posted in the same fashion.

    Rob stated:
    "we fans are a fraction of the buying market. Hasbro makes the bulk of their profits in Transformers from kids"
    "but to treat us like we are the main audience and not what we are; a smaller (important and dedicated) portion of the audience is a bit mis guided."

    I disagreed and asked for source that proved that collectors are an unimportant fraction as he stated.

    He replied with articles that actually assisted my point as they stated that collectors/fanbase were quite important and did have a serious impact.

    For my "proof" it's easy... the masterpiece collection was started and created for the collectors/fanbase, the Unicron fundme was also completely done to test the waters. The evolution of toys has been with the collectors/fanbase in mind, as it's not rocket science to understand that Hasbro does follow what the market wants, and as I already stated, ONE collector/fan will spend a lot more than a regular household will for a child's birthday/Christmas or special occasion. Hasbro would have to be insane to not market for the fanbase/collector's market. So to consider such a group as "fraction" or "smaller portion" is absolutely inaccurate, as, as far as buying power goes, WE are the power base for the high priced items and high number per individuals.

    Your own comment "neither group can be discounted and both are big enough that they have to be catered to, ideally both at once" IS my very point, so you provided a counter to your own opening comment: "What you’re asking for is something unreasonable to ask for.". It's quite ironic.

    I do not want to use my personal background or what I do as a profession to embarrass either of you, as I'm just being firm with someone making a general statement as if it's the "truth", to have actual facts or at least proper examples to back their point. In this case, the "proof" they provided contradicted them and actually confirmed my point.

    So also with you, I'm ending it here as your post didn't even follow the question asked, but I felt generous enough to provide you with a reply.
     
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  12. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

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    I yield my time to the gentleman from Iacon :) . Great point (obviously) 100% agree.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  13. Iruini

    Iruini Some shitposter

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    Galvatron's minions? I usually just give the post 87 guys thier own shelf lead by potp pretender starscream or thunderwing
    I mean it's still important, to some extent. Every fan is diffrent in someway. some love the fiction, others enjoy the toys, others enjoy both. but the true fans worship our lord and savoir big motorvator. Sometimes fiction helps man. Sometimes it doesn't.

    anyway, if they don't give ER bumblebee the helicopter back of decapitation and safety hazards I will riot >:[
    [​IMG]
    this thing is important to the character of bumblebee, it taught him maybe flying a backpack with a very sharp blade moving at high speeds a few inches above your head is a bad idea
     
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  14. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

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    Yeah but I think for the most part the fiction is the gateway drug to toy collecting


    the helicopter thing is so stupid, but I love it :lol . I hope we get a re-she’ll of Bumblebee with the helicopter backpack
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  15. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

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    Please. Embarrass me with your profession.

    I’ve seen that work, every time someone’s tried it.
     
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  16. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

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    That I agree with. Most of us wouldn't be here without the fiction, and history has proven that Hasbro needs popular fiction to sell the toys and that sales drop without popular fiction in support of the toys.
     
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  17. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

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    I think they seem to be doing well of late with what I’d call “implied popular fiction” where the toys themselves seem to be a contradictory stew of past associations and obscure present projects and so the “story” is basically just a big Rorschach ink blot test where we all see what we want to see.

    WFC could be anything from a G1 reboot to an IDW line to a tie in with a cartoon we’ve never seen to a Marvel line to Bayverse or a mobile game wearing G1 like a skin suit.
     
  18. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

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    I think there is some truth to this, but more of a case of different paths to collecting, maybe G1, maybe IDW, maybe Cyberverse.
     
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  19. RodimusRex

    RodimusRex Well-Known Member

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    Hey! Worked for ACTUAL G1. Not like JG1, Sunbow, AKOM, Marvel, the commercials, OR the bios all line up. Heck, Sunbow didn’t line up with other Sunbow sometimes.

    I think my favorite “continuity” is the commercials. If you try to track that, it’s KIND OF like the cartoon but Rodimus Prime is still running around after The Rebirth and Optimus is resurrected as a Powermaster like the comics and Spike has a still-unnamed black friend and Jazz and Bumblebee return as Pretenders. And my hazy recollection is that Starscream created the Monster Pretenders. And Decepticons have legions of sleeper agents posing as 12 year old kids. And Optimus Prime is “one tough dude” and Megatron’s “mighty mega-missiles are slammin’”.
     
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  20. Rob

    Rob IDW FOREVER

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    :lol 

    I can see that! Add on top of that “a big bad bot named Brutucus!” And I am in!


    Yeah I kind of wished we saw a Powermaster Optimus Prime season of Transformers in the 1980s or 1990s by then. I recently was watching a great fan dub of headmasters and was enjoying Hound standing next to Hot Rod.
     
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