Transformers Prime Has Some Of The Most Developed Characters, Period.

Discussion in 'Transformers Earthspark and Cartoon Discussion' started by Soundlips, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. AStreetcarNamedWheeljack

    AStreetcarNamedWheeljack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2021
    Posts:
    571
    Trophy Points:
    132
    Likes:
    +1,517
    The very next episode (Grill) was about Agent Fowler trying to explain the whole thing to his boss. It wasn't done in a good way, either. Fowler just vomits out exposition by the gallon the entire time. Most viewers already knew everything that happened up until that point, and there was no point in rehashing it all. While Fowler is re-enacting the whole show word for word, old footage is being reused in the background so the audience has something to look at. That's not creative, that's a clipshow. Clipshows are terrible and lazy. Grill was unnecessary, bland, and had more filler than a botox clinic. Season 2 really was the lowest point in TFP.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,410
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,091
    As @SPLIT LIP often points out, Prime had two clip shows in Season 2. TWO.

    Most long running anime only have one purely out of necessity to recap the plot. Prime needed two because it was just so goddamn irresponsible with money and had absolutely poor resource management.

    I mean, there are so many things in the show that only get used ONCE that sucked up so much money. Hell, I don't think any assets reused for the New York Subway Tunnels episode (which by the way was designed by people who had clearly never even googled what the New York Subway tunnel system looks like) ever got used again, so tat was maybe close to a million dollars in the drain for ultimately pointless content.
     
    • Like Like x 9
  3. Too qik

    Too qik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2020
    Posts:
    71
    Trophy Points:
    47
    Likes:
    +104
    Nah, it's actually better than animated and MUCH better than G1
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Rojixus

    Rojixus Generation 2's Strongest Soldier

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Posts:
    5,945
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +18,368
    But it isn't, though.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  5. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,410
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,091
    Animated was so well written that the most influential character in the backstory and setting up how the show ultimately ended only needed to appear once per season.

    I mean, S1E6 'Thrill of the Hunt' is the most critical episode of Animated's beginning because of how brilliant Lockdown is as a character. He's indirectly the reason Ratchet and Prowl are on the janitor squad at the beginning of the show after effectively ruining their lives, setting up their character arcs through the show, and leading to the show's climax with the Lugnut Supremes because those wouldn't ever even been around as protoforms had Lockdown not stolen them for the Decepticons in the first place so long ago (and by extension, he's also why Sari exists for the exact same reasons). He also sets up Prowl's ultimate sacrifice to save Detroit by indirectly helping Prowl master the final cyberninja technique which is basically Cybertronian Psychic powers.

    Prime doesn't have a single character as influential or important. It's all about ancient bullshit sent to Earth and Unicron himself gets burned away after the first season and pretty much doesn't do a whole lot even in Predacons Rising.

    And G1...your argument is super weak if you actually think G1 is loved because of the quality of writing. The writers themselves admitted that shit was turned around from draft to final copy in about a week for each script.
     
    • Like Like x 15
  6. Galvatron1998

    Galvatron1998 Maximal

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2016
    Posts:
    1,918
    News Credits:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    197
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Likes:
    +6,151
    Clip shows in a nutshell:
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="
    " title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Posts:
    3,474
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +9,079
    Your average Prime character doesn't even have hobbies and desires beyond "old war rivalry", socalling them Most Developer is kind of absurd. Everytime I remember Arcee's character it is just kind of embarrasing how a character with so much screentime can be so bare.

    Smokescreen being humbled is about as good as I remember things getting.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. Shady boi

    Shady boi Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2020
    Posts:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Velocitron
    Likes:
    +4,175
    Ebay:
    Better at being shit.
     
    • Like Like x 15
  9. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde ‎ ファイヤーコンボイ

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Posts:
    25,001
    News Credits:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +52,902
    Adam Baldwin, but yeah.

    Prime seems to have an endless supply of bafflingly stupid decisions, Dreadwing's arc hitting a brick wall, Starscream going from one of the more dangerous iterations of Starscream to an absolute buffoon, The whole Nemesis / Trypticon thing, Arcee, creating a character but realizing too late that they made him too OP so they had to kill him off (Makeshift), Beast Hunters as a whole, rather than have him be a larger / overarching threat could've been built up for the first two seasons or so they used Unicron up by the end of Season 1, while visually impressive at times the animation was so expensive that they really couldn't go all out and were severely limited in what they were able to do (RID15's more simple and colorful art style allowed them to do so much more with their budget), honestly the staff in general seems like one giant mistake since they seemed like a nightmare to work with and didn't wanna co-operate with anyone.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  10. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Posts:
    2,670
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +4,986
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. Rojixus

    Rojixus Generation 2's Strongest Soldier

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2020
    Posts:
    5,945
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +18,368
    GOTTEM!
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Applejacktimus

    Applejacktimus Still see the Sunshine

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Posts:
    8,755
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Location:
    Laconia-2
    Likes:
    +25,825
    Observation: I scarcely see defense of TFP getting into specifics or examples of why it's 'good' beyond Starscream dancing or Knockout being funny and all their points are spoken in vague positive generalizations, while detractors of TFP are never short on analysis points on where it fails.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  13. Shady boi

    Shady boi Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2020
    Posts:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Velocitron
    Likes:
    +4,175
    Ebay:
    i deadass believe the TFP fandom is the most toxic of the tf fans.

    I will die on that hill.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. RobotKnight95

    RobotKnight95 Unamused and Insane

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Posts:
    3,553
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +2,925
    To side with OP's post - Character writing isn't just spelling out the initial impression or purpose of a character but to hint at secondary and tertiary traits but never spell them out. Let the character's speak for themselves through reactions, conversations, and more.

    Bulkhead
    1) Despite having grievances with Agent Fowler was able to bond with the human agent from their shared status as soldiers to complete a mission.
    2) Was unwelcoming to Smokescreen believing he would be replaced due to his injured status.
    3) Develops a bond with Miko through monster/kaiju movies, metal, and potty humor.
    4) Despite his past with Breakdown he went solo, not even bothering to link up with the team, to save him after Miko's encouragement.
    Bumblebee
    1) Has pride in his speed and is frustrated when he cant transform to chase Knock Out after some goading.
    2) Has a shared bond of video games with Raf.
    Arcee
    1) Breaks regulations against street racing after Vince insults her
    2) Enjoys speeding in the desert with Jack
    3) Was the first to comfort Miko after her revenge-quest with Wheeljack, even going far enough to tell the story how she became partners with Cliff to cheer her up.
    4) Helped Wheeljack vent his frustrations about Magnus and the loss of the Wreckers, using her own experience as an example.
    5) Tells Jack to leave a note for June, so not to worry her, but is frustrated with her parental nature.
    6) Enjoyment of oil baths (hot springs).
    7) Lets Starscream go after learning he killed Cliffjumper.

    Breakdown
    1) Genuinely cares for Vehicon labor, recognizing it as thankless work.
    2) Admits fascination with Airachnid.
    3) Confesses regret in fighting Bulkhead after the Autobot saved him.
    4)
    Knock Out
    1) Went along with Starscream's declaration of Leadership.
    2) Considers Breakdown more than just a partner, missing him to help buff his finish and reveling in the prospect in torturing Silas.
    3) Confesses admiration to Starscream.
    4) Had no qualms switching to Autobot. Even bashful to receive praise from Optimus.
    5) Dislikes Shockwave's belittling of him as an assistant, recipricates Ratchet's gratitude.
    6) Vein.
    7) Enjoys human culture such as illegal street races, drive-in horror movies, and dank memes.

    All three Autobot partners also took time to help their human companions with homework. The thing I've noticed whenever the subject of writing comes up with this show is often people only point to one specific trait, like Arcee's issue with dead partners, but never bother to recall situations beyond that. What these characters do in their down time or when they're just talking. Or how they've changed/grown without force-feeding it to the audience (looking at you, Animated). I'll freely admit the show isn't perfect - nothing in this world is - but I can't help but find it amusing that conversations regarding Prime keep cropping up. Despite what detractors will say they're own inclusion in such conversations makes the show worth talking about.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  15. Aberration

    Aberration Templar Rodimus

    Joined:
    May 30, 2003
    Posts:
    1,425
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +835
    I mean, there's nothing wrong with that on its own. There's a mountain of things in this world that I enjoy that I couldn't write an essay about (or care to defend against detractors). Sometimes the things that bring us joy are indescribable, and that's fine. And if this was a simple "I love Prime" thread, I'd probably just let it be.

    But on the other hand, the original post of this thread pits this show's characterizations against those of other series, and doesn't even list a single character's name to support this, so you definitely have a point here.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout ...and I'll whisper "No."

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Posts:
    45,410
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Location:
    [REDACTED]
    Likes:
    +41,091
    Also started the series by basically taking a defenseless enemy and ripping their guts out for literally no reason whatsoever.

    And this is the good guy. Starscream in comparison constantly has his murdering of Cliffjumper brought up as literally a war crime and all he did was stab the guy once in the chest.

    ...that's not character development. That's just a checklist of character traits.

    And then becomes literally the single biggest detriment to the Autobot cause because she won't shut the fuck up about Cliffjumper dying, as if across countless thousands of years of war, she has not experienced losing a fellow soldier in arms more than twice, and this directly leads to her bitching about Starscream being given sanctuary.

    Had she not whined her ass off and let the bastard actually stay, then Starscream never would have ultimately taken the Omega Keys back to Megatron.

    Oh, and then after multiple episodes of her bitching about Airachnid needing to die and really having all the justification in the world for killing an enemy combatant...she suddenly takes some high road bullshit and doesn't kill her. Even though Airachnid not being dead proceeds to be utterly pointless in the grand scheme of things and everything she does in Thirst could easily be written alternatively or simply ignored altogether.

    I can't really comment on Breakdown because his arc got cut short.

    Knock Out is the best Decepticon and probably only one of the precious few characters who actually DID get proper characterization. The Autobots throw a damn ball around and somehow that's their main entertainment, while Knock Out chills at drive-ins watching B movies. Prime would have been a great show if Knock Out had been an example of the kind of characterization and not a precious exception to the norm.

    Because she doesn't really have any and 'dead partners' is literally the only animosity she has with two completely otherwise unrelated bad guys. Starscream? Killed Cliffjumper. Airachnid? Killed Tailgate a.k.a. White Cliffjumper. It gets brought up a lot because the show hammered that crap in every chance it got. Airachnid literally only existed to be angst bait for Arcee, given how the spider literally stopped having a purpose in the plot and only was brought back to ultimately write her out of the show along with several other plotlines simultaneously.

    This is a problem with the bay films as well, but NOT showing that the robots are themselves individuals who have hobbies and things they do besides being in soldier mode all the time...this is shit most other Transformers series got right, EVEN ENERGON because it has characters doing things for fun instead of just fighting 24/7. It humanizes them, something that is sadly lacking when it comes to a lot of recent non-g1 stuff.

    Yeah, in all honestly in a vacuum, Prime is adequate on its own merits. However, it double whammies because it was touted as being part of an experimental semi-linear continuity that was the Aligned blueprint and so had to adhere to certain expectations that it failed to meet across the board, and then again because it was following the heels of Animated where every single Autobot had a major character development arc and had gone from a dysfunctional band of misfits led by a failure of a Prime to the team that had come together to truly end the Great War where the entire Autobot army before them had ultimately failed.

    Additionally, there was one more piece of pre-release material that stated the show would 'explore what it meant to be a prime' - you know, something it absolutely didn't even broach the topic of.
     
    • Like Like x 12
  17. BigRed

    BigRed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Posts:
    3,474
    News Credits:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +9,079
    Bulkhead is quite literally the same character who goes thru "give people another chance" episode then, the next time the subject is touched, tells Optimus to never trust a 'Con and that he should kill Megatron.
    Arcee forgets she learned that hunting for vengeance is pointless like twice until plot contrivance gives her a easy way to defeat Airachnid but the show acts like she "chose not to kill her to prove she learned her lesson" even though she blatantly didn't. Ratchet has himself PHYSICALLY SAY in ACTUAL DIALOGUE "i have grown... to need... rafael...." because showing him clearly worried about the boy being injured apparently was not enough.

    Prime is DEFINITELY a show that spells out it's plot points to the audience, it particularly loves badly worded exposition.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  18. Shady boi

    Shady boi Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2020
    Posts:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Velocitron
    Likes:
    +4,175
    Ebay:
    The show did explore what it meant to be a prime. If Prime meant to be a inferior overrated boring show.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  19. Novaburnhilde

    Novaburnhilde ‎ ファイヤーコンボイ

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Posts:
    25,001
    News Credits:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    362
    Likes:
    +52,902
    :lolol  :lolol  Damn.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  20. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Posts:
    2,670
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +4,986
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 5