Triple Changer upgrade's effects on Animated Megatron

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Logos Minor, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. jms98

    jms98 Active Member

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    I wrote the book in question.

    Random Blitzwing, one of his three personalities.


    No, but she would have been shown rebuilding Blitzwing (in flashback) into a triple changer, as it says in the book.


    Well, in this case, of course, it HAS been officially published, in the Almanac. I was just delving into the reasons WHY it was published.


    Nothing you wrote is offensive, and you can do whatever you like with your own personal canon, regardless of what the writer of the Almanac or the writer of the episode intended. Hell, you could throw out all of season three and make your own version and it wouldn't offend me. That's what creative people do.

    Now, mind you, I don't think that you and I agree on what the word 'retcon' means, but that's not a huge tragedy in the grand scheme of things.

    -JimS
     
  2. Mathius Maximus

    Mathius Maximus Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing unclear about the dialog:

    <lugnut chooses his alt mode>
    <blitzwing looks over the vehicles>
    face1: I will choose this fighter jet.
    face 2: No! The assault tank!
    face1: Jet!
    face2: Tank!
    face1: The Jet!
    face2: Tank!
    face1: Jet!
    face2: Tank!
    face3: OOhoo! Why not scan both!?

    <police arrive, a purple/tan fighter jet sits in line>
    fanzone: Hey, someone wanna tell me how something that big can just DISAPPEAR!?

    <scene cuts out>

    We're not talking about animation or technical errors, we're talking about adding part to a story that wasn't there.
    I haven't read the book, I'm just following the conversation.

    True, but it was not published in the ORIGINAL media, which is what I was getting at. It was never added as a cartoon episode, it was added in a completely different media form, years later.

    I just wanted to make sure, because I'm a fairly blunt and impatient individual. For me it's not about deviating from the creators, it's has a lot to do with licensing and it all started with the whole repurposed character thing, which I probably shouldn't get into because last time it go the thread locked. It also has a lot to do with how certain information is presented. It's nice to have extra information about characters and such, but a fan shouldn't be expected to do research to know about a character, so if someone came to me and said I was "wrong" because I said triple changing didn't make blitzwing insane (not knowing about your information that came later), I think that would upset me.

    You don't have to agree with me, that's quite ok. You obviously feel that because it was the creator's original intent that it isn't a retcon and all he did was clarify on something. I feel differently. I see it as the original media was published without the information, which was added later.

    Mathius
     
  3. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    We're talking about something that was Isenberg's full intent being clarified, where the person who wrote that part's dialogue didnt get it right, or it just wasn't executed clear enough.
     
  4. Mathius Maximus

    Mathius Maximus Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't change what I said. We're not talking about an animation error or a technical error. You made it sound like I was saying we should just accept everything that's thrown at us. Some things are obviously errors. But the Lost and Found episode was very complete as is. The development of why Blitzwing was insane was all background stuff made clear later and not in the original media.

    Mathius
     
  5. jms98

    jms98 Active Member

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    Well, almost. It's not JUST about Marty's intent. I feel that we were presented with an ambiguous situation that I clarified, which isn't the same as a retroactive change. If Blitzwing had said something completely unambiguous like "I didn't know we could have two alt modes before" after scanning both of them, then it really would have been a retcon. Instead, we had dialogue that COULD suggested that he was acquiring this new ability now, but doesn't NECESSARILY suggest this. After all, if he was indeed a triple changer already, and he scanned in only one alt mode, presumably the other one would still have remained.

    However, I think you'll find the rest of the canon (unsurprisingly) supports Mr. Isenberg's view that he had been a triple changer for some time already. Neither Blitzwing nor Starscream nor Megatron expresses any surprise that he has two alternate modes when they find out. The episode Megatron Rising Part II clearly draws a connection between his insanity and his alt modes. And, indeed, in Transform and Roll Out, the pilot episode, his cybertronian design already has alt mode kibble for both a tank and a jet. Plus, of course, if it was that easy to acquire an extra mode, one would think that more bots would have done so.

    Once again, though, no offense taken. Despite all of what I wrote above (and in the Almanacs), it doesn't bother me in the slightest if, in your mind/worldview/personal canon/fanfiction/whatever, Blitzwing became a triple changer at that very moment.

    -JimS
     
  6. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

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    I personally don't consider the allspark animated allmanacs as canon towards the animated cartoon/toy line.

    reasons: (1) it wasn't written by the guys who wrote & produced the animated cartoon series. it was written by a 3rd party free lancer person.
    (2) it wasn't written by any takara or hasbro employees who helped create the animated toys & cartoon series.
    (3)it wasn't written before or during the animated cartoon series was on TV. It was written years later.

    at best I consider it a fanfiction type book
     
  7. Tigermegatron

    Tigermegatron Banned

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    Jim,there wasn't any animated season 4 cartoon series. so in essence that flashback scene never existed. it was a mere idea written on a piece of paper.which could have changed or got tweaked/nixed had season 4 been given the green light.

    anyways like I replied days ago & others have noted. animated blitzwing wasn't a tripple changer until he decided to scan two alt modes while on earth in that early season one animated episode.
     
  8. hupla

    hupla Well-Known Member

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    Except that he was. Maybe in your FANon he wasnt but in the Canon he was.
    Well martty and derrick approved of everything in the book, and it was approved by hasbro and published by IDW, so no matter what you may THINK it is, it is canon. Hell I like to pretend the Dawn of futures past isnt canon but I have to admit that it is. Sadly.
     
  9. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    if it was THAT easy, every single transformer in the show would have done it.
     
  10. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    He switches personality so he has the voice of Beast Wars Megatron.
     
  11. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    This is relevant to my interests.
     
  12. Mathius Maximus

    Mathius Maximus Well-Known Member

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    I will re-watch these episodes with this new information in mind and see what I think but... and I will respond to you here along with what the other poster said:

    THAT is sortof my point. Not in ANY continuity have we been given any CLEAR information in the cartoon about how the transformers transformation works. If you go back to G1, teletran 1 scans earth vehicles, and WHALA, the transformers internal circuitry has been altered and they can transform into the new vehicle. The same has been done for every continuity since.

    How do we KNOW that no one else can do it? Maybe any transformer can be a triple changer?

    Jim points out above that Blitzwing already has the kibble for two modes in his cybertronian body, but we have NEVER seen a transformer's body altered, only their vehicle mode. Perceptor doesn't appear to have the kibble to turn into a tank/canon, but he DOES. (the only redeeming quality he has I think. Most kids don't want to play with a microscope)

    Did Wheel Jack and Bumblebee have the parts to realistically transform into their cybertronian vehicles? Did their cybertronian vehicles alter when they got to earth? Negative, ghostrider.

    As far as I can remember, not a single transformer's cybertronian robot form has been different from their earth form, and yet they can all transform into whatever they want as far as we know. Does their "scanning" process, whether it be internally or by teletran 1 just pick a vehicle that they're capable of transforming into?

    We don't know enough about it for your statements (or Jim's) to be proof of everything. Marty may say he intended it that way, but I ask this Jim:

    You said you watched the original episode believing it was the way the rest of us did, and Marty later told you that no, he had always been a triple changer.... Does that change anything? Did he come up with this while writing that episode and if so, why not include it? To me, it's much more likely he thought of it later down the road, which is why it was supposed to be included in a season 4 that didn't air.

    Either way, it did NOT air, and therefore I choose not to include it.

    Mathius
     
  13. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Um, EVERY TFA character has distinctly different cybertronian robot modes that reflect their cybertronian alt modes, which change when they get earth modes.
     
  14. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    Also, because this actually relates to the topic at hand:


    From Derrick's Formspring: Did you have any hand in designing maruader megatron? And if so, what inspired his design and why did you give him a triple personality? | Formspring
     
  15. Mathius Maximus

    Mathius Maximus Well-Known Member

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    Really? Show me the difference between their robot earth mode and their robot cybertronian mode. I've seen a few subtle changes added like OP's windshield, but nothing major. Doesn't seem to really matter anyways. It doesn't change anything I said. There's still no explanation of how their altmodes are chosen. Hasbro or the people who created the cartoons chose to simplify things by making the cybertronian vehicles similar to the earth vehicles to make them semi-believable, but what's the storyline reason for this? Can they only alter their forms so much? Do they deliberately pick a vehicle they can fit into? Are they really limited to one? We don't know the answers to these questions.

    I don't see the relevance of what you're arguing.

    Mathius
     
  16. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    No. Open your eyes, and watch the show. I dont think you've been paying nearly as much attention as you want us to think you have, if you're saying that. Hell, just look at the cybertronian mode toys of prime, ratchet, and megatron.
    I'm sure you're the only one.

    Look, one of the points made was that blitzwing's cybertronian robot mode model ALREADY had triple changer kibble on it. You're saying he didnt have a unique cybertronian character model, but he did. EVERYONE did.

    and really, if being a triple changer was as easy as just picking two alt modes, every single character would have done it in the show. but they didnt, because its not that easy.
     
  17. Logos Minor

    Logos Minor Enabler TFW2005 Supporter

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    Well, thanks Tiller, now we have an answer.
     
  18. TranstechCat

    TranstechCat Cybernetic Chimpanzee

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    Holy crap dude. Are you that blind?

    Other than superficial similarities in the placement of kibble and color scheme (and I guess their heads technically), their Cybertronian designs are totally different than their Earth designs.
     
  19. General Magnus

    General Magnus Da Custodes of the Emprah

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    Yeah. Bullkhead or example is a vehicle with tank threads instead of wheels. I remember a pic with some of Animated´s alt modes.
     
  20. Mathius Maximus

    Mathius Maximus Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let me rephrase what I said. There are no MAJOR differences. You make it sound as if they looked totally different on cybertron. That's bs. Bumblebee lost his wheels and got shoulder pads. Prime got a chest plate. Bulkhead got treads on his arms. These aren't major changes.

    What you're suggesting is that the differences in their cybertron modes vs. their alt modes is enough to prove they could never be triple changers or that blitzwing was already a triple changer. That has nothing to do with anything, nor are the changes major enough to prove anything.

    Take bumblebee for example. If I look at his cybertronian mode, I could see him turning into a hovercraft, similar to the 1st MOMTE episode of G1 where he road into Iacon with Wheeljack, or I could see his shoulders rotating up, his forearms connecting, his feet coming together and him becoming some kind of rocket. There is NO proof anywhere that the robot form dictates their appearance in alt mode, or how many altmodes they have.

    My point was we know NOTHING about the procedure involved in the translation between cybertron mode and earth mode. All we know is a scan is done and somehow they are able to shift forms. We don't know what the extent of that is, why the vehicle mode was chosen, or in a nutshell, what they are capable of. Whatever crap you're spouting about cybertronian robot modes being different because they don't have earth tires is irrelevant to the point I was making.

    No matter how much you argue or try to spin it elsewhere, it's a fact.

    No, that's not what I'm saying. You're only looking at specifics and you're ignoring the fact that they are generally the same character. It's not like they retain their head and the rest of their body alters. The changes are all minor. . Windshields, car tires, etc.

    I never said it was easy, the point I was making is that there has NEVER been anything in ANY continuity explaining the process or proving that any transformer couldn't do it.

    Are you saying that from a fictional standpoint you think Blitzwing was capable of more than what OP or Megatron or Ultra Magnus were capable of?

    Maybe there's another reason they don't want to be triple changers. Clearly if the results were 100% positive then all later transformers would have been created this way.

    Mathius