Travis Knight Comments On Why Bumblebee Left Charlie

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Music, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    Oh, no. He's talking about me blocking CobraKai. I knew it was going nowhere and names were already hurled by others, so it was time to nip it in the bud before it got out of hand. Foxxy and I have had issues in the past. So, don't think his post was about you, it wasn't. He was calling me out as he has in the past because he's still angry about our previous communications (all of which involved a moderator stepping in because he took it to PM and got outrageously over the line.)

    Aside from that, I agree with your assessment Burnout. It's been really spot on, all this time.
     
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  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    Ah, ok lol, it just looked like he was talking about me as cobra quoted me at the top of the page.

    And thanks, I appreciate it!
     
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  3. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    Thank you!! And usually when the insults start, it’s because they are unable to effectively articulate what they want to say, or are unable to provide sufficient evidence to prove a point. Then they resort to name calling to either cope with the fact that someone disagrees but can’t provide an effective rebuttal hence “he’s delusional”, or they make themselves feel better in an attempt to undermine intelligence hence “he’s a fool”.
    After that utterly fantastic homage to G1 in the opening act (which wasn’t even the original opening) I genuinely felt that the movie went into a downward spiral, and a big chunk of that has to do with Charlie and the mediocre if not poor writing in general.

    Well I feel with the Cybertron opening, even with his lost memory, he wouldn’t cower in fear. He wouldn’t default into kill mode, but he wouldn’t cower.
    Now with the original opening found in the deleted scenes, him cowering makes sense. He wasn’t established as a competent soldier, but a fugitive on the run being hunted by humans. He expressed his feelings towards humans before running. But this isn’t the opening they went with which made the character inconsistent and is another flaw in the writing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2019
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  4. WarLordFoxxy

    WarLordFoxxy Banned

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    Dude I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the other guy who I'm not gonna mention to prevent a fight. The guy flat out said he'd add CobraKai to his blocklist.

    :lol :lol  Good times bro.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2019
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  5. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Yep. Also, no humans have ever been to alien planets and met alien life. The movie shows the Transformers are able to visit other planets and the way the Decepticons acted with the humans indicates they're comfortable with other alien life. I imagine a TF with amnesia should be as comfortable with alien life as a human with amnesia is with animal life.
    That's because Bumblebee focused on their friendship while the other movies focused on the missions. I'm sure Bee and Sam hung out off camera. The much maligned scene to end the first movie would indicate such.
     
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  6. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    What I think @CobraKai is trying to say (very badly) is that he prefers "cool action scenes and badass robots" over so-called "boring" talky bits. Which is alright; some people do and they shouldn't be judged for it.

    However, I don't share his opinion; when I was ten, I probably would have hated Bumblebee, because I was sick of the talky scenes in the first Transformers and wanted to see more things going boom and robots punching each other.

    Conversely, when I watched TLK, I was checking my watch during the "cool" action scenes, because those don't excite me any more. It's because steady exposure to the MCU from the age of 11 onwards, has taught me that it's not just the cool action scenes that make a film enjoyable.

    If you look at, say, Black Panther, all the best bits are not when T'Challa is kicking ass, it's when the film is expressing its musings on power, the cycle of revenge and identity.

    The action scenes are cool, yes, but they are secondary to the real meat of the film; the plot and character development. That's what most big-budget blockbusters fail to appreciate.
     
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  7. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...no. I think he'd just flat out say it and word it just like that. He went above and beyond with the whole Sam VS Charlie thing. I'd actually have given him more credit if he had laid it out like "I prefer cool action scenes and badass robots!" and you're right THAT is alright and no one should be judged for it. It's his argument FOR/AGAINST that's the problem. He wrote a pretty lengthy whine about Charlie and then added "oh, btw, I love robot action scenes" more or less. That's the biggest problem. After reading all of his posts, such a defense, now, would be incredibly disingenuous.

    That said, one who prefers Bumblebee shouldn't be judged for it, either. (Just sayin'...)

    Honestly, I was 27 when the movie came out. I saw it several times in the theater and in the moment it was great because they were alive for the first time. Looking back, now, I remember sitting there at the moments just before Optimus and company come to Earth and I realize NOW that I was bored, but the first time(s) I was just getting antsy (so I thought) and was overly excited (wasn't) and it's odd how hindsight really IS 20/20. We think we have it all figured out, in that moment, and we don't. Not really. Now, is it possible people loved it, period? Absolutely. Kids grew up with it, adults looking for a popcorn flick thought it was great, so there are absolute fans, but a lot of us don't look back as fondly because we realize now, that we were caught up in the rush, then.

    Doggone. You makin' me feel OLD, chief. O L D lol While the ending of Infinity War is utterly pointless because it's much ado about nothing, it does give End Game and other films that tie into it more depth and a chance to actually make the audience FEEL. I give them credit for that. I've yet to truly experience that in a Transformers film, prior to Bumblebee. Was it too talky at points? Sure, but it was moving. The only time I ever got a tear in my eye or a chill down my spine was when Optimus transforms for the first time, the whole "he's really there!" moment after a generation of waiting and his speech at the end of TLK. A bit heavy-handed, but genuinely kind and uplifting. (Or maybe I was moved to tears because the movie was finally over.)

    Exactly. And when they did have the action scenes, they equaled to the talking scenes/development. People came to see a Marvel film, they got one, they also got one that explored family dynamics, doing one's people wrong and actually (finally) learning from it and how we can help the world if we don't close ourselves off. (I see both sides of the argument, but T'Challa was right.) It wasn't just that he was who he was, which is important in today's world, it was that he was actually right.
     
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  8. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

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    "Cool action" is important, it is most definitely important to make sure conflict and blood-pumping adrenaline gets a share of scenes in an action film, but like, you're only going to care about action that is going on if you're invested in the characters involved. I don't care how good something looks if the person that might die or triumph is a boring piece of shit husk like current Optimus (not just the bay movies, the character is crap in general in cartoons and stuff for more than a decade now) or Cade or Shia Labeouf. That's why I'd have a hard time calling the Bay movies succesful action flicks at large. As fancy and chaotic as they can get there is just no one on-screen that I actualy care about.

    Die Hard would not be 1/4 of the film it is if it didn't have a lead character so charming.
     
  9. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    THANK YOU! The Hellboy reboot is going through a tough time right now. Audiences aren't turning out as they hoped, the critics are unkind towards it and a good number of people who've seen it said that it's needlessly gory to the point that even gorehounds will recognize it's gore for the sake of an R and not actually well done. The story doesn't work and aside from David Harbor, nothing is worth seeing in the film. It also doesn't help that the film is edited horribly, as well. (Like one scene doesn't mesh with the other, like it was cut and spliced together and they said: "Here you go!"

    It's proof that you need capable hands steering the ship, that starts with the story.
     
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  10. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    I’m saying it badly because that’s not what I’m saying. This movie actually has cool action and badass robots. No, what I’m trying to say is the boring talky bits have no bearing as to why Bumblebee is there. What does her dad have to do with Bumblebee being on earth and in her life? Why does she have a fear of diving? How is that relevant to the story as a whole? Nothing is connected. Maybe if Skybyte flew out of the water as she was diving and crushed her dad or something, I’d understand, but no. It feels inconsistent, like the writer wrote Charlie’s story first and then asked, “now how do I fit Bumblebee in here?”

    And the awesome Cybertron scene they added later, actually hurt the movie because it made the character of Bumblebee inconsistent. If they stayed with the original opening of Bee being mercilessly hunted by Sector 7, then him being scared of a human would have made sense. Him blasting away at Sector 7 in uncontrollable rage would have been the result of a deeper feeling of resentment against Sector 7, as opposed to just seeing his friend tossed to the ground.

    I see through Charlie’s tears and Bumblebee’s puppy dog eyes. I see through the generic phoned in melodrama, and I see this movie being just as nonsensical and sloppy as The Last Knight.
     
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  11. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    Yeah, it's like a repeat of the original TF movie idea except in that one there was a reason Sam was involved.
     
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  12. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

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    Yeah, stupid and contrived ancient aliens bullshit that has hung around the series neck like an Albatross made of dead wasps and elephant spunk.
     
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  13. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    Where is the ❤️ when you need it? !
     
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  14. DeadLocke

    DeadLocke Well-Known Member

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    It might be 'generic,' but how is that any worse then Sam's?

    This to me shows the nucleus of the glaring flaw in your argument.

    Sam's trying to get the girl and trying to get laid is textbook generic plot for a male protagonist. However, the difference is that because Charlie is female, the plot is going to have more of what a female protagonist will go through as opposed to a male. Charlie is going to be going through plot points (such as catty mean girls) that would more naturally apply to a female character, that many men would have not have as much experience with. You can't relate to it, so the plot becomes boring and 'generic.' However, in contrast for the female audience, I'm sure the Sam stuff was likely just as generic and boring to sit through. It involved stuff they couldn't relate to, even as enough of the male audience lapped it up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  15. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    Sam went from generic and typical to becoming a person where his responsibilities became bigger than his trivial life problems. His destiny being interwoven with the Autobots long before his existence. He was willing to sacrifice his life to save mankind and the Autobots.

    Charlie’s problems has nothing to do with the Transformers. It just happens to have a giant robot in it. If she were male, he’d still have all the bulletpoints for generic, blandly written character. This has nothing to do with sex, even if people are trying to make so. It’s just mediocre writing people are trying aggrandize as exceptional.

    Her story can be told with Alf. Alf loses his memory. She loses her dad. They find and help each other heal. One emotionally, one physically. Alf gets his memory back and she’s now happy. She can now finish her dad’s corvette without his proverbial ghost haunting her and Alf goes back to Melmack with a few cats in his bag. And also Optimus Prime will be there all of a sudden with no rhyme or reason at all, but with his G1 trailer.
     
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  16. hthrun

    hthrun Show accuracy's overrated

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    I'm so tired of these types of posts that don't even try to be constructive better rather just spew a bunch of filth. I'm going to set you to ignore.
     
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  17. drbeakman

    drbeakman Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for saying this! Also it's worth mentioning that compared to a lot of female lead media you find these days, Bumblebee is exceptionally agenda-free and focuses on storytelling and character growth instead. I don't think enough people are giving the script enough credit for that.

    While it might seem "generic" for you guys, for me it's really nice to see a girl just be a girl and go through girl things free of political underpinnings. This sort of thing I think should be encouraged, because it might lead to better characters in media overall and less unrealistic Mary Sue's.

    Yes, alongside the big responsibility of having Sam's (unrealistically) smoking hot girlfriends multimillionaire boss want to have sex with her and coping with that by smashing his car repeatedly like a psychopath... loved that part!

    Okay, so Sam is an example of fantastic character growth. Is he what you'd call an example of modern masculinity? If so, I stand corrected, the Bayverse has done a great job of demonstrating how mentally deranged a lot of men have become in the pursuit of success and dominance.

    Through a series random macguffins, you TOO can earn the right to become a hero, with no other redeemable qualities!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2019
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  18. Decepticon Miner

    Decepticon Miner Banned

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    This whole sentence made me giggle.

    Of course the word “gEnErIc!” Is being used.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2019
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  19. CobraKai

    CobraKai Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that this movie has no political agenda and it’s something criminally overlooked. You’re absolutely right, she is just a girl being a girl and it is nice, but I still feel like her story isn’t integrated into the transformers lore effectively. I felt like I was watching 2 separate movies that were just mixed together. Like oil and water, they may be mixed together, but the oil would never fully assimilate into the water.

    What I liked about Sam was that his and the Transformers destiny we’re interwoven. (I actually legitimately like it when he gets so frustrated that he flips out.) He got pulled into the war and was ready to die to protect the all spark without question. He felt responsible for Optimus’ death, and would stop at nothing to bring him back. He was willing to venture into a city overrun with Decepticons to save his girlfriend (a situation that would have more gravitas if it were still Makaela) from what is essentially a human Decepticon. His problems were Transformers related. Charlie gave us a taste of that only by the 3rd act.

    The only characters that genuinely made me pay attention were Shatter and Dropkick. They actually had some kind of purpose on earth.
     
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  20. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Number One in Boogieland Moderator

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    Please stay on topic and cool it with the name calling.
     
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