Travis Knight Comments On Why Bumblebee Left Charlie

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Music, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. NemesisPrime12

    NemesisPrime12 Well-Known Member

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    She could just call an Uber driver
     
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  2. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yeah. I'd forgotten about that. But I get the impression the Bayverse writers sometimes found dialogue 'challenging'. And the last thing they need was audiences bringing up comparisons with K.I.T.T.
     
  3. MattDallas

    MattDallas Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case, what type of films would be have ended up with if they completely left Michael Bay to it!
    Quite a scary thought...
     
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  4. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    I think Travis Knight would have technically been in charge of Bumblebee, but he would have had to deal with more 'advice' from the likes of Boniventura and the Paramount higher ups. Also, I imagine since Michael Bay was still involved with Bumblebee, Knight might have been expected to heed more of his 'suggestions' as well. But the bloody nose from the Last Knight probably at least partly responsible for keeping that to a minimum.

    We would have had dark angry WWII veteran Bumblebee who hates humanity, more hostile kitchen appliances (seriously, why are all these 'newborn' Bayverse Transformers always so hostile?), frozen Megatron in Sector 7's basement (and Dropkick and Shatter could have scored a hell of a hat-trick by tracking down Optimus Prime, Megatron and the Allspark.), an even dumber Sector 7 ('We've got these big, unknown, slightly scary alien robots. Where do we put them? The basement? Nah, that room's taken. I know, let's stash them amongst our weapons.). Also, the 'Cons would probably have wiped out a few human towns out of boredom.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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  5. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Well shoot- she could totall whip out her 1987 iPhone and call Uber or Lyft.
    :D 
    Funny thing about that is that this movie took place a year after Knight Rider’s cancellation.
     
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  6. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    See, you can't make that comparison, because the film immediately following Infinity War still has Thanos. That's like saying WWII was over after V-E day, even though it sure as hell wasn't. There's still people to fight.

    AoE doesn't have Decepticons, which leaves the Autobots with nobody to really fight - oh sure, they bring in Lockdown, but he's just some asshole doing his fucking job and it takes a whole film for the Autobots to defeat one dude whereas back in DOTM a handful of them were able to dismantle about half the Decepticon army before getting overwhelmed. The majority of AoE is simply padding to try and explain why they have the Autobots around and they can't actually fight anybody, because there's actually so little in the way for them to fight.

    You clearly did not watch Beast Wars, because Autobots Vs. Decepticons is the sole reason why it happened in-universe. G1 Megatron planted a message on the Golden Disc, which BW Megatron finds and thus goes back in time to murder G1 Optimus Prime before the Great War restarts on Earth in 1984, thus ensuring G1 Megatron would win the Autobots vs Decepticon conflict.

    And while true about Rescue Bots itself not being about Autobots vs. Decepticons, it certainly doesn't paint any illusions about the conflict not playing a key if subtle part. Cybertron's dead, obviously, but more tellingly is the scene right after the cold open when Prime tells the RB's about the assignment he's picked for them. Chase and Heatwave vocally acknowledge the idea that they will be basically rolled into the remaining Autobot forces fighting the Decepticons ('happy to join the battle, sir' doesn't exactly leave much room for interpetation), but then Prime informs them that they're better suited for something other than combat. It's more a side story than major series incarnation, especially since officially it's supposed to be happening alongside Prime according to Hasbro.

    Yes, but Star Wars really ended up being more Empire vs Alliance/Rebelion/Whatever, since you can't have a Star Wars story without a fight against the space facists. The first thing Disney even did with the Star Wars license was immediately resurrect the Empire as the First Order. Personally, they should have just gone straight for an adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy which is far superior, but given how hard Disney is crashing that franchise into the ground I'm kinda glad they didn't at this point.

    Because that rule does not exist. The entire point of a secret identity is to protect the superhero - the last thing you want are villains learning your name and address and breaking into your home in the middle of the night to kill you while you're sleeping. For dudes like Spiderman (literally a high school student) or Daredevil (a blind lawyer), that kind of secrecy and protection is necessary.

    But hell, most of the Avengers in the current movie continuity don't really have secret identities. Captain America was a highly promoted WWII hero who was an actual US Army captain. Tony Stark reveals he's Iron Man at a press conference at the end of the first film. Thor gets recognized on the streets of New York in a hoodie and does selfies because he doesn't have an alter Ego, being technically a superhuman alien that calls down lightning. Hawkeye being a super hero is literally his day job and Black Widow likewise. Black Panther is the king of Wakanda and he takes his mask off in public view in Winter Soldier - seriously, it's more common knowledge that Wakanda has a fucking superhero for a king than it is that Wakanda is the most advanced country on Earth. And Scott Lang starts Ant Man and the Wasp under house arrest for what he did as Ant Man in Civil War. Hulk is probably the only one with a secret identity as Bruce Banner...but there it actually is more Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde in that Hulk is kind of a separate entity from Banner given his refusal to even come out after the beginning of Infinity War.

    You really think two minutes is going to change my opinion of a film? Especially one that is so goddamn pointless in the bigger picture because the Creators ultimately do not fucking matter given the direction of the plot thanks to TLK? Seriously, if you removed the idea that Quintessa was supposedly a Creator, but instead was just this random-ass alien bitch, it really doesn't change a thing given how poorly she is explained.

    No, but it means we have a toyline for children that will forever be associated with a film that legit had an argument over legalized underage sex.

    You know why nobody fucking talks about Kiss Players? Generally the same reason why the Romeo and Juliet card scene is typically brought up a lot as a key problem with AoE.

    Sure, whatever makes you happy.

    The irony, of course, being that Cullen himself was K.A.R.R. both in the original Knight Rider and the shitty reboot (where K.A.R.R. was one of the few good things albeit done with sketchy cheap CGI).

    The real problem with the writing is that they couldn't bring themselves to understand the robots as being more or less humanlike in mannerisms and behaviors. All they had to do was take a self-distancing approach ala the concept of the Nacirema and do a ton of cultural clash and amusing misunderstandings. Even Armada understood this from the outset (Hot Shot on first seeing the kids fistbump each other: "You're hitting your fists together like you're fighting each other...except you're happy about it?")
     
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  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    Think of it like this: if Bee never left Charlie, we wouldn't have had the downright perfect imagery of her in the rear view mirror with the words "objects in mirror are closer than they appear."

    Way to choose to take an obviously obtuse, clearly pedantic statement of frustration in clear response to a downright ludicrous idea as insulting, when context clearly shows I only said it because somebody suggested the terrible idea of Charlie and Memo being Leo's parents.

    Maybe this statement will make you feel better: TF fans don't understand context or conversational nuance. :D 
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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  8. Capperclawed

    Capperclawed ~~ Head-ON! ~~

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    Yea this is something im totally content with. After so many Bayformers movies, Its not a bad idea to show that, hey, we can tell a good live action transformers story before turning it into series of movies. Show the audience that you know how to make a proper narrative to sell the first movie and get people hooked. I think self contained is a good idea for that reason alone.
     
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  9. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that might have made them seem more like actual characters. :) 

    But would you have trusted them to pull it off? Actually, now that I think about it, perhaps we're better off not witnessing the kind of stuff the Bayverse writers seemed to find 'funny' happening within the enclosed confines of a vehicle (mode).:( 
     
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  10. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    It really is something to behold how much of a mental block the writers continuously had in terms of not being able to treat the cars as characters. It's almost like they forgot the cars were not supposed to be cars but physical representations of a sapient alien species that rearranged their bodies into perfect replicas of cars.

    My example was more trying to develop the Autobots (and maybe Decepticons) by having them compare and contrast their cultures. Deconstruction of society isn't hard - take Christmas for example, it's a holiday where humans kill a plant, drag it in their homes, decorate a dying organism with shiny baubles, and then spend way too much time wrapping things up in attractive paper only to utterly destroy all that work on Christmas Day. At the same time, this fat man in a red suit (who apparently is superhuman because he lives at the polar region at the top of the world and employs a slave elf army to make toys identical to those mass produced in factories around the world already), flies around on a ground-based platform pulled by reindeer (one of whom may or may not inexplicably have a bioilluminecent nose), and commits breaking an entering crimes on literally every home in the world to stuff shit into people's socks and somehow, this is not regarded as a crime whereas anybody else who enters a home without permission would be brought up on charges, since NORAD outright tracks this criminal every year.

    Humanity is utterly ridiculous and it's a font for great humor and conversation filler when taking it all out of context, as the Autobots would when comparing it to their own cultural backgrounds.

    EDIT: To prove my point, here's an excerpt from Rescue Bots on how Chase basically explains the last week of November:

    "Definitely, Sir. The humans gave thanks for the ritual stuffing of a creature called a turkey, then purchased goods at discount on the darkest day of the week."
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
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  11. Hanzkaz

    Hanzkaz Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I got what you meant. In the hands of other writers, or directors like Knight, I'd be all for it (well, that guy already gets it). But that sort of thing seems a bit too subtle (imo) for the Bayverse which seems to focus more on caricatures and toilet humour.

    Sorry, I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, it's exactly the kind of thing I wanted. But after five movies, I wouldn't put it past the makers of another Bayverse film to take your suggestion and manage to turn it into something I find repellent (I mean, I never imagined back in the day, that I'd look forward to seeing Autobots getting killed off. That's the Bayverse for you).
     
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  12. electronic456

    electronic456 Well-Known Member

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    Cause it still has Thanos?

    Okay, when did Marvel history dictate that he's necessary since the beginning? Now that Disney has 20th Century Fox, they might as well throw in someone like Galactus if they want to.

    The Autobot-Decepticon conflict is still the secondary component to both Beast Wars and Rescue Bots. I know you disagree here because you hate the movie regardless... But the Autobot-Deception war still forms a basis for the premise of AOE. Like why the Transformers are being hunted down in the first place and replaced?

    I'm pretty sure you're not against the idea of putting the conflict aside once in a while.

    You know, it be like if we saw Scorpion and Sub-Zero fight in Mortal Kombat over and OVER and over again. And then ultimately you have to ask, "Why can't these two just put aside their problems?"

    How could you say the rule does not exist then give me examples of when it does?

    FYI, Spider-Man isn't always a high school kid in everything. Don't say that and ignore the other iterations like Spider-Man PS4 and Into the Spiderverse.

    Also too bad for Daredevil in S3 of the Netflix show and the comics when Bullseye does the thing.

    Yeah, we're not going to get the original premise of the Civil War comic in a while or probably never.

    It hasn't switched my opinion but I like the response.

    Also this is BvS you're responding to by the way.

    Dirty stuff is associated with a lot of things lately. Marvel and DC have their share too.

    And whatever you do to make yourself loathsome.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  13. MV95

    MV95 @marlinfan1995 Veteran

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    No thanks. Sounds like Terminator 3.

    Sarah Connor? The hero and lead in the first two films? Oh yeah, she's dead now.
     
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  14. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    It's wonderful to see a director who actually cares about making the film as well as what's in it.

    Bay cared about explosions and pretty things, everything else took a distant backseat. More or less a broke down mini-van with a third-row seating option and it was falling apart. Put the eye candy in the driver and passenger seat, the okay family members in the middle where the tinted window hides enough but still lets you see some and finally the ugly ones behind the quarter panel, hiding a multitude of sins all riding in a rust bucket about to die on the side of the road, but Dad decides there's just enough gas to drive the whole dang thing off the cliff as a last hurrah.

    Knight looked at it as though you could fix the van with TLC, love all the passengers inside equally, and help them get home in one piece.
     
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  15. Rquiem

    Rquiem Dutchbot

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    Spike, not Sam. Plus Sams both parents still lived.
    And my idea only would work if Bumblebee is a reboot.

    ;) 
     
  16. Nathanoraptor

    Nathanoraptor Well-Known Member

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    Let's also make the point that Travis Knight has wrecked vans before; his debut directorial effort was Kubo and the Two Strings, which is not a good movie.
     
  17. SilverOptimus

    SilverOptimus Movie News Monster Moderator News Staff

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    Kubo may not have been financially successful but it is one of the highest acclaimed stop motion animation movies of all time. It's a critical darling. Audience loved it. People who disliked is around 3% mark and no higher.
     
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  18. TFXProtector

    TFXProtector Well-Known Member

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    That's YOUR opinion. It's not shared by the masses, but by a select few. There's a difference between one movie having its detractors and an entire franchise having many voices, not just one or some, detracting.

    This.

    People, myself included in the past, seem to think the world revolves around them or their mindset sharing group, and it's just not the case and will end in sadness for those who hope otherwise.

    I will never understand why people are so heartbroken over these movies. I get that it all ended on a cliffhanger, that sucks (it really does...Bay screwed people badly) but it's done and Bay himself doesn't even want to come back. That's a sign.
     
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  19. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout Dukeup Nukhead

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    What I don't get is how people act like there NEEDS to be a sixth film when TLK pretty much was a complete ending - all you have to do is ignore the name drop from a scene that was even officially admitted to have been a completely last minute addition no less and it really isn't anything but a mostly clean ending as could be expected of a bayverse film.
     
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  20. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Be strong enough to be gentle

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    You really ought to do some digging before making claims like these in the future.
     
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