Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by pie125, May 21, 2017.
Hasbro, Make a Decepticon Movie Spin Off
I would love a Decepticon spin-off. But what I want most, is a Megatron spin-off.
I'm sooo in for this!
The point is: people don't realize that Autobots and Decepticons aren't the only Transformers in the whole universe.
lol and that's wrong. Hasbro has to sell the characters as one or the other. The entire franchise is founded upon this binary fact.
Not so true at all.
In AOE, the main villain is Lockdown, and he isn't a Decepticon, the toys maybe consider him as a Decepticon, but the movie doesn't, and this is a fact.
The Knights of Cybertron aren't Autobots, the toys show that symbol on the packagings, but this doesn't change that they aren't Autobots in the movie.
Even the original Primes aren't Autobots.
The Creators/Quintessons? They aren't Decepticons, but they are the main villains of The Last Knight and very known characters.
Unicron isn't a Decepticon, but he is one of the most iconic villains in the various incarnations.
Autobots and Decepticons are the basics of the Transformers, they are in every incarnation, but this doesn't mean that they will not expand the mythology of the Transformers, showing things before Autobots and Decepticons, characters that aren't necessarly to do this these two factions.
And that's their fault, a movie shouldn't have to hold your hand and explain everything when only the bare minimum of thought is required. People were already told the transformers have been on Earth since the dawn of human civilization, they should know this doesn't refer to optimus or his Autobots. Asking your audiences to connect a few dots isn't too much to ask and if they refuse to for whatever reason or refuse to remember past movies then their confusion is on them.
People refuse to acknowledge ROTF because they don't like it as such they ask for answers they were already given because they don't like the ones they were given, well too bad those events happened and are part of the timeline. If audiences don't remember past movies then not getting the continuity is on them. It's not too much to ask your audience to put in a little effort which apparently a lot of people think they shouldn't have to, this is not acceptable.
Exactly. Taking in consideration that this movie will connect all the previous ones, and we have already clear elements from the trailers that suggest this fact, I think people will realize how much they are wrong, and we have saw only a little piece of what this movie will show to us.
What they expect is always the same, inconsistent, idiotic and ignorant Transformers movie, because "Michael Bay is the director".
Looking on how he is the reason why there is this big new project, started in 2015, I would a little consider the true reasons why we had those inconsistencies in the previous sequels. None noticed that RotF, leaving aside its giant problems, was enormously connected to the first movie? There is no contradiction regarding the AllSpark, Megatron, Archibald Witwicky or the Sector 7. And why this? Because the writers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman, who worked on the first movie, were continuining their job, helped by the new entry, Ehren Kruger. Maybe few know this, but one of the ideas from the original script was that the Primes destroyed the stars, through the Sun Harvester, with the intention to recharge the AllSpark, because the idea was that the Cube didn't have an infinite power. The AllSpark came to Earth, attracted by that machine.
Unfortunatly, the 2007 Writers strike ruined everything.
And why DotM and AoE are so inconsistents with the previous two movies? Because Erhen Kruger didn't gave a fuck to the previous movies. He wanted to built his own stories, without any care about the past. And yet, everything could've have work if only there were some references and a better writing in the explanations (regarding the reason why the Ark landed on the Moon in TF3 and the whole Decepticon plan / the mystery of the Creators and the relation between Optimus and the Knights).
Surely, Bay isn't a careful person, probably he puts too faith to the writers he works with, but, from what it seems, clearly he realized how they couldn't continue to built the movies "one by one", as separated films. I have great faith in the Writers Room, it is a different way to built the movies, more conscious of the source material.
Read my post again. I said Hasbro has to sell the characters as one of the two, and in that it means even Lockdown, poster child of 'no alignment' is in fact a Decepticon, which he's been since Animated.
You gonna tell me that isn't a giant purple decepticon badge on that car? That what I'm seeing isn't what I 'should' be believing?
To further prove my point - name one Decepticon Lockdown fights. Oh no wait, you can't.
Wrong again - even the original movie lore isn't in agreement with you here. Megatron founded the Decepticons under the influence of the Fallen to rebel against the pre-existing Autobots. The first film even defines that 'Autobots' is shorthand for 'Autonomous roBotic organisms from the Planet Cybertron' so it's even more of that situation here.
But every one of those knights is packaged as an Autobot. Otherwise, wouldn't it make more sense to blend the Autobots and Decepticons to make it more even?
There's only one of those fuckers this time around, who doesn't even have five fucking faces. And she's not getting a toy, either, or so was the case last I checked.
HE'S LITTERALLY BEEN A DECEPTICON SINCE 1986!
Who do Megatron and the others get rebuilt into? DECPETICONS!
What side is Unicron sold as in Armada and Energon and Cybertron? DECEPTICON! And these series even had his face as the mini-con logo so this was a concious choice!
What side is he on with the Prime toy? DECEPTICON! He's a Japan-only release and they specifically wrote that part in English to make it clear he is a Decepticon!
And yet...why is it you insist that despite officially being recognized as only one or the other by Hasbro in the toylines, that somehow Hasbro doesn't mean exactly what they say?
Personally a story should be told well enough in such a way that an audience shouldn't have to worry about making sense out of it.
For example, lets just say the allspark isn't mentioned at all in TF5. Then what?
How would you defend that?
Connecting a few dots is fine. But these movies are so clearly and so obviously not planned out. I don't see how anyone could argue against it.
These types of movies are sequel machines, yet they treated the first one as a one-off.. and worse yet, the death of megatron was practically pointless.
I mean, first transformers are on earth because the allspark landed there.. next they're on earth because they want to destroy the sun and drain its energy.. then they're on earth because the plan all along was to use humans to rebuild earth.. then the creators had been to earth to turn shit into metal.
You don't find it a bit ridiculous at all?
They waited until the 4th movie to develop an overarching plot?.. and when they did that, they decided to create an entirely new reason for them being there.
Where was everyone else when megatron was attempting to take over the world in movie 1? Surely that would've affected the plans of whatever will happen in 5. Or where were they when the fallen wanted to basically destroy the planet by getting rid of the sun?
After all of this time there's been zero talk about knights, yet now that's the total focus.. there are legends about knights, supposedly prime is one of them, yet there's no mention of it until movie 4?
See, this is the kind of shit that happens when a majority of the time is spent focusing on non-transformer problems, relationships, and conversations.
Let's take the marvel movies.. there's one overarching story.. thanos is employing people to find or round up the infinity stones. And there are also single movies focusing on specific characters. We see none of that with the transformers movies.
The only real thing they mimic from G1 is that each movie is basically its own self contained story.
I'm all for re-writing history and using historical events as covers for some type of transformers involvement, but the way they're doing isn't very cohesive.
Every time a new movie comes, I think, well maybe THIS TIME they'll focus on the robots and develop a story that doesn't need to be connected to previous movies by people who can recite every line from them. (Yes that's an exaggeration)
Transformers 5 just seems like it'll be more of the same. Humans with robot bodyguards. Hell, the person who has explained most of what we know in the trailers is human, and the trailers are when they seem to really show off the robots.
And on an unrelated note.. what did crosshairs contribute to the 3rd act in age of extinction?
Transformers: The Last Knight - Mission To Cybertron TRU Exclusive Subline Legion Class Combiner Infernocus and Quintessa disagrees with you.
People say the TF movies are stand alone because the villain is dead at the end and their plan foiled, not how the events and arcs relate. The matrix returns in DOTM Megatron's injuries carry over, The world broadcast sticks, Galloway's arc about wanting the Autobots leave is paid off. The space bridge was foreshadowed as was Sentinel. The knights weren't introduced before because they didn't need to be introducing new ideas as a story progresses is how you told a story before Marvel brainwashed society. A main narrative isn't built around a big villain behind everything or the battle against them, it's built around the character arcs and events and how they effect both the characters and world.
Transformers narrative isn't the creators or the knights those are just plot points introduced to enhance and expand on the main narrative. The narrative is the relationship and linked history between the two species and how it builds to a war between them which is why humans get focus, it's not just about the robots it's a story about both species. "Two species at war, one flesh one metal, and now two worlds colliding and only one of them survives." If you watch the human/transformer arc there is a clear narrative we clearly build to the exile, we clearly build to AOE, we clearly build to them being at war. If you look at the history we clearly built to them shaping each others history, that's what the knights, creators, dynasty, Allspark, Space race all relate to that idea.
The narrative is about both species, this should be obvious by now. It's about how these two species these two worlds born through each other shaped each others history and how this linked history brought them at a crossroads leading into an all out war between them. I don't know about you but that's a more intriguing narrative than gathering the infinity stones.
(PS Megatron confirms that the Allspark plan and harvester were the same plan. He says he failed the Fallen confirming the Fallen sent him, the fallen then says the key to their victory is in the Allspark within Sam's mind. This all but confirms the harvester, Matrix and allspark were the same plan, once again and I get tired of saying this pay attention)
I don't think BB movie will contradict TFTM07.
Clearly BB is in earth at the start of the 1st film.
And BB is on earth TO SCOUT as one of his missions, still looking for the Allspark whereabouts.
TFs are on earth long time ago as presented by S7. Hence, WWI Planes and Model T-Ford car.
To be precised, the Primes sacrificing their life to trapped The Fallen in the Pyramids.
Not only that "The Creators" somehow left remnants or traces of "Transformium" from the Dinosaur Age.
Now TFs meddling in the medieval age and WWI or WWII hence, "Tank BB"
Considering Optimus scanned a flatnose truck in AOE, why not BB scan a VW?
I know Hasbro can pull this off. They need to market some toys and merchandise out from the BB film.
So TWO to THREE Altmodes for BB is a must that is set in 80's.
VW Beetle and a Camaro.
The question is... Which version of the Camaro?
2nd Generation Camaro (from the TFTM07 that will be a new mold for the toy) or the 3rd Generation Camaro(which is a lot cool looking)?
Chevrolet Camaro - Wikipedia
I wonder: how they would explain the origins of the Transformers without making references to the AllSpark and original Primes?
I'm sure that they will not ignore these two facts, because this movie will interconnect all the previous ones, we will also see the history of the Primes and the origins of the civil war between Autobots and Decepticons (plus the backstories of Optimus and Megatron before the war), and the Writers Room worked to expand the current (confused, for some cases) mythology, to create the basics for the future movies, prequels, spin-offs and sequels (and if they are elaborating an animated prequel, set on Cybertron, well, I find difficoult for them to don't show the AllSpark, for example). Erhen Kruger didn't pay attention to Transformers 1 and Transformers 2, these new writers aren't idiots.
But I still find funny the possibility (a very weak one) to don't see any reference to the AllSpark. How things would work? What kind of explanation people would use to make things fit?
Seriously? That tiny static PoS is a transforming toy now?
Kruger did pay attention to the first 2 movies considering he pays off elements set up by them. The creator arm looks like the dynasty complete with hole going through hand now what did Epps say god made us in his image, who made him. The creators arm looks like the dynasty, hm coincidence probably not, it's a pay off to a line people likely forgot. Galloway says the Autobots won't share their advancement in weaponry optimus says humans having that technology would bring more harm than good and what do you know AOE pays this off proving that is most definitely true, another pay off to a single line which an entire story arc was crafted around. Megatron's injury carries over from Revenge, the matrix carries over from Revenge, The world broadcast carries over from Revenge. Sector seven is mentioned in DOTM in fact Neil Armstrong is shown to be a sector 7. Sentinel mentions being a prime and he even refers to them being gods which certainly fits their portrayal in ROTF.
Dark clearly shows Kruger remembers the matrix but does optimus really need to use it every film to remind audiences it exists. Age references the Allspark with one line, "you think you were born no you were built" why do people think this line exists to specifically point out that what we believed wasn't true. We believed the transformers were born through the life energy of the Allspark but Lockdown says no they were built. It's quick simple and too the point, you think you were born, boom Allspark anyone whose seen previous movies will know what he's talking about while new comers won't be bogged down by exposition about an artifact they know nothing about, which plays no role in the current story all to satisfy fans who should know what Lockdown is saying.
The Allspark will likely not be mentioned by name in TLK, since then you have to explain what it is, why it isn't currently around and many other unnecessary things to explain something to the public that isn't really connected to the main plot. Being subtle to avoid unnecessary exposition isn't ignoring previous movies, seriously what the hell do people think Lockdown's you think you were born line was referring to, I seriously want an answer to this.
I'm sorry, but your reasoning lacks of two important considerations:
1- You talk about "arcs", but what kind of arcs are the ones where there is no exploration of the characters?
Megatron in TF3 appeared for few scenes, and the only thing he did was tearing apart Sentinel in four seconds, and being killed by an Optimus with only one in arm in two seconds. He wants to save Cybertron? Yes, it is clear from the previous movie, but there is no exploration of his character, why he became who he is now, what are his convictions, his point of view. There is no way to simpatize with him, and Megatron is a very deep and complex character. Even Darth Vader is more sympathetic and carismatic than him.
There is no exploration of the Optimus and Sentinel relationship, only few references. Sentinel becames evil as if he has always been on this way, a stupid plot twist whitout deepness. Optimus does show only a little remorse because he trusted Sentinel, but then? He only says "We will kill them all" and nothing else.
Lockdown reveales to Optimus that he was built. Why Optimus hasn't any question about this fact? He acts like he knew everything, same thing for his past as a Knight. Does he know or not who he was once?
2- The topics should be consistent between each other:
You talk about Galloway's words, but in TF4 the entire argument is regarding inventing things (or, at least, is referenced only in two or three scenes but without any importance). It was not Joshua's fault if Megatron's mind was still functional, it is Brains's fault. The true problem was that KSI used not only Decepticons corpses, but also Autobots, killed by Lockdwon and the Cementery Wind. But, at the end, it isn't important what was the point, because there is none.
The Matrix appeares in Transformers 3, but in Transformers 4 it disappeares, when it should have appeared in the scene where Optimus talkes to Cade about the sparks, because his chest was opened, in the exact point where the Matrix was holded in TF3, and we are talking about one of the most important items in the Transformers franchise.
When in TF3, there is the whole explanation about the Deceptions plan, Megatron says that he and Sentinel decided to meet on Earth to use the human race and its resources to rebuilt Cybertron. But the AllSpark wasn't already the key to rebuilt it? This ancient and powerful object that created the Transformers and Cybertron? That Megatron followed until both arrived on Earth, twenty-thousand years ago? And in RoTF, didn't The Fallen want to destroy our Sun with that machine, that Megatron saw as the new hope for the cybertronian race?
There is an entire Decepticons army on the Moon, but in the previous movie Megatron sent an entire army all around the world to find Sam, and some other Decepticons were already on Earth during those two years between the events of the first and the second movie.
Sentinels says that the Primes were seen as gods? Ok, but we saw something about the cybertronian culture? We don't know nothing about the
Transformers, only that they have a war and some secrets on our planet. Without any flash-back or reference, we don't know nothing about Optimus past as Sentinel's disciple.
The Creators built the Transformers and they didn't know this? So why the Autobots seem to know about them and explain clearly what appeaned 65 milion years ago to the Dinosaurs?
They believed that the AllSpark created Cybertron and its inabitants. Maybe someone believed differently? Maybe, but there is no exploration of the effects that this revelation has on the Autobots. Maybe they found out the truth through some datas in the Knights Temenos, or symbols, or anything that would give to them any information.
Only in the end Optiums flies away searching for these Creators, to have answers. And strangely it seems that he doesn't know who they are, but he knows well the fact that they created them.
It is the 21s century, people doesn't like inconsistencies. These are inconsistencies.
How will not they talk about the AllSpark, if we are going to see the origins of Cybertron and the beggining of the war between Autobots and Decepticons? And the Primes? We are going to see the history of the Primes in this movie. And The Fallen? We will learn Megatron's past before the war and how he started it. Same thing regarding Optimus's past, and so we will see or have some references about Sentinel Prime.
We see the Ark in the trailers, crushed by a destroyed Cybertron. We have the Witwicky motto said by the King Arthur and his knights. We will learn why Transformers always came on Earth. Bumblebee faught in WWII, and his spin-off will have few robots than TLK, because is set in the 80s and he was searching for the AllSpark. Epps and Simmons will be in this movie. We will learn why Lennox wasn't helping the Autobots in the 4th movie.
This is continuity, not some vague references.
I didn't know there were two "Ultrons" in these boards. I hope you guys don't combine like Infernocus and attack me. JK
At the end of the day nobody here has seen the movie ( presumably) but as the movies continue to be made more questions are developed. The new writers had a lot on their table in my opinion. I'm no expert but I hope 3-4 weeks was enough time to put together what they promised they would do.
I feel like the new movie has a lot of expectations going for it and it would be a shame if the events from the first movie are ignored or changed in some way.
Bay's getting his Hollywood hand-print thing in LA today.
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