Soundwave can hear a fly sneeze and detect your BRAIN WAVES, but he can't detect Arcee. Ravage can apparently smell her, after an HOUR, but is too stupid to react appropriately. We also know that the Cons aren't -actually- disarmed because Soundwave deactivated their chips. It's just incredibly stupid, and totally smacks of a fanboyish attempt to glorify a character beyond all reason, at the expense of a bunch of other deserving characters. Badly played, Barber. Badly played....

To be fair, I don't think she's really self-righteous... she just doesn't give a shit. Dead inside, and all that. And of course, she was an Autobot before she was captured by Jhiaxus, so she might have some old loyalties and biases from those days.

    I know, right? Prowl has gone from a steely, controlled, competent puppetmaster, to a clumsy, desperate and utterly transparent functionary in over his head. And I don't buy it one bit, and I'm quickly getting tired of it. From the beginning of this series, I felt that Barber didn't get why the Roche/Roberts Prowl was great. Instead he took too many of his cues from Costa's Prowl... and Costa never knew what he was doing.

Yeah, it's pretty terrible. Especially among the Cons, where there are many powerhungry types who would love to take a shot at leadership. So instead they sit in a ruined satellite all day "plotting" and not really doing all that much.

And none of them treated like they're worth half a damn. Pretty much the entire Decepticon cast from 1984-86 is now either dead or incarcerated.

Yep, and that was dumb too. A world where any minibot with a hand-grenade can take out Shockwave like a common genericon, is a world dominated by cheap plot devices. And let's face it, bombs (and explosions in general) are almost always plot hammers for people who don't want to script actual action sequences. It's a total deux ex explodium (if that's not already a TV trope, it should be)

No kidding. I think Shockwave only went into "rage mode" in that first fight with the Dinos in Spotlight:Shockwave. I don't think he did it again in Maximum inobots, did he?

I realize that Arcee used plot-device bombs to defeat him, not her own personal super-powers, but the outcome is pretty much the same. If you want to tell a story of underdog victory, you have to taste your hero's fear and desperation, and see them win through resourcefulness and dumb luck. When a character succeeds in batting above her league and confidently succeeds against impossible odds, with almost no effort, it generally makes you hate the character. She Spiked them. And when a character Spikes someone, it's a pretty good indication of a writing failure.

QFT. Well said.

  How did you get your hands on Barber's script for RID #14?  

zmog

 

I would argue that it's more a case of bad/awkward plotting.

I don't think Barber gets even half as excited about "glorifying" a personal favorite character as we think he does, coming from our position as, well, huge fanboys.

However, there just isn't an enormous amount of overlap between hugely powerful and decently stealthy Transformers. Traditionally, Arcee is not hugely powerful, but in IDW, there's a fair argument that she is, and also is conveniently unhinged. And if Prowl doesn't have, as I said, clandestine muscle, you have to start from scratch from the RiD plotline. It means Prowl has no ability. Frankly he needs to have a good day to beat up Skywarp by himself.

If the Decepticons did not suffer some sort of huge setback this issue (one that the higher-ups have deniability form to avoid a NAIL backlash) then Starscream/Prowl would be nothing more than a conversation and Megatron would walk into town, dust off his throne, and sit in it.

In other words, Barber built up Arcee into an annoying too-powerful plot device as a side effect of needing Prowl to be able to turn the tables on the Decepticons. Different sort of flawed writing.  

I think this might be a good example of traditional comic-booky writing worsening Transformers. (As opposed to Transformers: More than Meets the Eye bettering comic books.) Part of the fun of Transformers is smacking characters who are relatively evenly matched against each other, and having fairly set and predictable power-levels. (Of course Sky Lynx and Omega Supreme are powerful! They're big, aren't they?) Whereas part of the fun of superhero comic books is coming up with a way for Batman to be awesome and crush half of the New Gods despite being "just a man."

Problem is, Spike Witwicky did not earn the ability to be Batman and, semi-obscure precedent aside, neither did Arcee.

And oh yeah, even when Batman makes it look easy, we usually see later that it was hard as fuck. It's long past time for Arcee to eat some humble pie.

 

I'm not so sure that Megatron doesn't have an uphill struggle ahead of him. Even if the Decepticons hadn't been taken out, Megatron was known by ALL Transformers as the leader of the Decepticons, and bad news in general. The Nails who left? They left because they didn't want to die fighting Megatron. I don't think it's going to be a "hard sell" to convince Nails that Megatron needs to be locked away/destroyed. Megatron would do well to stay VERY hidden until he is at least repaired. It's possible he may even want to let Starscream lead, and pull Starscream's strings from behind the scenes.

 

If Megatron's going to be doing any hiding, I don't think he's going to be doing it for long. Solicts pretty much say that

Spoiler

Megatron's going to lead the Decepticons in a revolt against Iacon's government.

It's been stated that this is the beginning of the climax to the story that's been building since issue 1--I don't believe there's going to be time for much more political schemes right away.

That said, my theory is that the war isn't necessarily going to start back up after this story--but rather, that Cybertron is going to have a new government in charge...

 

I disagree. Prowl and Skywarp are very evenly matched, except for Prowl being way smarter and way more skillful than Skywarp. Prowl is one of the top flight Autobots.

Secondly, I think that's a pretty lame excuse (if that's what it is). "Oh, Prowl needs an absurdly overpowered ninja Arcee in order to move the plot along!" What?

Where's Mirage? Why couldn't he be a stealth agent and deadly sniper? Also, why does someone need to be overpowered to perform these functions in the plot. Everything Arcee does stealth-wise could be achieved with a solid spy network. Everything she does murder-wise could be achieved with either a blunt show of force (this issue actually is a painfully obvious example), or a more judicious use of tactical force. There is quite literally no reason why ANYONE should be as blithely exalted as Arcee is currently. NOBODY should be able to walk into a room with the Cons present in this issue, and expect confidently to subdue them all... not Prime, not even Megatron.

Anyway, I'm not sure even what you're arguing in favour of... it's badly played, badly planned, badly carried out, whether it's written for robots or superheroes. It is a wholly misguided and problematic approach to writing this story and characters, and it stems from faultline cracks that have been evident in Barber's writing from the beginning (hence my misgivings). Up till now, he's been balancing some interesting content with a sort of tenuous hold on the dialogue and plot development. I've been hoping that when he tips, it'll be towards the good side, not the lame side... but I think this issue went the wrong way.

Setback sure. So yeah, why didn't Bumblebee walk in there and shock them all with his walking stick? That would have worked too, right?  

I'm not even fully convinced that they needed the setback. It was already pretty much hammered home that nobody, even the supposed neutrals, had any love for the Decepticons anyway.

Yeah, I think that's really just splitting hairs.

Well, not really. I think the "Batman trumps the world" device was played out by... I don't know, probably DKR in the 80's. Ever since then, it's been sort of a painful and tedious cliche.

The point is, in any kind of action conflict, you need to have some degree of tension... uncertainty or surprise or a vested sympathy with the protagonist. Like Spike vs Scrapper, this Arcee incident was completely miscalculated and played off all wrong. Would it have been a problem to see her struggle just a bit, or need help, or go into the operation with a window onto her own severe misgivings?

I agree... though even with Batman, that is some tired old shit. The whole thing felt really sloppy in this case. A means to an end, with no interest in how it actually plays. This is why I find Barber is quite good for mapping out larger story arcs in the abstract, but is weak when it comes to the nuts and bolts of actually playing that out on the page.

zmog

 

This time I liked RID and MTME equally. Great issue!

 

I actually have an idea for Barber on how he could salvage Arcee as he's written her so far and turn it into a perhaps interesting and not so implausible scenario. Hear me out:

Back to the Furman origin story for her, Arcee was a product of Jhiaxus "experimenting with gender" in Transformers and it having previously not existed. She gets referred to as "she", whatever word that is in Cybertronian, and is seen as unique for being identifed as "female." So lets take this down to the core essence in all species of what "female" entails when you put gender into the mix - basically females in a species are those who can introduce egg cells...they can introduce new life into the world. That is the fundamental thing, whether you think its PC or not its what the designation entails, being a giver of new life.

So what if we run with that for a second. In all Transformers continuities including this IDW one, the Life Giver for the Transformers species was Primus. What the essence and presence of Primus is in the current universe is still shrouded in mystery, but its pretty clear Primus is going to be a major factor in RID and MTMTE in the future. And in the old Marvel run we had Xarron get possessed by Primus and imbued with a lot of fantastical powers during the Unicron battle.

So how about if, as an embodiment of "gender" that is a "life giver" in the Transformers species, Arcee has somehow been imbued/possessed/altered/something by Primus' essence...and Primus is kinda directing some things/exerting will/ensuring the advancement of Transformer life through her actions. That could explain her seeming hyperabilities in combat, and her seeming omnipresent seeing and awareness of EVERYTHING that goes on on "her planet"...it explains the vagueness of her reasons for working with Prowl, that even Prowl doesn't understand...it would explain why she keeps taking actions to stomp down the Autobot-Decepticon war restarting...it explains better why she is taking actions that are helping Starscream rise to power, and why she is making sure Prowl has leverage over him in doing so - remember, according to the Metrotitan it is essentially Primus' will for Starscream to rise up and become the "conquerer" who will unite all the Transformers for a time...well that would make sense if Starscream is the one who can unite them in conquering the Chaos Bringer, Unicron, and lets face it conquering Unicron is what Primus is always all about...in so doing, as an agent of Primus the "Life Giver", Arcee is helping to protect and advance both Transformer life and all life in the universe...

Thoughts? If nothing else I'm trying to tie a lot of things together and make Arcee's actions and story more meaningful than just "super action psycho ninja" who shows up, kicks butt and then leaves again....

 

An interesting thought, while it would explain why Arcee is so powerful I don't think it would lessen dislike for her as a character. Such a plot would have Arcee take total centre stage, making her The Chosen of Primus, The Life Bringer and Champion Against the Chaos Bringer would more than likely make fans dislike her all the more!
I would rather it be revealed that Jhiaxus's experimentation on Arcee was unstable from the start and her physical and mental condition is deteriorating and will ultimately be fatal, it would explain why she doesn't care about anyone and is so bitter, Jhiaxus's experiment was a slow, painful death sentence.
Or she can just be ripped apart by Megatron  

 

I like your reasoning here, I also like the idea of the god primus moving in strange and what appears at first counter productive ways like when vectur sigmur allowed Galvertron knowledge of the key to the plasma energy chamber or sunstorms mad mysterious primus possession in dreamwave comics or even the illogical naming of starscream as somehow divine. It makes primus's role more questionable and way more interesting than just the matrix solving everything.

 

Although not as intense a read compared to MTMTE, I'm still readily enjoying this series for the political intrigue and interactions between Prowl, Screamer', and Metalhawk.

Spoiler

And gotta love the return of Megs

 

As a biologist, I would like to agree that this is an excellent point. I hope that on SOME LEVEL at IDW, what it means to be female and what that means for Arcee has at least been pondered. They are stuck with the weird backstory; make it work.

Also, I like the thematic reversal from Rodimus = Primus to Arcee = Primus.

I don't remember Prowl ever being that physically impressive in canon, just smart and dangerous behind the scenes. And then Skywarp flies and teleports. But hey, all right.

I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm saying that you have to call it what it is. Without Prowl's little deal with the devil, you've practically ripped the heart out of eleven issues of RiD. He needs a way to circumvent people who've been watching him scheme for millions of years. And, he needs an Autobot who's just as morally flexible as him, but in a different way.

Moreover, while I have clearly and explicitly agreed that it has gone too far, I can understand why this book is using one powerful Autobot as Prowl's blunt instrument, as opposed to having Prowl build his own mini-faction. This book is juggling a lot of characters.

Unless it's Evil Mirage from Spotlight: Mirage, having Mirage doing Prowl's bidding doesn't challenge Prowl as a character. Prowl's trying to harness chaos to create order. Results are uneven but the core of the conflict is interesting.

I also might note, though, that I've already suggested that Mirage would have been a good second accomplice to avoid giving Arcee a random superpower. She should be stealthy but not "fuck you Ravage" stealthy.

Note that I'm talking about narrative concerns, not just tactical concerns. Most of the Autobots are a) tired of war, b) tired of Prowl, and c) inexcusable blabbermouths. Arcee is seductively convenient for Prowl since she's willing, able, versatile, and leaves no loose ends. If you're a spymaster and one accomplice can do it all, you use one accomplice.

But moreover, just flipping through some Tech Specs and assigning all of the "Spy" function bots as Prowl loyalists isn't actually that interesting, compared with a character who hates so much and so hard that he turns to a force he barely trusts or understands just because it wants to be as violent as he wants it to be.

Or in other words, why didn't the Mob invest in five spy-guys, twenty hit-men, and two hundred thugs instead of one Joker in The Dark Knight?

(I swear I have some non-Batman examples in my brain...)

Actually, without the precedent of his alliance with Arcee, it would seem much more out-of-character for Prowl to ally himself with Starscream.

Agreed.

Little bit of devil's advocate, little bit of "good gravy it's not that bad," little bit of "let's see how it plays out," with a healthy dollop of "yeah, Barber really took Arcee's capabilities too far and I hope he recognizes that."

I guess it doesn't help that the worst developments in RiD are still head-and-shoulders above much of the rest of TF fiction in general that I'm aware of. And this is the IDW book that I DON'T buy every week.

 

I have one main issue with this line of reasoning. The definition of "female" you're providing is actually constructed from a definitively sexist masculine perspective, romanticizing the feminine "natural" mystique and neglecting a key factor: females are not the "givers of life". In many species, females do gestate their young... but many others do not. And taking it down to the egg, it then must be acknowledged that maleness can also be defined as the "giver of life", since both male and female components are necessary. You can have as many eggs as you want, but if they aren't fertilized, you aren't giving anyone any life. Without sperm, and egg is just protein and biomass. It's a logical pitfall to privilege one sex over the other in this fashion... but it comes from the tendency for patriarchal culture to construct gendered identities in ways that posit male as a neutral default, and female as the "other" by attributing special characteristics to it (that in turn, culturally determine and impose one's social roles).

And of course, it's exactly the opposite. We are all female at the point of fertilization, and and then become male if we get a Y chromosome.

Anyway, symbolically, within the common masculine human cultural paradigm, I see where you're going with that. But I just had to point out that primal flaw, for all it's worth when discussing "aliens" who are as far-fetched and symbolic as Transformers.  

Yeah, they've been avoiding it long enough. I realize it's a really volatile, hot-potato topic, that could blow up in their faces (if you can forgive the mixed metaphors), but it's about time.

Well, what you don't remember is Prowl ever actually doing ANYTHING in canon. Until recently, he's been chronically underused, and as a result, rarely gets any action. But if Perceptor can become a super-commando for no other reason than because he feels like it, then we should acknowledge Prowl.  

If you want to go back to the old Tech Specs to use them as an indicator, he's actually one of the stronger early Autobots, and is statistically superior to the Seekers in most respects. His only poor stat was his Firepower, and people rarely stop to consider just how tactically relevant and devastating his ability to instantly assess, calculate and strategically respond to anything and everything he sees should be. The dude is an elite.

Which is why I was at least somewhat mollified to see him handily defeat Skywarp a few issues back.

The problem is that you're acting as if the conditions of the story are somehow independent of the writer, when in fact, everything you're talking about is an arbitrary function of the writer's choices. And therein is the problem. Arcee is not necessitated by the story. The author necessitated Arcee as part of his story.

I disagree. Prowl already has an army of enforcers (we see them almost every issue) and carrying on with him as spymaster is not so strange, considering that was basically what he was doing BEFORE the war ended, and all those same guys would still be around, and from what we've seen, most of the Autobots are just as cagey about the Cons as Prowl is (or close). After millions of years of war in a military command structure, it's pretty hard to just stand down, especially when security is still very much in question.

As has been pointed out, Prowl has been played kind of... well... dumb, recently. It highlights a sort of fumbling lack of control on his part, with one crazy, semi-rogue murderer working under him. When things go FUBAR, you see how his desperation is leading him to make poor choices. In many ways, he's more sympathetic now, precisely because conditions are so far beyond his control.

"Evil Mirage"? Really? Mirage is already an elitist professional espionage specialist with borderline morality issues, and a long history of dirty work and shooting Decepticons He is a crack shot, stealth expert, known for extreme competency, who we can assume Prowl has had a long history with. He is EXACTLY the person who would carry out ops like this (moreso even than Jazz), not some violent psychopath ex-criminal berserker with severe authority and self-control issues. Working with Arcee is in fact... not logical.

Moreover, as things are now, Prowl has too may easy outs, morally speaking... Arcee is a loose cannon, and he's so understaffed, he's practically making things up as he goes along. However, if you put Prowl at the top of a larger group, it institutionalizes him, and emphasizes his control (and detachment). This puts him very much in a position of greater moral question, because he calls all the shots as the head of a de facto death-squad. Now that's a morally ambiguous scenario for Prowl.

Sure. I'm not saying Arcee shouldn't be there... but she shouldn't be the ONLY one, and she shouldn't be played as a supreme anti-hero. She would be much better cast as the edgy wild-card in a small task-force. The one the others will complain about having to work with, and are afraid will go nuts and compromise the operation.

Yes, except that her abilities are grossly overstated, and Prowl doesn't really know her. And everything he would know of her should tell him that she's extremely volatile and unreliable. The whole arrangement is pretty improbable, all the more so because we are never given any window into how it actually came about.

First off, I would never arbitrarily assign "spy" bots to Prowl's entourage... and I think you know me better. But the fact is, there are PLENTY of Autobots who would fit very well with Prowl's current operations. Hell... even Jazz, who has already showed himself to be capable on all counts, including making ruthless choices when the circumstances call for it, and currently has some stigma to work through (at least, if Barber is really committed to picking up the pieces of Costa's shameful run. Mind you, I wouldn't consider Jazz to be quite right for that kind of op).

The choice of Arcee... no. The more I think about it, the more firmly convinced I am that it's been a bad idea right from the very beginning.

errrr... "Because Nolan's Batman movies are virtuosically stupid, but apparently just pretentious enough that people don't seem to notice" ? Do you really want to use one of those films as an example of good writing or plotting? Because that will earn you a laugh in the face.  

Again, I don't see that at all. Prowl is logical, methodical, and an established schemer. It's as logical for him to form an alliance with Starscream as it is for Starscream to do the same. Prowl's personal disdain for Starscream should be taking a backseat to the logical advantages to working with him (at least as long as it's convenient). THAT is an interesting dynamic. Prowl and Arcee? After a year, I can say... not so much.

The thing is, I have seen how it plays out. I've been reading for a year now, and I don't think it's playing out well. Despite all the good ideas that have gone into it, I really don't think this series has taken off, and I think this issue is just the latest and strongest example of why this book has problems.

As I've said before, there are definitely some interesting ideas at work in this book, but I've come to realize that I actually don't care one bit about ANY of the characters. There are characters here that I like because I WANT them to be interesting... but they haven't really caught fire. None of them have my attention. I used to think that this series was suffering by comparison with MTMTE... but more and more I'm beginning to feel like it's just leeching off MTMTE's popularity.

I'm sorry if it sounds grumpy, but #11 has really been a wake-up call for me, the critical mass for an "emperor has no clothes" moment. I've been "cautiously optimistic" for 11 issues (and an annual) now... time to stop making excuses.

zmog

 

Enjoyed it. My 12 year old enjoyed it. Its a different book from MTME and having read alllll the interesting little critiques on the book, I'm having a "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?" moment.  

 

Laugh all you want, but I would say that a Nolan film is a) good writing, b) flawed but usually just-adequate plotting, c) entertaining.

You can be the most meticulous plotter in the world, but everything serves the first goal of being worth reading/watching in the first place.

Everything else is a legitimate difference of opinion, I just wasn't sure you got where I was even going with that one.

 

If he's back, will we see the return of the other one as well

 

Ahem...

FIRRIB

 

How do you know I'm not rich?  

Incidentally, "if you're so smart, why don't you do better?" is officially the weakest argument ever. It's like having your brakes fail because of improper installation, and your mechanic telling you "if you think you could do better, why don't you build your own car". You don't have to be an expert to know when something is broken.

Entertaining to whom is perhaps a relevant question. If populism and quality were codependent, reality TV would clearly be the apex of cultural endeavour.  

Nolan and his brother are not really good writers, and are surprisingly terrible at film plotting. Those Batman films are a serious mess, with more gaping plot and logic holes than one should comfortably turn a blind eye too. It's like the very notion of coherency and narrative economy never even occurred to them. DK and DKR barely managed to hold my attention all the way through the first time, and I'm amazed that anyone could watch them twice, beyond perfecting their Bane and Bale voices for satirical Halloween costumes. I've found them to be smart premises turned into unapologetically dumb movies, concealed under a densely ladled veneer of faux intellectualism and self-conscious gritty "realism". I'm amazed that they've done as well as they have, considering how tremendously inflated, disorganized, and self-important they are (yes, just like me).  

If that's the case with RID, then why do I find it so dull? Why do I find the characters and intrigue so shallow?

Maybe I am being harsh. Sometimes the crime of having lofty ambitions and mediocre execution can be more dissatisfying that something that's successfully middle-of-the-road, I suppose...

Except apparently when it's RIRFIB, like this issue. It's nice to see them get it right occasionally.

zmog

 

I'm the first to say that RiD is the weakest of the three books IDW is putting out. Which doesn't make it bad, but it does have problems regarding non-likable characters and somewhat repetitive situations. In particular, Bumblebee is pathetically misused, he hasn't changed one iota since issue #1 and is completely impotent.

So I stopped following the book, and even the space opera interludes didn't suck me back it. I did pick up the Annual just because it was the Annual and liked the flashback scenes as well as the "endorsement" of Starscream out of left field.

I guess the Annual left its hooks in me enough to get me to buy this one (plus I didn't have time to read it in the store   ) and for whatever reason, despite my criticisms, I liked what was going on with it this time. Plus, something clicked for me about the whole Prowl/Arcee/Starscream thing. Not even sure what it was, but it started to make sense rather than just be completely off the wall.

That doesn't erase eleven issues of BB and Metalhawk dithering, with occasional interludes of Wheeljack getting in trouble, which only take pages and credibility away from Prowl's shadow war with the Decepticons, but hey.

Personally I love to dissect works, catalog the flaws, and then put them back together and love them anyway. I guess that's why the somewhat muddled intellectualism of a Christopher Nolan movie or a 2012 Transformers comic book appeals to me more than mere vapidity. Perhaps the perception of some sort of lost potential is not as agonizing to me.

 

My money's on the "Black Room" being tied to Autocracy at the end when Prowl found all of Zeta Prime's weapon's and experimental gadgets and Optimus told him to destroy them all which he likely didn't.

Another hint being the part when Arcee took out Shockwave in company and told Prowl "Your little gizmo worked too."

This all comes to a head on the cover of issue #14 where it clearly shows Prowl and Arcee standing over Wheeljack who's obviously the Sherlock Holmes of this book. So I think Wheeljack discovered that it was Prowl who planted those "Plasma-Density Charges" on Omega. No other Con could get that close to him anyway.

 

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

So apparently there's a table flipping emoticon. (yeah yeah, wrong issue)