A) Yes, that's why they had those over inflated prices, try again.
B) LOL!!!!
C) Funny, those were the figures warming the shelves, that proves my statement. You didn't see Optimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Jazz, and Prowl warming them...

Maybe, but tthat doesn't mean they were canned, it was explained they may be back after the movie was over, just like Classics might.

Your proof to the fact they won't support them is where again???

And the 200 dollar Barbie dolls in TRU in the kids section are targeted at them too then huh? Yup, I see your point  Sorry, but simply placing it in the kiddy section doesn't immediately mean marketed towards them exclusively. I've worked in TRU, I think I may have a better perspective on who buys what than you do. I could be wrong as I don't know what you do or where you work, but I know what my conversations with people half way across Canada have told me thanks, I'll stick with that. Having studied business helps too.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

How about simple logic. You think every TF fan in the world is going to flock to the USA for Botcon every year???? Fat chance, many people barely want to go there to begin with let alone go for something they love. Not only that, but travelling is something MOST people have to save a very long time to do. I know DOZENS of people in my own city that collect TFs that don't go to conventions or buy every comic, or every DVD. DOZENS!!!! And I live in a city with a population of around 60,000, imagine what that number bounces to in a city like New York or Toronto where we are talking MILLIONS. Logic, that's how I know.

A slight exaggeration, but not without merit. There have been people collecting TFs (who were adults in 84) until now from the beginning.

 

I love this concept of prime, this is very workable and at the same time very cool  .

 

Two excellent examples of that: Beast Wars and Armada
Beast Wars was nearly universally reviled upon its release, and to this day there are "beast haters". But kids jumped on the line, and it can largley be pointed as the line that saved the Transformers franchise.

Fans bemoaned the "playskool" and "pokebot" Armada line, but to date, I believe it is still considered the biggest success since the 80s. It is because of this success we even got Alternators at all.

In regards to 20th Prime, the fact Hasbro hasn't pursued the line pretty much shows that it wasn't that great a seller in both releases. Some areas it did well, some it didn't, I've seen both results myself.

 

You do know that dozens (I'll be generous and go with 4 dozen, or 48) out of 60,000 is something like .08 percent of the population. I'm sorry, but taking from an estimated 300,000,000 estimated US population, that's like, 240,000 fans. And, if my math is right, if they all saw it 10 times at a $10 ticket price, that's only 24 million dollars.

The Transformers movie cost about four times that just to make, again not to market and distribute. So, again, they can't support the movie alone. And likely they can't support the line, when you consider how much of their total Transformer product budget goes not to new stuff from Hasbro, but secondary market price increase for older products and international products...the numbers just don't work in our favor as a line supportin' bunch.

So, yay kids! Keep on helpin' us out.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing.

I like the robot modes for transtech but I can't get into the trippy vehicle modes.

The movie bots remind me a lot of transtech but with realistic alt-modes, which for me, equals win!

 

I was going to say, 20th Prime sold like shit around here, I once saw 30 of them at a Walmart a year after it was initially released.

 

how'd they go from something freakin' awesome looking to the crap that is Fatimus Prime....

damn, i can't stand concepts solely because they make it look so damn good but the final product is no where near the concept and most look like crap (same goes with car comcepts)

 

I wasn't nitpicking, but now I will. Was not the exact same figure. Wasn't the same pricepoint either. While we're at it, where on 20th prime's box does it say "Masterpiece" ?


The markedown to $15 was a pretty universal thing. It happened lots of places. There were lots of threads about it here on the boards.

And now you're nitpicking. "A casual fan is still a fan". Just because you don't know of any 'non fans' that went to see x-men, does not mean that they don't exist. I knew nothing about xmen before the movies, other then they were the subject of a comic book. Non of my family/friends did either.

The fact of the matter is, there is not enough transfans to make or break the movie. Simple fact. It's been stated many times, many places, by people with much more knowledge then you or I.

 

I know of a walmart, in northern WI, that still had the original 20th primes as of last summer. Full price though, they refused to mark them down.

 

Ok first of all the US is not the only country in the world, the sooner some of you down there realize that, the better off you're going to be. By the way, the number is more than 48 here, I know a lot more than 4 dozen fans, and those are only the ones I know of.

But again, using your own numbers 24 million TIMES 10 because as Don Murphy so put it, even if they went 10 times it still wouldn't be enough. Last time I checked 24 Billion is a shitload of cash.

You guys can argue this till you're blue but evidence points in the direction I have laid out. The signs are sio obvious that the fans are important it's insane for them to simply ignore us out of hand. Whether they want to admit it to us or not. I'm also gonna tell ya something, Aaron Archer and Hasbro have no true way of knowing who buys Transformers, they can only estimate a guess.

I know that most of the transformers in my area are not bought by children or parents, they are bought by collectors, as are most Toys in TRU here. Children get toys a few times each year, birthdays, easter, christmas. Collectors buy all year round. We're the ones that go into the stores and buy one or two of each figure on the wall, not the kiddies or their mommies.

 

Wow.

Well, I've seen TONS of 20th Primes around at my local TRU.

I'm still waiting for the inevitable markdown.

I waited for them to do that with Primus, and got one that way.

And if I find it, I may have to investigate the 20$ CAD Cyb. Metroplex I heard about.

 

It didn't have to say Masterpiece for it to be that and you know it, you were trying to be a smart ass about it. 20th Prime and MP-01 are the same freaking toy aside from a few small paint apps and the size of the smokestacks.

And I didn't say just because I don't know any non X-Men Fans that went to see the movie there weren't any. I said for a producer to imply that the number 1 or 2 best selling comic book in the world didn't have enough fans to make the movie if they all went to see it was total BS.

You also don't know what I know and to say that you are simply right is not true at all. I have backed up everything I said with some semblance of knowledge and educated guessing, you have not.

 

My 24 million number was already after the 10 times each. 240,000 x $10 a ticket= $2,400,000. 2.4 million x 10 tickets a fan = 24 million. Where'd you get 24 billion from? This movie will not make 24 billion. At all. Ever. The all time winner for worldwide box office in history is 1.8 billion from Titanic. Now, I'm not saying Transformers won't touch that record, or maybe even break it, but beat it by more than twelve times? Not gonna happen.

And I understand that America's not the only country around, I don't mean to suggest that we're the be all, end all of Transformers box office. But I wanted to work from as high a population as possible to show how even inflated numbers aren't in the fan's favor. If you want to work from Canada's 31 million, about ten times less than America, the fans have even less power.

You know more than 48 fans? How many more? Twice that amount? Even if I double my math, $48 million is still a miserable under-performance for a film like this, and that's assuming everyone you know sees it 10 times! 10 times! What are the odds of that, seriously? Most will see it once, a bunch may see it 2-4 times. A few may make it up to ten, but my numbers are way exaggerated, and still don't give the fans alone control of this film's success.

 

Don't have much to add except agreeing that Kids are Hasbro's first priority, no matter how much we fans think we are.

No Hasbro can't tell the exact amount of sales by children or adults, but even the layman can get a general idea based on the sales of collector-related merchandise...

A) Reissues
B) Alternators
C) 20th Prime

ALL shelf warmers here, and from what I've gathered at other locations based on threads here on the boards, it seems pretty universal. You can argue that shitty distribution hurt the Alts and that characters in the re-issue line weren't those clamored after by fans, but it still boils down to the fact that Hasbro sees whats selling and like it or hate it, it's the stuff aimed at kids. Actually The "Classics" DVD edition 20th Prime did even worse around here...it was on sale literally a month after it was initially released. I'm not going to argue percentages or marketing or anything since I don't know anything about it. I'm just looking at the kiddie lines which sell well and the Reissues which sat on shelves for months on end.

 

Semantics. Fact is, it's not a "Masterpiece" figure, as hasbro doesn't have a masterpiece line.

Yeah, you did say that. Go back and read it.


[qoute]
You also don't know what I know and to say that you are simply right is not true at all. I have backed up everything I said with some semblance of knowledge and educated guessing, you have not.[/QUOTE]

You're right, I don't know what you know. And you have no clue what I know. And you haven't backed anything up with any kind of factual information. I don't need to do any 'educated guessing'. All my info has come from Archer himself, when he posted on these boards. I think he knows a bit more about the business then you.  

 

Dude, I never said the movie would make 24 billion, I said if each fan went 10 times based on your 24 million it would be 24 billion. Anyway, I'm done argueing this with you, we've totally derailed the thread and I've proven my point, more than once.

 

Semantics or not, they are still the same thing.

Uhhh, no I didn't. I said I didn't know any who went. You go back and read it.

That's assuming a great deal and I don't believe you. Either way, I proved my point and I'm done with argueing it. You don't think there's enough fans, fine, I do.

 

That wasn't what the debate was about. I said they do think about us when they release stuff and that there were more than enough of us to carry a line on and they know that.

Funny how three people say something is a shelf warmer and the rest of us are supposed to believe it. Many of the items you call shelfwarmers, I have seen sold out across Canada and from what I have heard on various message boards, across the US too.

Very few TF fans even post on these types of boards, most of the fans I know, don't come here or to any other message board. Too simply assume just because a small amount of us do and a small amount of us go to Botcon and other cons, that we are the only fans is crap.

Anyway, like I told the other two above, I'm done argueing this, I made my point.

 

They didn't. They went from that to Armada Optimus Prime, who was actually pretty awesome-looking. That illustration is clearly experimenting with the Minicon concept, with both the trailer and Prime himself functioning as playsets for the Minicons. Obviously that particular design either didn't get used, or it went through a LOT of changes. Some of those features probably got moved to Armada Red Alert. Personally, I'm glad that the actual Armada Prime kept the playset functions to his trailer.

 

you clearly don't know what "Semantics" means, as you totally missed the point I was making.

Yes, you did. You implied it by saying that you didn't know any. Otherwise, why even say it?

You haven't proved a thing. Like I said, i'll believe hasbro over you any day.