Unpopular toy opinions

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by NotRamjet97, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. Nova Maximus

    Nova Maximus Well-Known Member

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    Optimus toys that replicate the white legs of G1 look just plain bad. The white was suppose to be an easy way to replicate the shininess of silver/chrome with the budget and time production had, that's why the grill, smokestacks and fuel tanks are also white. So when an Optimus toy is given the bright white leg treatment rather than silver or grey to match more it just looks ugly.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  2. IronPrime2169

    IronPrime2169 Supreme Leader of the Bluepremacy

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    I like the new SG Megatron, and think it looks quite great(somehow).
     
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  3. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    I didn’t enjoy RID15, despite respecting its production quality. However, I would LOVE to have a Hasui-style Masterpiece figure of Strongarm. You can have your slinky pink MP Arcee. Strongarm is a fembot done right (with 21st-century sensibilities, no less).
     
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  4. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    lol, agreed 100%, MP 44 looks so bad with those white tights whiteys it makes me want to head desk.

    What version of Classics prime is that?I thought I knew every version, don't recall a white underpants one.
     
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  5. Nova Maximus

    Nova Maximus Well-Known Member

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    Cloud Optimus Prime.
     
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  6. artiepants

    artiepants Transformers '84!!!

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    rrriiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhtt. Still wish I'd gotten that Rodimus. (speaking of head-desking)
     
  7. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure it's an unpopular opinion but I wholeheartedly disagree with you. While you're absolutely right about the original intent of the colors, the final effect by using the white is better. G1 Optimus Prime is litterally a walking 80s cliche ("Freedom is the right of all Sentient beings"), so if we're gonna let our Ronald Reagan hang out, might as well go full red white and blue.

    But this is far from the only case of it by far.

    [​IMG]


    In Amazing Fantasy 15, Spider-Man was supposed to be red and black. The use of blue there was, like Batman, meant to be black. This (along with the big arm webs) is the design motif that the new costume in Far From Home drew from. 10 months later, in his second appearance in Amazing Spiderman #1, Ditko and Lee decided to make it blue intentionally because the Marvel Age was taking off and the tone of comics was changing.

    Batman, famously used blue-as-black until, and even after printing methods improved. But intentionally colored blue suits came to define a look of Batman, just as the grey on him did, or the bat symbol having a yellow background or not. As did black costumes. As did belts with pouches vs streamlined belts (which originally were the same thing).

    In fact with Batman, we can almost mix and match our parts:
    Blue and Black Cape and Cowl (and gloves and boots) -> Pick One.
    Grey or Black shirt and pants -> Pick One
    Belt with Pouches or simple belt -> Pick one.
    Batsymbol with yellow or without. -> Pick one.

    Combine and you make different batmans. Here, I'll show you.
    Blue Cape/Cowl/Gloves + Grey Shirt and Pants + Simple Belt + Bat Symbol with Yellow Shield = Batman of the 1970s /1980s. The Denny O'Neil era. A return to seriousness.
    Blue Cape/Cowl/Gloves + Grey Shirt and Pants + Pouched Belt + Bat Symbol without Yellow Shield = "Neo-classic" Batman of the 2000s. The Jim Lee "Hush" and later Grant Morrison Batman. Batman at his peak.
    Black Cape/Cowl/Gloves + Grey Shirt and Pants + Pouched Belt + Bat Symbol without Yellow Shield = "Modern" Batman for most of 2011-present. Also original Batman design (more or less).
    Black Cape/Cowl/Gloves + Black Shirt and Pants + Simple Belt + Bat Symbol with Yellow Shield = The Tim Burton Batman Costume. Also post-KnightsEnd Batman, through No Mans Land, until around 2000.
    Black Cape/Cowl/Gloves + Black Shirt and Pants + Simple Belt + Bat Symbol without Yellow Shield = The Christopher Nolan Batman costume. Most movie Batmen after Batman Forever.

    For each theme, you pick your Batman. Marketing purposes, for example, usually go with a Batman that has a yellow shield behind the bat symbol because, no matter the color combination, because that's the iconic design. This despite the fact Batman hasn't regularly worn that shield in the comics in well over 20 years.

    So getting back to Transformers... other Optimus Primes having silver (or grey) on them makes perfect sense. Its the same thing with Megatron, if you like your Megatron matte grey or shiny. But if we're talking the Optimus of 1984 and the Megatron of 1984, it means the same thing as any of the particular Batman's above, and their design dictates white legs for Optimus and matte a grey paint job for Megs. The moment you don't do that, it's not 1984 Optimus/Megatron anymore, just as giving the Denny O'Neil era Batman a black cape and cowl suddenly makes it not authentically Denny O'Neil's Batman anymore. It's still Batman, but not *that* Batman.
     
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  8. Mister D

    Mister D Bloosh Compatible TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think TR Chromedome is a terribly uninteresting toy.
     
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  9. Patrickab7

    Patrickab7 Well-Known Member

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    I liked Strongarm A LOT in that series. Not your typical fembot by any means.
     
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  10. ACMagnus

    ACMagnus Phantom Thief

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    I really don't like most 3P add-on sets for most figures, including gap fillers. Often times I find that it clashes with the figure it's supposed to enhance, whether it be a slight color mismatch or it being too over/under detailed for the figure.
     
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  11. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    It’s basically $15 added to a $30 figure in order to make it look like a $25 figure. It’s bad aesthetics and bad math.
     
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  12. Aladar20003

    Aladar20003 Aladar The Outmoded Autistic

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    Complex transformations are just as valid as simple ones. Admittedly part of the reason I hold this view is because I'm autistic and transformers are a great stim/fidget tool for me and the more complex transformations are soothing when I'm dealing with a lot of frustration because they make me stop and think (mpm Jazz and universe Galvatron come immediately to mind)
     
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  13. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    [​IMG]

    Nope. The 1984 Optimus Prime has silver legs, not white. There's no white whatsoever on Optimus. The white of the animation was simply a shorthand for the silver detailing, and not even consistent, since his face is also silver, but rendered as grey in animation.

    And none of these color reimaginings from the cartoon actually look good when ported back to the toys.
     
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  14. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    No. You misunderstand. G1 Toy Optimus Prime also had yellow eyes, an extremely dark blue/purple, and hashes on the mouthplate. G1 Toy Optimus is distinct from G1 Cartoon Optimus.

    Don't believe me?

    This guy disagrees.

    [​IMG]


    While we've had yellow eyed "G1 Optimus" many times before (like a lot of the Classics mold that was just mean tto be an indistinct G1 Optimus", the presence of the hashes on the mouthplate with HUGE yellow eyes and the deep blue/purple helmet make clear that this is Takara's first real "new" G1 TOY Optimus since, well, G1.

    G1 Toy Optimus is a distinct "character" from G1 Cartoon Optimus. Consider Hasbro were to do a Generations figure of this:

    [​IMG]

    Would you say they're doing Ironhide? Not exactly. They're doing G1 Toy Ironhide.

    So when we're considering G1 Optimuses, we need to be specific. Are we doing "Generic" G1 Optimus? In that case the silver / grey works and most toys go in that direction (i.e. all of Generations). Are we doing "G1 Cartoon Optimus"? It has to be white then. Similarly, if you gave the above Star Convoy Optimus prime the head of Siege Optimus Prime, it stops being "G1 Toy Optimus Prime", and becomes just a generic Optimus Prime. Because without the Hashes, the big yellow eyes and a helmet like that, it isn't combining the unique defining style features of the G1 Toy. It's the exact same thing as I said with Batman above.

    And I plainly disagree. I think the matte look of the MP figures is way better than the early metallic / chromed "ultimate toy" look. But that's just taste.
     
  15. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    I'd certainly call it Ironhide. The toy design is just as valid as the animation model. Heck, I reaally wish we'd gotten the Energon Tow-Line remold as Ironhide, at retail because it would be a blend of toy and toon.

    Yes, but one looks good, while the other looks like a cheap drawing. You didn't say "cartoon G1 Optimus". You said 1984 Optimus. And my point was that the animation colors were just an oversimplification of the toy deco, and were never intended to provide a "definitive" look for the character.
     
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  16. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    Well I let me restate that then. I would draw a distinction between G1 Cartoon Optimus and G1 Toy Optimus. I think _now_ they're every bit as different Armada Optimus Prime and Prime Optimus Prime. In 1984, the cartoon Optimus Prime was certainly meant to be a animation-friendly interpretation of that design. But here, 35 years later, I think they represent distinct interpretations and a toy that intentionally tries to be "G1 Animation" Optimus Prime requires those white legs, every bit as much as a toy that tries to be G1 Toy Optimus Prime needs the hashes on the mouthplate. Consider this example:

    [​IMG]

    Ol' Buddy Action Master Optimus Prime. What's the defining features of this design? I would say it's the blue forearms, which is something that no other primary G1 Optimus Prime has (all blue gloves). I would also say probably the yellow eyes and maybe the yellow forehead pentagon. Maybe the blue legs, but I'm not sure about that.

    Now if we were to recreation Action Master Optimus Prime with a new *non transforming* toy, could you really do it without the blue forearms. Well, we've had many of those. Transformers RED Optimus PRime is on the shelves now. But he's not AM Optimus Prime. But what if this was how it was done (quick digibash by me):

    upload_2021-5-1_17-47-5.png

    I'd say the intent was to do AM OPtimus Prime, not just *an* Optimus Prime. G1 Cartoon Optimus is the same. And if we're doing him, he has to have white legs. It's part of his design. But we're doing a "Generic G1 Cartoon Optimus", then the grey/silver works, as most Transformers do that. I think the difference between baseline Siege Optimus and 35th Optimus reflect this very well.

    Also I've said for a while, now that we're mostly done with "Ultimate G1" in Generations, I would *LOVE* a line that takes the weird designs of the G1 Box Art and some of the toys and puts them in Generations forum. An entirely different interpretation of Transformers. I'd love a storyline and a Megatron with ah ead like this:

    [​IMG]


    SAnd not be afraid of design strangeness:
     
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  17. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    I agree we need more variety, though I'd prefer it to be non-G1 stuff. I'd consider non-Sunbow, though if interesting enough. Sunbow is the least of the various interpretations of G1, and its prevalence in the line right now is a big part of my disinterest in WFC and SS86.

    But what does this have to do with what you replied to?
     
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  18. StrifeZ

    StrifeZ Well-Known Member

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    Thought I was pretty clear: G1 Animation Optimus and G1 Toy Optimus are different.

    If you're doing G1 Animation Optimus, it's white legs. It's ONLY white legs. It's intrinsic to the design, evne though they were originally meant to represent silver/grey/chromed legs.
    If you're doing "Generic G1 Optimus", it's grey legs. This is the route most of Generations takes.
    If you're doing G1 Toy Optimus Prime, it's not even just grey legs, but it's hashes on the faceplate, big yellow eyes.
    If you're doing AM Optimus Prime, it's big yellow eyes and big blue forearms.


    All interpretaitons of G1 Optimus Prime, like those of Batman, have different feature combinations (eye color, forearm color, leg color, color of the "blue") and any toy that is attempting to do one of these iterations has to exhibit those key features in their entirety, or it falls under "generic".

    A G1 Optimus Prime without the white legs isn't Animation G1 Optimus Prime, but Generic G1 Optimus Prime.
    A G1 Optimus Prime with yellow eyes but without the hashes on the faceplate isn't Toy G1 Optimus Prime, but Generic G1 Optimus Prime.
    A Non-Transforming G1 Optimus PRime with blue forearms and Yellow eyes is a representation of Action Master Prime. Cut out the blue forearms, but keep the eyes, and it's just Generic G1 Optimus Prime.

    So getting back to the original point, if we're doing animation G1 Optimus Prime, like MP-44, it has to be white legs, or it's Generic G1 Optimus Prime, and not Animation G1 Optimus Prime. That white may have meant to represented silver, but like Batman's blue highlights, it came to mean something else.

    And again, G1 Animation Optimus Prime being a Reaganesque creature of the 1980s, "freedom is the right of all sentient beings", it's somehow fitting he's red white and blue. He's robot cliche Captain America. There isn't depth to him. He's a cartoon character among cartoon characters.
     
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  19. KFGatri

    KFGatri Madman with a Blue Box

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    Ultimately, the point of myself and the person who said white legs don't work is that the color choice looks terrible. Justifying it by saying it's "show accurate" doesn't make it any more attractive.

    Yeah, it's "show accurate". Doesn't make it any less ugly and cheap-looking.

    I'm fully aware MP44 is meant to look like it stepped right out of the cartoon. I - and the OP - think that makes it look terrible.
     
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  20. Zentropy

    Zentropy Toys > Fiction

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    I like complex transformations if they’re well-engineered and involve minimal fakery. I prefer that they utilize their alt-mode parts, not hide them. MP-44’s transformation is amazingly engineered, but I don’t find it enjoyable, and I don’t like that as much of the engineering is dedicated to hiding the alt mode as it is to creating a robot form. It basically turns inside out in order to look like a simplified drawing from 1984. MP-47 is another example of a complex transformation that I despise. It’s an example of a brilliantly engineered, bad idea. And although some of my XTB figures are favorites of mine when in either mode, the route between the two is in some cases a miserable experience (looking at you, Boost).
     
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