Unpopular toy opinions

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by NotRamjet97, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. theestampede

    theestampede Wandering Artist

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    Late g1 is the kind of creativity I’m talking about. It’s generally my favorite era of g1 stuff.
    I love how experimental it got and I generally love masterforce. It’s probably the reason I like the Titans Return line so much.

    What I’m frustrated by is that we are in this era right now where it feels like 75 percent of the classic style toys are the 84/85 cast. The kids cartoon is focused on a very specific cast. And the movie stuff is pretty focused on the past as well.

    Where’s the new? Where’s the creativity? At least siege is starting to spread out a bit with Apeface and Spinister. But I want to see new stories and new characters, I want to see new designs and new ideas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  2. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    Exactly.

    Personally, I'm optimistic ; I think they gauged popularity of quite a few Pretenders with the PotP Titanmasters .... TR Apeface to the Siege Apeface we' ll be getting, is a good example case of that theory.

    The individual shells of the Monstructor combiner are nothing short of gloriously bizarre creations, which I think would look fantastic with today's engineering.

    Let' s also not forget guys like the sparkabots and of course DoubleDealer's organic-robotic eagle mode either.

    But I get your initial concern ; they always paste a line full with the season 1&2 characters - but I think that's the necessary thing to do since those will always sell...those are the sales which will enable exploration of the more obscure and experimental characters in this line.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  3. Fenrir Zero

    Fenrir Zero AFA/VGA/TRPG Collector

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    In both Hasbro and TakaraTomy's defense the line-up feels like they are doing a "definitive edition" when it comes to creating a new G1 continuity. Which means that 'Siege' will be new versions of the 1984-1986 cast, with those from the 1987 cast making some type of appearance. But it also means that Parts 2 and 3 should be giving us more of that 1987-1988 feel the rest of us want. :) 

    But at this point I want both my brain and budget to agree with a direction I should go with my current attempt when it comes to building a proper JG1 Transformers collection. :p 
     
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  4. Dragga

    Dragga Well-Known Member

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    See, this point I constantly argue against because Hasbro repeatedly mentions trying to keep the toys aimed at a primary demographic of kids who have very little connection to the original characters. Most of the time, the toys sell regardless of who, and then classic characters end up frequently being shelfwarmers. The appeal to older fans has never really proved a lasting market, and I believe Hasbro once said explicitly as such, which is a part of why the live-action films helped so much. Broadening the scope of the audience. I'd look at Rescue Bots as an example of how little the original cast means to younger fans. While it's true there's still a market towards older fans, I don't think it's reason enough to justify such an adamant sticking to the same pool of characters time and time again, and they can definitely afford to do more along the lines of branching out their character selections. Not to mention a bunch of these characters, for the sake of trademarks, have alternate incarnations they could also use rather than G1. Optimus? You've got RiD2001, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, and Animated as designs to pull from for an example rather than just sticking to the G1 character.

    Even I tend to buy less because of the characters and more based on just the quality and fun of the design. My Siege purchases so far are Hound, Sixgun, Cog, Brunt, and Soundwave. Soundwave is the only one I've remotely touched because of nostalgia, as the others are fairly unknown to me due to my G1 experience being limited to what my dad could find and bring me on VHS for the cartoon. But they're also really fun toys, and that's my main appeal. I feel Hasbro could easily be more experimental with the character selection, especially in a line called "Generations", not "Generation 1".

    Though, I'll also be fair to Hasbro in that a lot of the G1 characters haven't had a toy in recent years that wasn't part of a gimmick that was kinda alien to the character. Like, I think the last Optimus Prime we got that did nothing but focus on being Optimus (no combiner, no headmaster, etc) was...what, the old Classics mold? So not entirely without reason for the choices, just still could afford to not be so reliant on G1 as it only really sells because it's nearly all they do. When it's the default, hard for it not to sell well just due to numbers.
     
  5. Saberclaw84

    Saberclaw84 Defensor’s Servant

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    I'm not going to lie, I miss Power Core Combiners.

    Not to mention the fact that I have a soft spot for figures like Payload from the '07 line, but personally, at this point, I'd rather get higher quality versions of G1 characters than to get new characters with poor QC. Remember Mudslinger, Double Clutch, and even Payload? They were all notorious for poor quality.
     
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  6. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    We have been getting a fair amount of nudges to these lines.

    Most recent examples are the upcoming Siege HotShot and Siege Leader Class Galaxy Optimus Prime drawing from Armada and Cybetron lines respectively.
    And even though some other examples are not inspired by those lines to full extent, these do incorporate design cues from them:

    - Ultra Magnus with his Rid2001 inspired truckmode
    - Siege Jetfire's lower legs & feet show mild Armade Jetfire influences
    - Siege Shockwave's armored up mode has a very 'Cybetron' vibe to it imho

    Prior lines also had their fair share of influences such as:
    - Combiner Wars Armada Megatron
    - Thrilling 30 Armada Starscream

    and I'm probably forgetting quite a few more....
     
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  7. waflhaus91

    waflhaus91 Co-wisest person at TFW, as proclaimed by barry. TFW2005 Supporter

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    Siege Hotshot is a Cybertron Defense Hot Shot homage from Cybertron, not Armada.
     
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  8. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    I stand corrected.

    Thanks for pointing it out!
     
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  9. Dragga

    Dragga Well-Known Member

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    I've addressed these in different posts around here, but that's actually another bit in my argument. We're getting small nudges, and still usually slapped onto the G1 characters. Rather than openly celebrating all the Generations in the line named "Generations", Hasbro is very adamant about sticking to G1 with only slight nods thrown here and there. Even that Armada Starscream was used as a body for G1 Starscream, as if the toy couldn't sell without shouting that's it's still G1. Of that list (and Shockwave, apologies in advance, doesn't feel anything like Cybertron, I cannot count that) only one was done without at all compromising in some way to connect it to G1 beyond being a retool of the tank Megatron, which did ultimately work (and Hot Shot barely resembles the original due to being Hound with new colors and a new head even if I love the mold and like those colors better than Hound's). Ultra Magnus is still G1 Magnus, Siege Jetfire is still G1 Jetfire, and Thrilling 30s Starscream was made functionally a body for G1 Starscream, Siege Galaxy Upgrade Optimus is still the G1 Optimus.

    My point will always be that there's simply no reason to be limiting the other eras and designs to what amounts to cameos in an ever expanding sea of G1 redos. Especially since many of those older designs are due for updates. Even moving into the unofficial market, you see an overabundance of G1 as the primary selection. It makes it almost tiring to want to go into collecting when nostalgia isn't your primary reason for buying. Hasbro could afford to mix it up more than they do and pull more commonly from multiple eras or even more frequently just pulling away from the standard rotation of G1 core characters. If you need to do a version of Optimus, why not do RID, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, War for/Fall of Cybertron, or Prime inspired versions rather than the default G1 design? Hell, even the Laser Optimus design is a refreshing change of pace when it comes up.

    I do think Beastformers are a bit hard to do on an official budget, I will say that. Usually one mode's articulation has to suffer, but even then, I'd love if we could expect an updated Beast Wars design more frequently.
     
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  10. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    The nostalgia driven factor is the trend now.
    As you noted, even 3P is riding that very much now indeed.

    But there's more to it - As discussed on this forum since the Prime Wars Trilogy started with Combiner Wars, this trend started:

    - A holistic approach to (cross) play pattern; which boosted engineering innovation, because the cost could be spread out over multiple figures.
    This is a major selling point, marketing-wise because it really works the "gotta collect 'em all" principle in hand.
    - A more unified approach to design aesthetics; prior to Thrilling 30's, aesthetics and relative scaling were all over the place. I'm sure this also helps
    to streamline design development & production logistics on their part a great deal.
    - If you look at Generations releases, we are now nearing the point of post-1986 movie/ Season 3 characters; There are still heaps of late 80's G1
    characters who still deserve the update treatment before whatever came after G1 truly ended in any shape/form. Back in the days, the toy form of say...Pretenders
    might have been a little crummy, but those organic/robotic concepts still hold massive potential if done well with modern engineering.

    So yeah, as a 1978 TF fan, I really applaud most of this trend. Maybe it is indeed just best for you to accept that this isn't for you - but hey, during the Bay movie years
    a lot of G1 fans also felt a bit neglected and that time has passed now.
     
  11. RKStrikerJK5

    RKStrikerJK5 Well-Known Member

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    I don't find Ironhide from Transformers: Energon to be that bad of a toy, or even really that bad. I really like him and think he's underrated. His major-and really only-design flaw, his visible head in robot mode is bad, yes. And there's no real excuse for it. A flap, being able to push the head down or something, would've been better. There's room in the body for it! However, here's the thing. Again, that's really his only flaw. And it's only visible if you look directly at it. Ignoring the visible head?

    Well, you've got a big, powerful-looking vehicle. Inside the front are molded seats and a steering wheel. unpainted, but them being there is still pretty damned cool. The upper assembly can be popped off if the visible head's really bothering you. ;)  Transformation is simple in a good way. It's not frustrating or anything. When you're finished, you have a big, powerful-looking, well-proportioned robot with good articulation. Gimmicks are concentrated in the assembly so as not to interfere with anything. And his Powerlinx modes I've heard described as close to the best in the line.
     
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  12. Imperator

    Imperator The last, best hope for humanity

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    I thought it did have a flap to cover the face?
     
  13. Prime of Shadows

    Prime of Shadows Quick as Lightning

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    His helmet rotates down to cover his eyes. Punch-Counterpunch style.
     
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  14. RKStrikerJK5

    RKStrikerJK5 Well-Known Member

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    What Prime said. The helmet slides down, but just covers his eyes. The rest of the face is still visible.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. waflhaus91

    waflhaus91 Co-wisest person at TFW, as proclaimed by barry. TFW2005 Supporter

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    I find referring to Red Alert and Brunt as Red Albert and The Burt to be extremely annoying.
     
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  16. Dragga

    Dragga Well-Known Member

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    And a lot of the G1 fans complained about getting toy of characters who weren't combiners/headmasters as such. People would still buy those toys without it being those core G1 characters. I'm not remotely saying drop ALL G1. I'm saying that we are at a point in brand recognition and abundance of certain characters that you can afford to swap out some with characters from other Generations and eras. Pick lesser known/used G1, pick Beast Wars, pick whatever. I even specifically mentioned using the G2 "laser" Optimus more often to spice up the formula away from just more of G1 Prime.

    The Bay films never stopped the G1 characters from still filling the toy lines. Classics was born after the first Bay film, and the successor lines have gone strong since, even running in conjunction with the movie toy lines. There was never a situation where it was one or the other. The idea that we need to get through all of G1 before we can move to anything else is just asinine. There's no reason why a line called Generations can't pull from multiple generations at a more common rate, and that's my entire point about the franchise starting to stagnate.
     
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  17. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Classics came first. Classics got brought back as Universe 2.0 because it sold far better than they were expecting. They've been constantly redoing characters from other continuities, and they've been doing less than stellar at retail, with the exception of some that suffered from shoddy distribution. BW in particular, but other continuity figs parked for longer than one would figure. Hot Shot, for instance, was poorly distributed AND sat around until clearanced out, at least in about 8 towns in my local area.
     
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  18. Purple Heart

    Purple Heart Pure Passion

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    If you can’t remember if you own something, you shouldn’t own it.

    These websites that “keep track of your collection” are ridiculous. Nobody is asking you to name off every figure that you own, but if you were presented with a figure and were unsure if you own it, you should have never gotten it in the first place because it’s clear you don’t care about it.
     
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  19. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    I' m fairly sure that's not their point.

    The thing I am trying to convey to you is that it's about cohesion in a toy line. This is anything but stagnate : it's about moving forward in a clear cut direction.
    What you ask for, sort of goes against that, especially since Hasbro wants to present these figures to market under commonly shared play pattern and narrative. That's why Takara failed to market Diakron ( the product line name they used for trying to bring Diaclone to US market, prior to Transformers ) in the west in the first place : they lacked cohesion and narrative. It's a similar market principle.

    But yeah, it's just not for you. Most of the consumer market is lapping it up, both the official camp and 3P consumers too.
     
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  20. Dragga

    Dragga Well-Known Member

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    You can maintain cohesion without stagnation. Play pattern is not tied to a bunch of these characters. A bunch of characters that don't fit the patterns get forced into them. This franchise got by a lot on avoiding the stagnation. Even now, every reboot results in the same core cast once again, when there's a huge roster to pick from before going back to find ways to still work in other typicals to keep the trademarks they want.

    Actually, the most common shelfwarmers I end up seeing are Bumblebee, Optimus, and Megatron for my area. I think Arcee was also one back when her Thrilling 30s toy happened. I notice in general Optimus and Megatron always have a hard time moving in recent years. Even Siege Megatron is still frequently spotted around my area. Very few of the other era characters I've seen lasted that long. I think the closest to shelfwarmer I've seen of the new Beast era stuff was Rhinox, who lasted a smidge longer on shelves in stores around me than Waspinator or Rattrap in that time, and even he sold more than Whirl from roughly the same time. And that's not even going into how Seekers just do not seem to sell around here...
     
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