Transformers Sins of the Wreckers #4

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by SavedTabs, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    +This^

    Roberts's character writing tends to gravitate towards the caricature quite often and it shows in his attemps at Prowl, even if there are fewer of them than Barber's.

    Table-flippin was indeed fun and giggles, but it never really progressed behind that. Prowl was simply given a role of a guest star jerk in a sitcom.

    Barber's Prowl, on the other hand, tends to be a narrow-minded and fairly one-dimensional fanatic unable to admit his wrongs even if people around him are dying. For the cause!

    In the end I can't even tell which of these two is more annoying, because they both fall short by being repetitive archetypes.
     
  2. nim

    nim Member

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    he put overlord on the lost light because chromedome was there and prowl needed him to probe overlord's memories. he tried to blackmail chromedome for the same reason. he didn't purposely start a fight, if his surprise at chromedome grabbing him is any indication. it's not only possible but probable he knows chromedome erases his memories of dead husbands and so didn't expect chromedome to know what he was talking about.

    he's certainly petty, but he doesn't have people assassinated over it and he doesn't ruin relationships for the fun of it (though i'm sure he took pleasure in the threat). if he wanted to cause trouble for chromedome and rewind, he could do it at any time. he doesn't because that's not his goal.

    when did roche's prowl ever face the consequences of his actions aside from recently in SOTW? one of the points of the series is that prowl is FINALLY facing consequences. verity and stakeout point it out in one of their conversations - she says prowl is conspicuously absent from the aequitas data, implying she knows he does things that should land him in jail, and he says prowl will get what's coming to him but this isn't the way, implying he knows prowl dodges consequences all the time.

    and roche also makes everyone hate prowl. again, this is pretty clear in SOTW.

    so one of roberts's flaws is he probably wouldn't have written prowl as being able to go toe-to-toe with optimus prime for a few minutes?

    i'm not as familiar with exrid as i'd like to be, so this isn't meant to contradict you or be confrontational, but i'm having trouble thinking of any time barber's prowl has pressed on with his plans even when people around him are dying from them. can you give any examples?
     
  3. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    *cough* Combiner Wars *cough*?

    And no regret afterwards.

    Should be enough.

    Works lovely when paired with the Overlord Fiasco under Roberts.

    And it's not even about Prowl suffering consequences (though under Barber he actually did end in prison), but about the character showing any other side to him other than being a royal exhaust hole.
     
  4. nim

    nim Member

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    right, right. combiner wars is mostly a blur to me.

    gonna have to contest this though. it's not like prowl was putting them in any more danger than he would have been putting cybertron in by keeping overlord there. he is responsible for rewind, pipes, etc specifically dying, but not for the fact that there were deaths in the first place.

    i guess it's fine to not count pre-war prowl's behavior, since the point was that prowl has changed so much since then, but you can't really ignore his backstory. roberts was the one who had prowl grow up in a strict functionist area, and his internalization of their ideals explains a lot of his current behavior and philosophy and makes him way more sympathetic and relatable to me. same with the fact that he tried to run away from the war and couldn't, and began to see it as an obligation to do what he could to help out (again, functionism).

    we also primarily see prowl, as written by roberts, through interactions with chromedome. of course that colors his portrayal. it's not inconsistent characterization (though maybe focus on aspects of his characterization that you don't like) to have someone who's usually rather calm and rational be more petty and emotional with one person in particular. i would argue it adds depth.
     
  5. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    There's nothing to contest.

    The plan was ridiculous.

    But the worst part wasn't even having Overlord on board... but that nobody save for a few people on the Lost Light knew about it. This secrecy it what caused it all go wrong and killed bots.

    Plus, there was one simple alternative to this entire venture - execute Overlord. He did deserve it and the Phase Sixer process wasn't worth risking so many lives.

    And they certainly had means of executing him, since when he was captured in LSOTW he was but a skeleton with no armor.
     
  6. Dead Metal

    Dead Metal Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting how this thread went the exact same way as the last one, started out discussing the issue, the plots and moments, how well done a certain aspect was done, then speculation about how the story will progress just to then get hung up about a character and how crap/good other writers do it.
    Last time it was Arcee and Prowl, now it's just Prowl.
     
  7. nim

    nim Member

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    i think the deciding factors were really more things that no one could have reasonably expected to be problems - namely, that overlord could break out of his harness easily at any time and that he had enough mnemosurgery training to outmaneuver chromedome - as well as something that's not prowl's fault: chromedome getting too cocky and not telling anyone he was going in.

    either way, one of the things i like about prowl is how adamant he is about not letting himself feel regret or doubt, because he knows if he does then he won't be able to do what he sees as necessary. but that's a personal preference.

    i don't think they could execute him. his endoskeleton is indestructible.
     
  8. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    I cheer when I see how Roche somewhat steers away from in SOTW.
    This being adamant and completely fanatic is what made Prowl an outright villain.
    Marvel's Punisher and Magneto had more regrets over what they have become and what they're forced to do in their internal monologue than IDW Prowl had overall.

    Endoskeleton is made of ununtrium.

    Not the cog, the brain and the spark.

    Wasn't DJD killing Phase-Sixers before?

    Hard to kill isn't indestructible.

    They did not have to rebuild him to make it worse, either.

    It's an example of a pretty dumb plan, pieced together. Though this time Prowl can share some responsibility with the ship commander.

    Or, rather, the plan was logically sound. Autobots having their own commando of Phase-Sixers would a pretty good guarantee that Cons will be kept in check after the war. Especially since Autobots don't have nearly enough maniacs to slip past the candidate selection and cause troubles.

    It's just that, in an usual for IDW Prowl "dehumanised" manner, this plan was calculated with very little concern to what can happend if it takes a wrong turn. Because "whatever it takes" to deal with Cons trumps any other concerns.
    Pretty similar how it was when Prowl finally went haywire in Combiner Wars. He believed that Starscream must be stopped because you can never trust a former Decepticon and it ended as expected.
     
  9. nim

    nim Member

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    then i guess this is a difference of opinion /shrug

    prowl said they couldn't get to his spark. i have no doubt he would have just killed overlord and given chromedome the brain if that were possible.

    the djd has ununtrium-coated weaponry, assumed access to the killswitches, and tarn's ability to make sparks explode remotely.

    agreed, but that wasn't prowl's doing.

    again, i enjoy it. and roche's prowl isn't afraid to make sacrifices either. how risky was sending a bunch of rookies into garrus-9? how risky was making perceptor, the autobots' most valued scientist, tag along with the autobots who take the most dangerous jobs, before he had any kind of ability to defend himself?

    besides, can you really blame him for not trusting someone who, up until two or so years ago, had been helping someone create an empire for four million years? someone who has proven to be as power-hungry and ruthless as starscream?
     
  10. Carnivos

    Carnivos Well-Known Member

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    I never understood why when fight Overlord no one thinks to aim for the eyes(or is it optics in this continuity?) We see in MTMTE that like humans the sockets lead directly to the brain. You could shoot him in the face if your a skilled enough marksman or wait till he's distracted, jump on his back and jam a knife/rod/small gun and into his head.
     
  11. rlmiddleton

    rlmiddleton Don’t call me a member thank you very much.

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    Well, to be fair Impactor did shoot his hook into Overlord's eye in LSOTW. Must've chafed a little but it didn't slow him down noticeably.
     
  12. Carnivos

    Carnivos Well-Known Member

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    Probably didn't go through deep enough.
     
  13. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Unutrium was written in a fairly horrible manner as a kind of a near-godmode, to be honest. Outside of the LSOTW where the Wreckers weren't really prepared for Overlord and he was fighting back.

    Marvel got both Wolverine and Ultron sporting adamantium parts and they're still defeatable and killable, Ultron even more since only his armor and skeleton are adamantium... But much of its subsystems are not, so you can punch it dead if you punch hard enough.

    If you look at it closely, a lot of parts in an ununtrium-reinforced TF should still be vulnerable enough to kill it even if its corpse stays mostly intact because of the skeleton.
     
  14. nim

    nim Member

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    yeah, ununtrium is a weird writing choice. still, it evokes a particular sort of terror when applied to someone like overlord, who kills for the fun of it. a feeling of something horrifying and dangerous that can only ever really be delayed, not stopped.

    i'd prefer if he was as logically indestructible as he is canonically. but it is what it is.
     
  15. 00raiser956

    00raiser956 Galaxy Convoy

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    So when is issue 5 supposed to be out? Is it this month or next month in June?
     
  16. Fretburn

    Fretburn We need Instrument TFs

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    Ununtrium coating the skeleton is problematic for me due to the fact that TFs really shouldn't have a skeleton as such. What with the whole drastically altering the shape and location of many, many parts of their bodies.
     
  17. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    They'd still need a skeleton of a kind because you need to attach hydraulic actuators and internal systems to something. Real life industrial "arm" robots and animatronics also have skeletons, for this very reason. They just don't look anywhere close to a human skeleton.

    Nothing prevents making parts of it double-jointed or telescopic, thus, collapsible.
     
  18. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    I actually like that honestly, it gives some humanity to him as cold and calculating as he is.

    You know you might be on to something there.

    I hope so.
     
  19. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II Banned

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    Again i have to say: i do not get the Roche hype.
    Last issue was ok but here it's one cliche after another.
    From the dying woman (from a cause that apparently touches nobody else. I know she got overexposure from Aequitas but come on: Spike and Fairborne should have at least a slight cough by now if this is a thing. Let alone the guys who pilot the seekerclones.) who blackmails a ruthless highranking official of an army of alien robots and later fights alongside him against other alien robots whining she isn't brave and is unable to match the moral integrity of a dear deceased. Pssch.
    Then we have the old "the world is a cruel cold place, why do the strong always trample the weak ?" "Because we can. Stomp" whine.
    Immediatly followed by the ever original "you pencilpushers have no balls. It takes a real hero to do what needs to be done. 'Makes completely unwaranted kill'"
    Granted that last one was in character for Impactor and again underlined the corruption and lawless rogue-culture running rampant among the Autobots even after the war, and underlines that action has to be taken against these elements, but with Optimus running the same course who will have the courage and the power.
    Prowl however was way out of character. Roche simply can't write him.
    Barber and Roberts established him as the controlfreak who has to protect the world from chaos and doesn't care what devious and amoral measures he has to take to achieve that goal. Prowl doesn't doubt because he knows he is allways right, it is a charactertrait peculiar to certain unwavering remoursless people.
    To pretend that such a person would suddenly begin to quaver in his resolve because he gets cowed into a conscience by people he is well aware are no better than he is is not mature, is not characterdevelopment. It is nonsensical and it is out of character plain and simple.
     
  20. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    Roche is the only one that does write him. IDW Prowl is 100% his baby with Roberts and Barber both trying (and never quite being able to) reach the standards that Roche set. Everything that Prowl does in MTMTE and RID is due to the singularly best Prowl story in existence from the AHM: Codas that was written by Roche with those two writers trying to expand on the fantastic character that the short story crafted.
    No, that's what Roche established him as with Roberts and Barber following his path.

    When did he quaver his resolve? Hubcap offered a legitimate argument that Prowl agreed with. And yes, it is character development for the character that is constantly having his master plans blowing up spectacularly in his face to start thinking about other options to solving problems. This entire catastrophe is because of him.