Okay, let's compare Cybertron mode Lugnut to Earth Mode Lugnut:


For starters, Lugnut got a WHOLE lot more angular in the sholders when he made the switch. The window-looking side parts of his chest became actually split halves of the bomber (along with the foward guns moving from the rear of the head to the split foward cockpit halves), his forearms have become much rounder compared to their former rectangle selves (along with changing colors to look more bomb-like), and the Decepticon symbol changed location from the sholder to the chest.

If you say THAT isn't proof of the differences between cybertron and earth alt. modes reflected in the robot, just suttle ones (which they are clearly not), you're implying that the whole robot should change its base look so drastically that it's a case of Wasp -> Waspinator scale of change, and that simply does not happen under normal circumstances.

Obviously the alt. modes are pre-selected by the design team and the cybertron modes from those, but it's more of a cheat in the way the story moves that's happened since G1. If Transformers had to choose something similar to their cybertronic alt. modes and had to go searching for it, do you realize just how friggin long that would take? In Animated, the Autobots have to engage that monster, so the convinence that compatible alt. modes just happen to be at the scene allows them to quickly enter the fray as opposed to spending hours looking for similar alt. modes while the monster destroys Detroit. It is a bit of a stretch to consider all TF's just happen to stumble upon a vehicle that they can scan for their alt. mode perfectly, but considering that it's a series about Alien robots from a totally robotic world that have the ability to blend into daily life on Earth by becoming cars, trucks, etc. while they fight a civil war, the ease of how they find their alt. modes is kind of ignored for the sake of moving the story along.

 

No, they're really not.

There are kibble changes, but aside from that, they are the same basic shape, the same faces, the same coloring. The differences are in earthian accessories, such as tires, windshields, etc. with a small number of differences in armor design.

Neither Cybertron mode, nor Earth mode gives you any indication one way or another as to what the extent of their alt mode changes were from one planet to the next.

Mathius

 

I don't agree with you one bit. Looking at either character without the head I would still clearly know that was Lugnut. The changes are NOT major. Hell, if you changed the colors I would still say, "Oh.. that looks like Lugnutz character model." How many times did we see this done with generic characters in Energon or Armada? Did you have trouble identifying the character models even with color changes or slight alterations?

Not long at all.

Sari: Bumblebee, were you a car on cybertron?
Bumblebee: No, the computer picked one of your earth vehicles that most closely matched my cybertronian form.

OR:

Sari, Bumblebee, were you a car on cybertron?
Bumblebee: No, we transformers can alter our appearance to whatever planet we're on.

Not hard at all.

Mathius

 

So you're saying that the point we're trying to make isnt valid because the characters, although in different forms, still look like the same characters?

That doesnt actually defeat our point, that's just ignoring it.

Blitzwing clearly has tank tread legs, cannons and wings in his cybertronian robot mode. So he was already a triple changer. Yes, it still looks like blitzwing, because it's f'ing blitzwing.

 

I didn't say it wasn't valid. If you can't read and comprehend then don't argue with me.

I said it wasn't RELEVANT. Because it has nothing to do with MY argument, which is what you were clearly trying to dispute.

Their cybertronian forms doesn't negate the fact that we know nothing about the scanning process transformers go through when they reach another planet, nor do we know how they choose their alt modes, NOR do we know that it's impossible for every transformer to choose to be a triple changer.

In FACT, Jim's post if you chose to follow the unproduced 4th season canon, suggests that any transformer CAN become a triple changer if they undergo a certain process that they apparently intended to go into.

Mathius

 

yeah, if they undergo a dangerous, experimental process that only Blackarachnia knows about. No one was debating that. But that process needs to be undergone in order to become a triple changer, and that process was done to Blitzwing before he got to earth. It's what made him insane.

 

That wasn't the point. YOU said that the changes between the alt. modes weren't reflected in the robot mode. Lugnut is a clear example of the effect a different alt. mode has on the robot mode considering the entire upper body gets more angular. It's not a question about not knowing who the character is (Hell, this is ANIMATED, it's painfully easy to figure out who's who by their body style unless it's Bumblebee or Starscream's base design being used).

Right. And Bumblebee's Earth mode totally looked like this (Bulkhead's alt. mode looks hardly the same as his Earth mode either):

While I did have to use a picture of Wasp's alt. mode, that was the same as Bumblebee's alt. mode, and that looks like a car to me. Nothing anywhere close to Fanzone's car, but something like a car nonetheless.

 

That IS the point. The effects are minimal. You can't tell me that the changes in Blitzwing's cybertron mode proved without a doubt one way or another that he was a triple changer before he came to earth because the cybertronian robot forms don't prove one way or another what they turn into or how many transformations they can have. I gave a perfect example with bumblebee.

Go read the obscure transformer list and try to figure out what some of those guys transform into. You can't because there is no logical pattern to follow. The robot mode doesn't prove a thing.

I didn't say a word about altmodes at all. I don't even know why you're bringing them up. Clearly the cybertron and earth altmodes are significantly different.

Mathius

 

Which AGAIN, means nothing compared to my original argument. You still can't prove that this is the only way they can become triple changers.

Stop wasting my time just because you don't like my point of view.

Mathius

 

In the TFA: The Arrival comic book, issue 1, which is written by Marty Isenberg and set in-continuity with the TV series, Blitzwing is acknowledged as a triple changer before he and Lugnut have come to Earth.

While Blitzwing is speaking at Megatron's "funeral" on New Kaon after he has plummeted to Earth and the Decepticons presume he has died, there is a caption that says "Blitzwing: Decepticon Triple Changer."

For whatever that's worth.

 

Here's a screenshot from Lost and Found, where Blitzy is still in his Cybertron form:

Now, he's clearly got treads for legs and two cannons coming out of his back, what the hell else could he turn into other than a tank? But, throw in the fact that all the Decepticons (minus Blackarachnia because she's ex-Autobot) that were on the Nemesis could fly and that Blitzwing clearly has wings on his back, it's pretty evident he has a winged alt. mode in addition to his tank mode.

As for not being able to prove that what Blitzwing went through was the only way to become a triple changer, I bring up the case of Lockdown. If he's so crazy about getting upgrades, wouldn't it be logical that if there was some safe way of getting the triple changer upgrade he'd have killed people for it already? He's smart enough to know it's not worth going insane for, but the power of two alt. modes without being batshit insane would be invaluable for a 'bot in his profession.

 

You can't prove it isn't. It's the only explanation in the entire animated universe. You're ignoring everything we tell you.

and godotislate just proved that blitzwing was a triple changer prior to his arrival on earth. What an awesome first post. The Arrival comics are 100% canon.

 

I don't see how this can even be argued. The creators, writers, and fiction already dictate Blitzwing is a triple changer rebuilt by BA after some battle and thus went insane. The process makes them crazy for whatever reason, but Megatron would be able to overcome it.

 

He's saying it can be argued because he chooses to ignore parts of the fiction, and what everyone involved in the creation of TFA has always said about Blitzwing.

Yeah.

 

clearly, logic has been kicked to the curb

 

Well if he's ignoring fiction then he has nothing to argue.


Seriously, why are you in this thread about the extended canon of Marauder Megatron and the well documented Triple Changer effects if you pretend they don't exist? Just curious.

Anyway, I think this thread is done about Megs. Maybe we should open another topic to argue about Blitzwing?

 

May I suggest that you (and everyone else) remembers that there are different and equally valid points of view?

At any rate, the evidence that Blitzwing was a triple changer before making it to Earth is all there. You just need to know which supplementary materials to look in. As the Almanac and the Arrival Miniseries were produced in association with the writers and creators of the show, they can be considered canonical.

 

Yeah, because nothing you've said so far has been right. At least the other guy is providing pictures and facts. Everything YOU say is wrong.

For example: "It's the only explanation in the entire animated universe." FALSE. These stories are FICTION. That means if season 4 ran and they said Blitzwing was created by the process that Black Arachnia used on him, they could still turn around and say Alpha Trion created an autobot Triple Changer using a safer process.

Except that is the comic continuum, NOT the cartoon. QUIT WASTING MY TIME.

Are you seriously arguing against me without even knowing what I said? You're sitting here asking what I said and then saying I'm wrong after reading what someone else told you I said? My God.

It's real simple. TF Animated ended after season 3. Therefore, whatever was INTENDED for season 4, did NOT happen. There was no season 4.

It's that simple.

Furthermore, there's NO evidence to support that the amount of kibble on a figure proves what they can turn into, or how many forms they can achieve.

There is NO proof that there is only one way to become a triple changer.

There is NO information about the autobot's scanning process to say that any TF couldn't attempt to scan a second vehicle. Hell, the autobots and decepticons didn't even use the same scanning technology in the animated series. The autobots entered a chamber on the ship and the decepticons used their internal scanners.

Therefore given all of that, even if you choose to agree that Blitzwing went insane from the process, there's no reason to believe everyone who goes through the process will become insane.

Mathius

 

No, that's what's driving me batty. They're trying to prove things that we have no information on by making assumptions based on the way things have happened before. There's some famous quote somewhere about it being poor logic to assume events will always happen the same when different people are involved.

Mathius

 

Megatron didnt, but since to you almanac two is fiction, we got no proof. there is evidence and proof, but if you refuse to accept expanded fiction of the comics and the almanacs then its pointless discussing this.