Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by TFFan01, Aug 30, 2017.
Same here in Italy
Yeah, should have clarified in the U.S. but nevertheless, G1 is the source material. However, TF Prime still had to make their characters recognizable for people who had watch the movies.
Yes, please. Ditch the movie designs. They deviate too much from general transformers designs.
Sorry - soccer Spiderman is a very fair comparison to a Gobot Motormouth design that was then Spychanger Ox that was then changed to be Ironhide in a dubbed show. Or a cancelled Animorphs toy that ended up being called Soundwave.
Of course there are Beast Wars, Armada and Animated fans (I'm one of them) but the films also ignore those characters looks and traits too. (And Lockdown - as good and as close as he was in AOE - was also still another offender)
(None of this is meant to sound disrespectful of course - each to their own. Smiley insert)
Dude, transformers ARE machines and not biomechsnical organisms. They ARE built. If you look for biomechanical lifeforms, you're in the wrong franchise.
How about cheating? It's not like they never did this. AOE had a lot of cheats, even in the first movie, they've admitted to cheat a lot with the transformations.
Why should the movies be the only TF series that needs to be strongly beholden to G1 and the other TF series be allowed to do what they want? That just feels like a double standard because most of the non G1 characters in other series are pretty much new characters when compared to their G1 counterparts yet none of them ever got the same levels of bashing the movies have gotten. Even Megatron during RID01 and the Unicron Trilogy never evoked G1 either before the movies so how come they get a free pass? Also just because G1 is the most popular doesn't automatically make it the best especially when other series like BW did characters and stories a lot better in comparison which makes your idea of the movies catering only to G1 feel more insulting despite that not being your intention.
Well actually that depends on what TF universe we're talking about. While yes we do have some TF series that do established Transformers as being just machines we have other series that have their backstories more complicated and having them be more then just machines. Prime for example said that they're made out of a type of mechanical based biology that as a result has them having a type of DNA going on. Even Beast Machines outright said that they used to be an organic race at one point. If we're talking strictly about the G1 sunbow show where they are just machines then yes you're correct but for everything else? Not so much. If anything what the movies are doing in that regard both visually and function isn't that drastic.
Cheating was only ever done to a large degree in AOE, and it was obvious. With OP, they could ONLY show the transformation from a specific angle (the front), because it was obvious that the cabover was simply too small of a vehicle mode. And even then, it was obvious that he shrunk in size; for crying out loud, during one of his transformations his windows and grill blatantly shrunk. It looks absolutely ridiculous. We could NEVER get a transformation like this
If he were to have the cabover,
The other case was Lockdown, who had the same situation. Either his transformation had to be obscured, or we could only see it from a front angle.
The ONLY example of cheating in the original 3 movies or the 5th is Megatron, where when he transforms from/into his Jet mode, we don't see moving objects, but rather his Jet just morphs into his body (which is the one downside of that cool design).
However, mass shifting is FAR easier to do when you have hundreds or even thousands of moving pieces, as a) it's hard to tell if thinks are really shrinking/growing due to all the motion and b) since the model's skeleton (or protoform) is what's really growing - and it's covered by vehicle bits - it's easy to mask it. However, when you have these blocky designs, it becomes blatantly obvious when something grows/shrink.
Look how thin the chassis and rear wheels on this truck are. If there weren't thousands of moving pieces, with bits of metal moving from the sleeper to form the legs, then what you'd have is this OBVIOUS mass shift, where OP's legs just pop up out of no where. However, as previously stated, this is an easier task with trucks and jets, but with cars - which are mostly empty space - it becomes even MORE obvious.
The yellow is mostly empty space, except for the seats, which are outlined in purple. Now, with the current designs, turning this into Bumblebee would be easy work, mainly due to the fact that he would be made up of thousands of pieces but also the fact that the movie designs are actually pretty hollow in robot form. If not for their vehicle plates, they'd appear pretty light. I mean just go look at any pic from the transformers in the original 3 films. Notice how under their vehicle plating, they have tons of gaps in their skeleton, especially in the arms and legs. Despite appearing so large, they are a lot of empty space.
But again, for a G1 style BB, this would be difficult. What you'd have is his torso taking up the entirety of the cabin of the car. They could cheat, but again, it would be blatantly obvious, and next to a human, it would look laughable.
At the end of the day, the question isn't IF they can cheat - they can cheat alright - it's whether it would look genuine.
Not in the filmverse, so you're point is moot.
But lets say they are just machines, so what? They still look like MAN MADE machines; large, bulky, heavy looking, almost like a tank on two legs. They don't look like they were made by an advance species, but just some guy in the year 2050. Their robust build would make it difficult for them to move in a realistic manner. Transformers don't have skin and flesh; they are made out of a metal/metal like substance that isn't malleable. As a result, if they want to be fluid like biological organisms, they have to be made of bits. Could you imagine how'd we move and function if we were built like the G1 transformers? It'd be like wearing a suit of armor around all day.
Sorry, but G1 IS the source material for transformers, and that's never going to change. It's the most recognizable and iconic iteration of the franchise. So, when there's a major motion picture made for the franchise, there should be strong roots in the original source material.
That's not to say other generations of transformers can't be included.. but when there's a character like ironhide, or starscream, or prime their appearance should in some way homage the original.
Lastly, movies are a much bigger deal than a cartoon. That's why it matters more. It's something that'll be widely advertised, receive more attention from people around the world, product campaigns, etc. It's not some small budget cartoon that'll run 3 seasons and only really airs commercials on children's tv networks.
Okay, wow this is some good 3D. It's not not live action movie quality yet, but they're not eye-sores. I call this a good start.
That's a very simple answers. Fans want to be able to recognize their favorite characters from the cartoon to the big screen.
You want Optimus Prime ti have similar colors, physical characteristics to all the others, (which the for the most part movie Prime is the BEST example of 'brand recognition')
1. Crosshairs isn't wearing a cape, it's supposed to be a long coat. He's a gunslinger; they wear long coats.
2. As stated above, sure movie Optimus is really good, and Bumblebee I suppose is a good evolution/modernization of him, especially since they kept his yellow and black colors. And Jazz looked ok, but his colors were bland. Vortex...I mean Blackout was really good, and passed for a movie Vortex and all. Brawl too.
3. But guys like Trailbreaker....I mean Ironhide cosplaying as Trailbreaker looked off because....he reminded me personally of trailbreaker. Now I'm not saying Ironhide needed to be a soccor-mom van, but at least add some red and yellow, and give him his gladiator headcrest, and he would have been fine....or at the very least black and white cow colors. That would have been a hoot.
But I could go on all day about all the designs, but I go to the greatest offender of all, Megatron....I mean Mecha-Swampthing.
4. I've never seen a more laughable, and lazy design as '07 movie Megatron; he was the worst. I get it, the plot required him to not have an earth mode, but to have such an awful jet with Megatron's arms sticking out, and have him transform him into a robot Swampthing, you can tell the designers waited to the last minute to design him, and put the least amount of effort into it. At least ROTF Megatron was an improvement.
Being able to recognize and identify you favorite character, without having to scratch your head, and guess for a minute is important to fans; it's part of what keeps them coming back to a franchise. Like Sideswipe, who was a corvette, so he was really tracks. And Hotrod, who transformerd into a black Italian sportscar, so he was really G2 Sideswipe. It's stuff like that which irritates people. It's okay to reinvent the wheel, but you have to keep the old fans happy along with the new. Bayformers....for the most part fails to do that.
I think most of the Bayformers designs would have been more accepted if they had cut back on the exposed mechanical parts. Sure it's good in places, but that's what so unappealing about the Bayformers scrapmetal designs. It's an over saturation of moving parts, especailly when you're focused on the moving parts that you have trouble finding their faces; that's just bad design.
Honestly I think you're now in the minority in this one. The movie designs range from 'awesome', to 'eye vomit'. And unfortunately most of them fall into the 'eye vomit' category. Sure it's an opinion, but it is the popular one.
LOL! I'm sure, Paramount is enjoying losing money with the Bayformers. I think a lot of us are trying to stay positive that a reboot is right around the corner. Bayformers died a dreary death, and if the Bumblebee Movie (if it even makes it to the theaters) is just going to be rigor mortus.
All animation has cheating. That's nothing to hate about.
They have the opposite problem. They're TOO much like G1... in fact those are just the G1 designs. The problem is they look like cartoons, though to be fair it looks unfinished. Maybe I'd like it more if they actually looked like they actually exist in the real world instead of like CGI versions of G1 animation models. I've seen some other fan videos of live action Transformers, including an Optimus that is modeled after a real truck. Till it transformed and I saw the unedited version I didn't even realize there was never a truck in the shot.
The movies don't have to be beholden to G1. They just have to make their characters more recognizable to G1 or any TF fan. Nowhere did I say it was the best but considering almost every series uses it as a basis, it shows how important it is.
This right here. This doesn't mean the movies can't do anything different. Change is an important part of the franchise, no pun intended. However, little things like making Ironhide orange-red, Ratchet red and white, Sideswipe red, not calling Brawl, Devastator, wouldn't hurt. Nameslaping well-known characters is just insulting to fans. Having some consistency between different incarnations of a character shows that Hasbro/filmmakers actually care about the character.
As a matter fact, the rest of the franchise is going this route for the most part. Notice how popular characters like Ironhide, Bulkhead, Ratchet, Knockout, etc. are sharing similarities between their different incarnations.
I'll stay with the current aesthetics as it blends in well with live action reality and it allows for more physical flexibility than G1
I remember watching videos by the ragin nation about all the news from Transformers 4 when it was in filming. When I heard there was a blue Bugatti Veyron, which is supposed to be the fastest in the world, I thought, "It's GOTTA be Blurr." I was thoroughly disappointed. Same goes for Crosshairs. He turns into the same car as the movie version of sideswipe, and he has a yellowish colorscheme, so i thought he would be Sunstreaker (Yes, the car was more green than yellow, but since they changed Sideswipe into a gray car, it wouldn't be too far off of a guess that they mess up Sunstreaker's colors as well). But no, they named him after an obscure targetmaster who should actually be a red and blue militaristic vehicle.
Yeah I'm pretty the whole "they are built" concept hasn't been a thing for a while now—at least in TV media. Plus, it's silly to limit the origin story to one concept, especially when we're talking about the most inconsistent franchise out there.
It's interesting to see a UT fan with that opinion. Still, I disagree. Just because G1 is popular, doesn't mean it has to be held up above the rest of the franchise, especially when the movies manage to be so successful without it. It may work as a token of goodwill towards G1 fans but not to any others. Of course, you could include characters like Hot Shot and Lockdown as offerings to those other groups of fans, but then you're restricting creativity. What I love about this franchise is that it's always changing and I hate when it gets dragged into the past for the sake of some fans' nostalgia. Not to mention, it also implies that G1 had the best iterations of those characters, when it often didn't. Even when only talking about the designs, G1 characters all looked really samey and nothing about them was tailored to specific characters. Simply put, G1 designs were really bland.
It's only a fair comparison when picking and choosing what part of my post you're replying to. And once again, I have to remind people that my point isn't to replace G1 references with references to other parts of the franchise. My point is that the franchise changes so much, referencing just one version of a character is going to leave out a lot of fans.
Riiiiiight. Because we're talking about movies, rather than a mere 3-season kids cartoon. The movies are so much more important than that, they need to hold a very specific 3-season (plus 3 episodes and a movie that bombed) kids cartoon in such high regard.
G1 is more recognizable, but that doesn't change the fact that the movies didn't need it. TF1-4 were insanely huge hits, without any excessive G1 pandering. So the only reason to include it is to please one single, relatively small group of people. Sure, it's a bigger group than fans of other parts of the franchise but clearly not big enough for the movies to consider it any more important.
I can get behind what you've been saying. I think from a branding aspect it makes a lot of sense. I think the movies did it well with Optimus, Bumblebee and Jazz, and to a lesser degree Starscream and Ratchet. Keeping some common elements is smart from a business aspect. They could of kept the movie designs mostly as is with some color changes or slight visual cues added here and there. I never liked the name slapping either.
Separate names with a comma.