Unfair pricing on TFers toys

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Alucard77, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

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    Is it? If my understanding of economics is correct, retailers buy product from the manufacturer. They then sell that product back at an increased price to make up for how much they paid for the stuff in the first place with profit. The majority of what the retailer paid to the company is what makes up the small profits they get per figure after taking away the costs (material, labor, designing, shipping, etc.). I remember once reading about how a $120 shoe actually only costs something like $10 to produce. It's the SHIPPING and HANDLING of said shoe that makes up most of the other $110, the actual profit gained from the shoe is only like, $3.

    Well, other collectible toys don't have a trio of blockbuster films that are making the franchise insanely popular. Collectors aren't the ONLY ones who buy that stuff, you know.

    Using Gundams is a poor comparison. The majority of product sold under the Gundam name is actually model kits, and those are able to be cheaply produced because they don't require any assembly on part of the factory. There's also the part where the yen/U.S. dollar conversion rate is slowly decreasing, so prices for Gundams are already inherently falling.

    You also seem to be forgetting the part about importation prices. It costs money to have these things shipped to the warehouses the online retailers use, and since most product comes from overseas, shipping is ridiculous (and only made more so because of rising gas prices). Retailers need to make up THAT cost in addition to the price paid for the actual figure.

    I don't think there is a stated rule that companies HAVE to loose money when they have sales.

    Walmart has locations in nearly every American city there is. They don't need 50% profits.

    BBTS is not a national zillion-store superstore chain. Like third-parties, they need to raise their prices to take in a little extra cash in order to stay afloat.
     
  2. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    So are people missing the point that this unexplained $4 price hike is the beginning of a trend and not the end?

    I am sure Alucard's issue is the same as mine. These American retailers are feeling us out to see how high we are willing to go. Today is $4 tomorrow? The sky's the limit.
     
  3. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    I believe that FP is a Chinese company like many third party companies, so the Yen should not effect this. If anything, then we should see increases on all of the Japanese figures, which remained flat in cost while these increased.

    Secondly, I think your kinda making my point. The Causality line is increased in cost to make profit to possibly pay off the rest of the other loses BBTS may have.

    The problem is, the TF fandom carries the cost loss that a figure that did not sell may have had. I see this with TF more so then other items. As TF fans we just except it and move on. I am saying we should not do this.

    Please check out my previous thread in regards to shipping and currency protection.
     
  4. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think the "it's only $4" position is sort of indefensible. "It's only $5; it's only $6." If that's your only argument, when is it too much?

    Rather, there are tons of factors that none of us know about. A volatile economy, a weak US dollar, overhead, profit margins, fees, taxes, logistics, etc. We've grown accustomed to low prices, and we don't question them until we're pushed beyond our expectations. Accept the reality of the situation, carefully consider your options and try to make the most rational decision.
     
  5. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    dollar to Yuan has been going down as well. A lot of Japanese figures DID get an increase in price. FP isn't a chinese company. We don't know where their factories are. (At least I don't. Some people here may, but the rest is speculation).

    I recall once an insider says that FP uses a factory that has very good quality production. If anything this leads me to think it is less likely for it to be in China.

    Finally, I want to state that, I am not "blind" to price hikes. I am aware and have my own judgment of when they are fair vs. when they are not acceptable. Just want to throw it out there in case someone thinks "I would pay any amount of dollars".
     
  6. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    Transbot, the sky isn't the limit. Everyone has a different limit. It just seems like certain people's limits are reached earlier than another.
     
  7. Grandum

    Grandum Well-Known Member

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    I added firearm to my bbts pile of loot that includes a 2010 Primus, exgraver, Unicron and about 20 other lil small ones, (the lil fp targetmaster) as my old firearm got worn out after spending a month in my pocket.

    Added shipping cost: $5

    seriously? $5 extra in shipping for adding a targetmaster? I'm not one to get easily upset about shipping and whatnot I can buy a deluxe at retail for $40 and not care the slightest...but that's just wrong...I wonder how much the shipping REALLY is to ship this package.
     
  8. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    What sucks is that IT APPEARS that BBTS is trying to find out where that limit is and TFSource is following right behind them like a lost little puppy.
     
  9. PlanckEpoch

    PlanckEpoch Red and black red and black

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    The price hikes do suck, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is based more off of fan demand than economics. I'm sure economics play a part, but if so you'd be seeing more price hikes across the board for all sorts of products...but it's just third party stuff.

    Ultimately all I have to say is that if people aren't happy with price hikes...vote with your wallet. It's an insanely hard thing to do I imagine...but just don't buy the damn things. I don't like the price for TFC Hercules, so I'm not buying them. What do you think retailers would do if they're suddenly sitting on hundreds of product like that and no one is touching them?

    We are too addicted to plastic crack to realize that we have a powerful tool at our hands...the decision whether or not to buy in the first place. At some point you have to suck it up and say no regardless of how cool or awesome a figure/s is.
     
  10. Matty

    Matty @StayingInTheBox Veteran

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    I'm surprised this hasn't at least been touched upon, maybe it can spark some discussion as well ... why was Thundershred's price raised? Let's say the exchange rate did have an effect of the price hike; why was an in stock item raised in price? The product was already sitting on the shelves, in stock for weeks, surely the exchange rate couldn't effect a item already paid for?

    To my knowledge there was not a second order or anything as the inventory levels have been fairly consistent with the item. I see Thundershred as an example of raising the price to simply generate more profit. I suppose we can lump this into the crowd of "why aren't other figures being raised in price as well?"

    Thoughts? Explanations? Theories?
     
  11. DethPike

    DethPike Master of Sinanju

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    Then don't buy them. That's not meant to be an ignorant statement, but honestly - it's the only way the prices will come down. If I see something that seems high to me, I don't give the sellers my money. It's that simple.

    If we ALL see a high price and REFUSE TO PAY IT - prices WILL drop. But what are the chances of that?

    These new deluxes at Target or other retail that are pushing $13 - $15? Yeah, I'm about to STOP buying those. I love Transformers - but the product sometimes ain't worth the cost. I'd love to get my hands on Blackshadow and Junkion when they hit - but everything else that ships with them can sit there. The price hikes have forced me to pick and choose instead of "collecting them all".

    People need to prioritize too - Amazon Unicron was $60 - that's TWO tanks of gas, depending on your car - maybe 1 for an SUV. You NEED gas, you don't NEED Unicron. So, there's that too. If the toys start to cost more than your "needs", then the toys need to STOP. Period. Fun should not cost more than necessities. And when it DOES, I stop buying the "fun". :) 
     
  12. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    Don't know how it is for you, but I think I get charged .90$ or even nothing for adding sidearm. Remember, you are international. Everything is more expensive.

    @Transbot: that just means TFSource is not too savvy and don't appear too well (they haven't repaired the rep they lost since that fiasco) BBTS may try to find out the limit, if that's what they are doing. But then, if indeed they do that they will realize every fan has a diff limit.

    In the end, they will calculate a max profit curve with the factors of how many people buying vs. price.
     
  13. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    The Preorder thing has me scratching my head. Don't they order x amount then put x amount up for preorder to the consumer. That is why if I put in a number, I know the total number of preorders they have up for purchase. Therefore, didn't they already pre order 10,000 or whatever? Or are they ordering after the fact?

    As for locations in China, that is an example. A lot of times you can even work out deals where you can ship straight from the factory where the product is finished. Not sure if Takara stuff is made in Japan anymore. If it is not, and it is made in China, there is no reason to have a point in Japan. You can get past that and just do China.

    Since a lot of items are made in China, I used that as an example as most stock should technically come from their.

    Yes, you are correct for items like shoes sold at footlocker, but BBTS is a whole different monster.

    But let's look at Amazon Unicron. Amazon offer free shipping and handling. So realistically BBTS has to pay for storage, employee fees and possibly software fees. You cannot say that their employees only deal with this item, they deal with all items, so that cost is spread accross all items.

    So just provide an example where the price of said toy did go up to the same level as TFers. That's all I ask.

    I would say Sideshow figures maybe. But those are jacked up for the same reasons TFers are jacked up in price.

    Please read my post about shipping. I worked in Logistics for 6 years as an assistant book keeper. I saw those records. Trust me, they are not paying the shipping fees you think they are.


    I never said they do. But isn't 40-50% profit margins a little rediculous? Could you imagine if everything we purchased the middle man was recognizing 40-50% profit margins on.

    That's fine, I just ask that prices are raised across the board on all their toys, not just TFers. And trust me, BBTS is not "staying afloat". They do well.
     
  14. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I won't complain when an "in stock" price is higher than a preorder. The point of lower Preorder prices is to entice consumers to pre purchase as to gauge how much product to get. I would assume as a retailer that you would want the least amount of over stock possible.

    But when you raise the price on a preorder when you just sold 2 of the same figures then there is a problem. NO THE WORLD'S ECONOMY DID NOT CRUMBLE IN A MONTH.

    I'm not even annoyed at the cash grab. Supply and demand. When demand is high prices increase. That's just a fact of life. What annoys me is people making excuses for those companies doing the cash grab. Just call it for what it is and if it doesn't bother you, great. But stop justifying it with baseless arguements.
     
  15. Matty

    Matty @StayingInTheBox Veteran

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    Thanks for your explanation. Makes sense.
     
  16. Gligamesh51

    Gligamesh51 @ThatGuyNeedaHam

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    As far as retail is concerned, I don't necessarily mind a price hike. I know the market is all over the place, and pricing stuff is way beyond my control, so I try to keep a level-headed mind about all this. For deluxe TFs, I'll go as high at $12.99. And thats it. Voyagers also follow my "rule of 2" and can go as high as $22.99. I believe this attitude is mostly from my ROTF days, however it has changed since the DotM stuff has been cheaper for me to acquire. Yet now that I have more TJ Maxx and Marshalls in close enough distance I may just buy mainline stuff there if it becomes an issue. Seeing Lugnut for $9.99 at my TJ Maxx is crazy. Currently Hasbro isn't holding my interest with their TFs, so I am one of those who discovered 3rd party, and now wants that more!

    I too saw a price hike for the Causality Insecticons, and wonder what was up. I originally pre-ordered Thundershread from BBTS to add to my current PoL, but didn't pre-order Stormbomb. Since I am now very interested in these guys I waited to see BBTS get Storm in stock, so I could continue processing orders with BBTS. Yet i grew impatient, and decided to order Storm from Toy Arena, another sponsor of this site. Best part? No price hike. Even as I type this, he still is in-stock for $47.99, the BBTS original price. I also trust Toy Arena since I've bought stuff from them on ebay (mostly gunpla) and have had no issue with their service.

    Am I mad with BBTS? No. Will I order from them again? Of course. I also am aware that BBTS does overprice on some items. I remember seeing the Target HA Leadfoot on the front page for $59.99. At the time, guess what? He was sold out. I bought him from Target for $29.99. Sure I could have even waited for clearance, but ehh, I had the cash at the time. It says something for a toy like that to be doubled in price and then sold out on BBTS. Whatever the reason, BBTS can get away with over charging. Right now he is back in stock there, so I guess those who really want him for $60 can get him. If thats what you want to pay, fine, but not me.

    I think the best thing to do right now, especially for online buys is to just shop around. There is a reason why there is a sponsor bar up top for this website filled with various sellers!
     
  17. exomega255

    exomega255 Emerald Green

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    dunno how BBTS handles it. Its all speculation at that point. We can say "based on how this similar sized company handles it, BBTS MIGHT have handled it that way", that's all.

    As for Takara stuff, I can't be certain. Also, BBTS does more than just Takara. There are a lot of other big ticket items from Japan that are made in Japan.

    Bottom line is, it's a point that isn't too well support in both perspective, so it should be taken into account with a grain of salt. A huge grain.
     
  18. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    All is to be taken with a huge grain of course. I mean BBTS can be run really poorly for all we know and we the consumer pay the jacked up price to make up for their mistakes. That won't be the first or last company that this happens for.

    But my point is if done right and intelligently they can pay like $3000 on shipping for huge container of goods for a singular location. Even multiple ports and pick up don't drastically increase these costs.

    There are full companies that do this for you and work with your vendors, so you don't have to hire someone yourself to do this. But who knows, maybe they were a small company who got big and still think and waste money like a small company.


    /Stands on Soap Box
    I for one appreciate this back and forth. It is better then just throwing around oh its the yen. Oh you know the price of gas. Oh this, oh that. I look at these thread as breaking that down and showing just because something is assumed doesn't make it so. There is more to the truth. Having different business experience helps you see it better and not just take the open argueements.

    It's like looking at Pharmaceutical, Oil and Stock companies and saying, no those guys don't make profits, lets look at R&D and so on. They make minimal profits. If you listened to that general statement you would ignore the underlying gains and such. Unfortunately we are screwed when it comes to this.

    My point is, people, let's shop around. Let's give business to the smaller guys. Let's build up those companies. It is the fact that we keep going to these big stores/companies that screwed up the worlds economy in the first place. Stop giving business off of POL when you may still be able to save with out it. Let's just be more demanding consumers.

    Realistically to me, we act like Plastic crack heads. We go to our most known vendor for our fix. We shrug our shoulders when prices go up and say, well what can I do. There are things that can be done. We just need enough people to do it.
    /Steps off Soap Box
     
  19. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    Where is this magic $3000 shipping you speak of?

    As far as many board members have told me, a single Hercules bot costs $20 more, above the costs of shipping to an Asian retailer, to ship to BBTS.

    For $3000 they can only get 150 figures shipped and we all know they got more than that.


    *in case you missed it..that there is sarcasm*
     
  20. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Allow me to inject somethin' here:

    I understand why initial Masterpieces are bloody expensive... but the myriad of re-paints don't need to be.