Unpopular transformers opinions

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Smokeyoreo18, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. Rojixus

    Rojixus I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY!

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Posts:
    1,995
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +5,317
    All the Micro Change guys need proper vehicle modes (or proper robot modes in the case of Ravage et al.).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. jungle penguins

    jungle penguins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Posts:
    367
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    122
    Likes:
    +581
    I'm not disagreeing on success prior to 2007, Transformers could've continued the route without live action and live but, this is a pretty big jump. And it allowed Hasbro to invest in more things which proceeded to not bring profits causing the brand to be back to square one in non-live action media nowadays.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Posts:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Likes:
    +5,514
    Yeah, I kinda figured it wasn't what you meant. But I really didn't understand your comment, so made of it what I wanted.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Posts:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Likes:
    +5,514
    Literally any TF movie would have created a big jump. Anything. Had it been something substantially good, it would have created an even bigger jump in revenues. That Bayformers could be so fundamentally superficial and yet still bring in money is a testament to how marketable the brand really is.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  5. HotRodDidNothingWrong

    HotRodDidNothingWrong Still salty about TLK Hot Rod

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2020
    Posts:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    122
    Location:
    Canada
    Likes:
    +1,806
    Yeah, I've never gotten why so many people on this site seem to feel the need to downplay how huge the bay films were.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Posts:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Likes:
    +5,514
    They were big, for certain. It's just a shame they weren't better than they were. They attracted some new fans, but there was a missed opportunity that could have pretty much united the fandom instead of fracturing it further. Had they chosen a different director, different writers, different artists... it could have really been a game-changer had the correct mix of people been involved. But regardless, you're right, the movies were money-makers even if from a critical perspective they sorely lacked substance.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  7. Nova Maximus

    Nova Maximus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2020
    Posts:
    6,375
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Location:
    Mississauga, Canada
    Likes:
    +27,839
    Most people I've seen here don't try to downplay how huge the bay films were. There are some yes but most just point out that the films didn't "save the franchise" like some people constantly claim they did.
     
  8. Suboptimal Optimus

    Suboptimal Optimus There Is Such A Thing As Truth

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2020
    Posts:
    1,388
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +3,656
    Transformers wasn't dying during the Unicron Trilogy era, if anything it was slowly reviving itself by the mid 2000. You had the UT but also Dreamwave and, then, IDW in its early Furman era. There is a difference between being a dead brand and just being a B-lister. Granted, I'd argue Transformers never made it into the bin outside of post-G1/G2. That was when the brand wasn't doing well. From Beast Wars onward it kept being sold decently well at retail and remained a consistent presence in the toy aisles, whereas during the end of G1 and during G2 its sales had truly tanked.

    What Bayformers did is massively explode the brand to a mainstream recognition which hadn't been there since Generation 1 and this explosion in popularity made many who had grown up with G1 become aware of 'that childhood thing' and came back to roost, so to speak.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. jungle penguins

    jungle penguins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Posts:
    367
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    122
    Likes:
    +581
    Unifying the fandom is overrated for Transformers. Besides that, these movies were practically made in spite of the idea Transformers fans should be catered to, which is why nearly every aspect felt insulting despite not intending to. Hasbro played the role of allowing that to happen with only minor dial backs like, Optimus needing more red or something hilarious. I argue a more accurate take in the 2007 movie would've made them worse off. These movies are superficial because many people were okay with that, and the movie makers knew like half the elements they included would appeal to them.

    For better or worse (usually worse), much of the formula and elements the 1st live action used were purposeful and meant for a very large demographic.

    But at least the only main dip from Beast Wars to 2007 was Beast Machines which was a smaller time period too.
     
  10. Magnum Dongus

    Magnum Dongus Wishing for a reboot

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Posts:
    1,038
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Likes:
    +2,210
    I realize to casual audiences catering to G1 fans would at best not mean anything, and at worst be alienating if there are certain references that they don’t get. But there are certain things that I wish had a little more effort put into being more recognizable to people who are familiar with Transformers. I’d have a hard time believing that a casual movie goer would walk out of the theater if Bumblebee were a subcompact or if Ironhide had a little red on him.
     
  11. Furnace

    Furnace Ant-droid at a picnic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Posts:
    2,212
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,862
    Agreed. It would certainly be disingenuous to disregard the Bay films’ impact on the franchise. But it would be likewise to disregard the successes prior to the films in order to claim that the movies saved the franchise. If anything, I think it would be more accurate to say the films redefined what constitutes success for Transformers as a brand. So it’s not that the franchise was failing before the films, it’s that with the advent of the Bayformers, the standard of success changed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  12. jungle penguins

    jungle penguins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Posts:
    367
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    122
    Likes:
    +581
    Unpopular opinion here but I think Bumblebee's vehicle choice in the movie helped out a lot. I agree that someone like Ironhide didn't need that big of a drastic change, but some characters really needed that "modernizing" aspect. It just needed more Hasbro pushback if we care for accuracy (Hasbro paid special attention to Optimus and Bumblebee the most, poor Ironhide).

    And I guess I'll say it now, but these movies were made with the most cynical elements in mind (super sci fi designs, product placement, lame sexual appeal, toilet humor, military fanboying) ok, well the last one is due to real life US Military support. There's some nice positive elements but these are things many people are okay with. It gets even more obvious as the movies continued but these elements when combined in the movie studio's vision create success somehow. It eventually died out cause their messups bit back, but I say they reached the maximum appeal for 2007 anyway.

    It's funny though, without the live action, Animated would be in a slightly different direction, but possibly would've been able to live much longer because it wouldn't be accidentally competing with the more "cooler" looking 2007 + Revenge of the Fallen toyline. We was robbed?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Posts:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Likes:
    +5,514
    I'm a TF fan, but a much bigger car fanatic. From my perspective, the Camaro tie-in was not a positive direction for Bee. Maybe it suited the general masses, but at least within my gearhead crowd, the Camaro isn't a car you aspire to drive-- it's one that you begrudgingly admit is a good performer. The design itself isn't considered a good one, and certainly not something that you stand back and admire. If they were going to modernize Bumblebee's alt, they could have done it with something that was both more compatible with G1 and more poster-worthy, like a Porsche Cayman. It's a natural upgrade from a VW Beetle.

    The comment about "cooler-looking" Bayverse toys genuinely gave me a laugh, though I realize many people don't think they're awful. Regardless, without the 2007 movie, the yellow car in Animated would have been Hot Shot, not Bumblebee.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. jungle penguins

    jungle penguins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Posts:
    367
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    122
    Likes:
    +581
    Suiting the general masses is pretty much all I can say on this. I guess it could've just been personal preference for Bay but there certainly were some ulterior reasons in play for getting the general audience excited. I don't have a strong opinion on it, I get the idea they were going for, but I do dislike how those preferences Bay and others had lead to The Last Knight Hot Rod's vehicle mode.

    That part about toy sales being affected by perception is from a former Hasbro employee in an interview somewhere on YouTube. He said something along the lines of kids seeing the more aggressive movie toys and wanting that over Animated. Which in itself made Hasbro realize they needed to delay their toyline for Transformers Prime to not self compete with Dark of the Moon, which then cause a whole set of issues for Prime's revenue.......Transformers is hilarious.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Posts:
    3,946
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +10,715
    Archivist Orion > Dockworker Orion
     
    • Like Like x 10
  16. Bee427

    Bee427 Still here and queer

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2020
    Posts:
    1,425
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +4,063
    Archivist Orion and Dockworker Orion >>>>> Cop Orion
     
    • Like Like x 9
  17. Rewind Eject

    Rewind Eject Still no war in Ba Sing Se

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Posts:
    2,492
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +3,802
    Really want to know what people were thinking when they decided the Decepticons were rebelling against a corrupt government and Optimus was enforcing that corrupt government.

    Like I'm sure there's a bit more nuance to it, but all I can imagine is "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings - now shut up and get back in the mine!".
     
    • Like Like x 9
  18. CyberstormSM

    CyberstormSM Turbo-Revvin' Young Punk

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Posts:
    3,946
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +10,715
    Well, I think that was kind of the point. Orion was a cop, but he wasn't aware of how corrupt the Senate was. It's only ever suggested that he was handling street-level crime, not anything more than that. Really, it's because of his encounter with Megatron that he realizes the truth about the Senate, which leads to him down a pretty interesting course. From "Chaos Theory" to "Shadowplay" to "Elegant Chaos," Roberts is essentially showing us how Orion is becoming more and more of a deep thinker after his encounter with Megatron. He goes from cop to reformist to outlaw over the course of those three stories, largely because of his increasing awareness of the flaws of pre-war Cybertron.

    Then the Autocracy trilogy comes along and kinda poos on that, but I think the story that Roberts was trying to tell with Supercop Orion was pretty interesting.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Bee427

    Bee427 Still here and queer

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2020
    Posts:
    1,425
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Likes:
    +4,063
    I could kind of see Coptimus working in a different story, but IDW OP really was just a tool for the Senate, despite his attempts to do the right thing. And I think it would feel wrong to try that today. I vastly prefer archivist or dockworker Optimus as a representative of the working class that's being oppressed by either a corrupt government or the Decepticons. Someone who would protect people who couldn't protect themselves. It would fit more nicely with the "strong enough to be gentle" theme for Optimus' character.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  20. Rewind Eject

    Rewind Eject Still no war in Ba Sing Se

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Posts:
    2,492
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +3,802
    I get it but I don't think it fits Optimus. Deep social thinking is definitely not the part of Optimus that I think he should need an encounter with Megatron to gain. Call it simple, but if people are oppressed on Cybertron, Optimus should always be on their side. He's Transformer's Captain America and seeing him on the side of the Authoritarian status quo hurts the same as if Captain America did so.

    Also, perhaps there is more to it, but in the first part of "Elegant Chaos" he was fighting Sentinel Prime. But I know that Sentinel was succeeded by Zeta Prime who Optimus also worked for. How did he go cop, reformist, outlaw, and back to cop?
     
    • Like Like x 2