TransFormers Marvel Read Along

Discussion in 'Transformers Comics Discussion' started by Grimlock528, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

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    :lol  Yes, yes it does.
    Interesting.
    Oh, no, the Autobots put him in the wash! :lol 
    He's not the only one. Omega Supreme shrunk, too.
    Agreed.
    [​IMG]
    It would seem that the TF Universe profiles may also be responsible for Screamer's Van Gogh ear, since the perspective here does make it look like he only has one vent/ear.
     
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  2. dj_convoy II

    dj_convoy II Remix!

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    I believe that is precisely why Delbo draws him that way. I prefer to think Screamer had an accident with a robo razor.

    When Wildman comes along, we're gonna get robots spitting out teeth and having chubby cheeks and such, so this is really no big deal to me. The only thing that ever really bothered me (and still does) is when they have eyeballs.
     
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  3. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    Astrotrain finds ice slippery.
    Seasons get a lot more action again this issue. Including getting to form Pianacon. Though, he doesn’t do anything. Sell that toy this month! Next month they’re toast!
    Scorponok explaining how his forces were invited is pretty numerous, and a good way to set up the distrust he will have for Ratbat, even though it’s StarScream to blame.
    Fort Max floating is pretty silly. Maybe the Autobots could of had a boat of some sort and Fort Max could of been standing on it with Prime and Blaster. Oh well.
    Spike mentions how long he has been searching for Buster. Yup, to us it’s been almost a year. Time to wrap this story up, guys!
    Prime with his “as would I” quote is kinda resembling Furmans Prime.
    “So far, nothing has been of interest.”
    “Agreed.”
    Ha! Stellar!
    Razor claw: “RRRRatbat!!” Hahahaha.
    Oops Thundercracker is colored as Starcream. Damn it, Nel!
    As mentioned above, the battle is brutal!
    Although Skywarps teleport was a bit of a loop de loop, I’m glad Bob remembered that about him.
    Rampage spitting out Apefaces arm is hilarious, as is Apefaces response. Damn this issue is just funny. Bob was having fun by now!
    Sound wave getting eaten was dark as F.
    Very nice ending. Star screams plan makes sense and Buster summoning the Autobots knowing it’s a trap is just perfect.
    This issue is a nice lead up to issue 50. I’d almost argue it’s better than 50.
     
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  4. Rojixus

    Rojixus Celebrating 40 Years of Transformers!

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    Kinda setting the bar low there, methinks.
     
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  5. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    Fair.
     
  6. TheUltimateBum

    TheUltimateBum Nautica Lover

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    Yeah. In fact, I don't mind it either, but a lot of fans at the time seemed to be bothered by it.
     
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  7. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    The Underbase Saga: how to get rid of all those old toys in a one go.


    But The Cold War shows why G1 Cons are such a cool faction. They're almost as terrible to each other as they are to Autobots.
     
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  8. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    And then they just pick up each others pieces and head inside lol.
     
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  9. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    (Crap. It's Sunday already.)


    # 49 Cold War (Underbase part 3)

    Finally the two Decepticon factions meet as Scorponok’s crew and ship arrive at the artic where the Ratbat lead Decepticons are now based. From the start it’s a difficult meeting as Starscream “accidentally” forgot to mention to Ratbat that he was contacted by them and that they were coming, and thus Ratbat’s troops think they’re under attack. Add to this Ratbat’s diminutive remarks about humans (and his shock at seeing Zarak), and tensions remain. After Bustter “accidentally” mentions the Underbase to Scorponok, full scale combat erupts between the two Decepticon factions. It’s all according to the plans of Starscream as he takes Buster and dumps him nearby on the ice with an Autobot emergy beacon and then steals Scorponok’s ship. Realising that although it’s trap, Buster calls the Autobots for help reasoning they’re the only ones who can stop Starscream.


    Absolutely brilliant!

    Delbo’s handles all the different characters in the large cast adequately (obliterating the excuse we gave Springer in Headmasters), although we do have some of his consistent art errors plus some strange little things. Colouring is also mostly on point: a bit too much of block colouring perhaps, and of course Thundercracker in Starscream colours -- very unforgiving because:

    The story and the characters is where this shines. This is without any doubt the definitive Starscream story. Screw the cartoon with him creating the Combaticons as a part of powerplay, this is how Starscream should be written. Scheming, manipulative, charming, playing others against each other, willing to sacrifice them all just for his own benefit... It retrospectively casts his comments during the Realvision in the previous issue in a new light (as already mentioned last week), showing that he was playing dumb to placate Ratbat. Here we see him playing the long game and playing his comrades and commander. Holding back information about Scorponok and their arrival, just to ensure there would be tensions from the start. Then boring Scorponok and the accidental reveal by Buster. He’s playing the two commanders against each other to ensure he’s got free play, and his plans go even further by including the Autobots. Absolutely brilliant.

    Rereading this, I’m also starting to wonder if Buster wasn’t perhaps more involved in the scheme. Maybe Starscream made a deal with him (promising him a way to survive or release -- in the end just not what Buster had in mind), because it is very convenient and essential for Starscream’s plans, that Buster makes his comment. And the conversation afterwards could hint to this: SS thanking Buster and Buster commenting that he’s happy to help -- but I’m likely reading too much into this. (Likewise, isn’t Soundwave a mind reader and shouldn’t he as communications officer also be aware?)

    One thing I must say about the battle, again similar to what we saw with the moon battle. The Headmaster miniseries established that pairing with a Nebulon gave the Transformers a huge advantage. But like with the moon battle, there’s no sign of this in this Decepticon vs Decepticon battle. Some of the Headmasters are easily dealt with by the Earth based Decepticons, with only the massive Scorponok really holding his own. But the battle is brutal in TF Marvel fashion with limbs being torn off and robots demolished.

    There’s a lot of similarity here between the meeting of the Earth based and the Nebulon Decepticons, to what we previously had with the Autobots. In a way this can be interpreted as showing that there essentially isn’t much difference between the Autobots and Decepticons. In both cases the groups coming together results in unease and strife, solved by a having to face a common enemy. The difference of course that in case of the Autobots this conflicts was self-inflicted, while the Decepticons were manipulated by Starscream (and in case of the Autobots this was solved by having ritual combat while the Decepticons initiated a battle). And in both cases, as already commented by @MattDallas, there’s the shock of the Earth based groups learning that the others have integrated with humans. Unlike the cartoon (I hate to compare, but still) this isn’t a case of the Autobots are good and the Decepticons are evil. These factions are more alike than they themselves might want to admit. This also fits with what we would see in later issues, with many Transformers walking the dividing line and Grimlock’s comment about it not being Yin and Yang.


    Oh, and by the way, there's also a short scene with the Autobots. Using Fort Max as a boat Blaster, Spike and OP inspect the site of Club Con. A scene that makes little sense (if CLub Con was still there they would be immensily outnumbered) and puts forward the question how they got there (flight is not something TF have in Marvel, unless they're a bird or a plane). The only strong thing here is, as commented by @Grimlock528, that OP his reply and thoughts foreshadow Furman's pondering Optimus. The Optimus who's tormented by guilt because he brought the war to Earth and because all of his troops who have died, and the OP who perhaps even commited suicide.
     
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  10. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Those parallels actually do show the difference between factions. With Autobots you can voice your discontent with your leader and the violence is limited to ritual combat between the individuals. With Decepticons it's always one tick away from the wanton multiple murder. They're violent and only solve things with violence.
    There are fewer self-inflicted conflicts surfacing because everyone's supposed to shut up and to follow the warlord. And if not then there's a fusion blast to the face as Starscream learned at the beginning of the US run.

    Those two groups went to killing each other as eagerly as if they were facing Autobots.
     
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  11. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    True, but suppose there hadn't been the Underbase and Starscream hadn't been manipulating events. I think things would've turned out differently. There would still be tension, but it most likely would've ended with Scorponok just killing Ratbat and taking over. It's because of Starscream that things erupted here and lead to full scale Decepticon war. Without Starscream, the coming together of the Earth based and Nebulon Decepticons would've likely been eerily similar to the Autobots: tension resulting in a clash of the leaders, and the winner rules all.

    In this case especially because Ratbat isn't the Warlord and he's not ruling from strength. He's accepted as commander because he's the only link these Decepticons have to Cybertron (spare parts, resources) and remaining on the good side of the Decepticons on Cybertron is their only hope of ever returning.
     
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  12. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    Ratbat's not so non-threatening. Casetteformers in the Marvel run can take on bots bigger than them. He has no problems overpowering Fort Max.

    It really isn't taking a lot for the Cons to come to blows. That Starscream can reasonably expect both factions turning to violence first... The Autobots have difficulties of opinion over the policies, for the Cons all it takes to turn really ugly is a suggestion than the other leader is hiding a power grab. None of them has any second thoughts about it. Bomb-Burst loves feasting on the enemy commanders... Dude, they're not enemies, they're Cons just like you.

    If it only was a single case, but that's a repeated thing with the Marvel Cons. Tyranny and leading by fear and violence.

    Shockwave outright suggests that he's going to murder any Con questioning his leadership.

    If your guard lets a human into the Ark? Why to not threaten them with murder too?

    Straxus's retinue is as scared of him as are their Autobot prisoners.

    Thunderwing reprimands with his knuckles too.

    The one time when a Decepticon leader tries to argue with his troops is Scorponok who's either influenced by Zarak... Or in a very weak position after the Underbase saga and with not so great track of records as a leader. Or both. Also, he doesn't have all that many troops left.

    On the other hand, Grimlock's leadership is something out of the usual for the faction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  13. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' ... uh, never mind

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    Absolutely. Although rarely in a true one-on-one combat situation. Most of the time in quick strikes, as best demonstrated by Buzzsaw when he takes out Cuththroat in this issue. Rumble was easily defeated by Brawn, while Brawn was defeated by Frenzy thanks to the latter's electronic waves. But in direct one-on-one I'm reminded of the Ravage vs Mirage fight in issue 4 that did end with Mirage losing an arm (or not, art is not consistent), while Ravage was quickly dealt with (just like with the Ravage/Skids fight).

    As commented earlier by others, Fortress Maximus the incredibly powerful fighting force...is a wuss since Spike caused him to be impaled by a shaft. Ratbat getting the drop on him in the midst of a battle does not make me think Ratbat is someone to be feared: Scorponok would rip him apart in combat for leadership.

    All true, however I do want to point out that all these examples show a leader ensuring his troops know that he's in command and allows no disorder. (And also, that we don't see Ratbat do this at all, ever: he vocally threatens but we never see him physically putting any of his troops in their place. Again, Ratbat is not a warlord commanding like Megatron, Shockwave or Thunderwing; he's an accountant allowed to command by the troops, including several who would easily beat him in battle, because it is in their best interest to allow him this position.)

    But what we have in this issue is two Decepticon factions clashing. And I'd argue that if it hadn't been for Starscream, this would've ended the exact same way as with the Autobots: a battle over who would lead, an not a massive battle between all the troops.

    Not sure I agree. Just two issues ago, in #47, we see Snap Trap commending the performance of his troops, Drag Strip and Vortex hanging out and having fun...so is violence and combat really the way amongst them? (Maybe it is when there's a warlord commanding them, and they're just more amiacable here because of Ratbat's leadership.) There's in Marvel no sign that amongst the troops there's discontent or constant threat of violence. The opposite actually I'd argue.

    Of course, when two different factions meet, you get a clash of interests. There are two commanders, each commander has an XO and officers. So making them threatening to members/the commander of the other group doesn't take much (as shown here). This is pretty normal behaviour between groups and even part of the four rules of groups (that I can never completely remember, but it does include maintaining the group and expanding it if need be at the expense of other groups). But would this result in battle between all troops of the two factions? I think not. Because in Marvel thus far we've seen the opposite.

    When earlier there were two factions, one lead by Megatron and one by Shockwave, this didn't result in battle between the troops as here. It was going to be a battle between the leaders, nothing more (a fight that is prevented when Straxus contacts them). While before when Shockwave seized command from Megatron, Megatron didn't lead his troops in combat against Shockwave: it was a one on one fight. And also when Ratbat arrived on Earth he and Shockwave clearly can't stand each other (both want to be in charge, Shockwave as deserved Earth commander and Ratbat representing high command on Cybertron), but it's just between the two of them. (Even when Shockwave leads a group to dethrone Scorponok this may start with a civil war, but it quickly ends with the two leaders fighting.)

    It is thus likely that if it hadn't been for Starscream, it would've resulted in just a battle between the leaders.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  14. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    Transformers Marvel US #50 is live to discuss!
    Giant Sized 50th Issue!
    Starscream Triumphant!
    And you thought the movie was brutal.
    “The Underbase Saga” Part 4.
    The electrifying conclusion.
    “Dark Star”
    Roll out!
     
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  15. Rojixus

    Rojixus Celebrating 40 Years of Transformers!

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    Well, at least Scorponok, Optimus, and I guess Ratbat were good in this. They were the only ones though. The Underbase Saga is definitely one of those stories where the build up is better than the payoff.
     
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  16. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

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    Transformers #50: Dark Star (AKA Gotta Kill 'Em All)
    -Buster is rescued by the Aerialbots, starting off what I believe will be his last important appearance in the entire comic run. Farewell to one of the comic's best human characters.
    -A big Autobot/Decepticon fight ensues, featuring the most lop-sided victory in Transformers history:
    [​IMG]
    This is so hilariously stupid that it's great.
    -Starscream, having been responsible for this fight and the Decepticon vs Decepticon fight in the previous issue, is ironically also the reason that all the Transformers end up working together.
    -Ratbat, Optimus Prime, and Scorponok are very well characterized. Starscream is decent enough, too, but he's so transparently a plot device that it's hard to really care about him in this issue in the way we did last issue.
    -The language Starscream uses when addressing the Underbase is really over-the-top and flowery.
    -Upon absorbing (a small amount of) the Underbase's power, Starscream blows up the ship all the Transformers are in...and then decides to let them live so that he can...go attack the Earth because of reasons. (The real reason for his inexplicable decision-making is, of course, to spare the new toys while also setting up a scenario that allows Budiansky to kill off as many old toys as he likes.)
    -Now we head into the infamous "mass slaughter" part of the comic. Characters repeatedly show up and then are immediately killed, with even big names like Grimlock, Blaster, and Soundwave being killed off in rather quick succession. To demonstrate:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    -Particular items of note during the mass slaughter:
    • When some Decepticons are killed in front of Fruitloop Multipuck (who, by the way, is painfully useless) and Soundwave, the former is considerably more broken up about it than the latter.
    • Soundwave somehow survives being blasted by Underbase-powered Starscream without the need for being revitalized via the Pretender Process, Nucleon, or any other method. He just shows up again with no explanation (other than the fact that the book changed writers). Either that or it's just because Soundwave is so awesome that reality bends to suit his needs.
    • The Seacons get the ax three issues after their debut. Poor Seacons. (At least they got more to do in the UK.)
    • Grimlock is actually killed by the Decepticon Pretenders, not Starscream. Teamwork!
    -Scorponok, Ratbat, and then Starscream (having fulfilled his duty of killing all the old toys) chase after Optimus, whom they believe is going after the Underbase. Scorponok and Ratbat leave their partners to get killed by Starscream in the process, because that's just how Decepticons roll.
    -Optimus's plan to defeat Starscream by luring him to the Underbase and overloading him with its power is actually pretty clever.
    -Scorponok kills off the last old toy (Ratbat), establishing himself as the sole Decepticon leader (at least until Megatron turns out not to be dead. And Thunderwing shows up. And Starscream comes back to life and betrays him. And Shockwave turns out to still be alive....) It's a pretty cool moment for Scorponok.
    -Even neater is Scorponok's acknowledgment that Prime is braver and more intelligent that he realized. It's a good character moment and sets up more development from him later.
    -Underbase-powered Starscream is always creepy-looking, but this is particularly true when he absorbs all its power (right before he explodes):
    [​IMG]
    AUUGH!
    -And that's about it. Starscream dies, and the two sides go their separate ways, with Scorponok now leading all the Decepticons.

    Overall Thoughts: This comic has a lot of good character moments for Scorponok, Ratbat, and Optimus, but that can't hide the fact that its primary purpose is to kill off old toys, not to tell an actual story of any kind. The way characters die so quickly (and often en masse) makes it difficult to care about any of the deaths, and the fact that Starscream is basically reduced to being a plot device takes away from his Machiavellian scheming in the first three parts of the saga.
     
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  17. Grimlock528

    Grimlock528 Well-Known Member

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    If I recall correctly, I think this is the final time we see Buster in the series.
    I feel like this is Bobs swan song. At this point, he’s asking to be taken off of the book. The moment he kills off Blaster (obviously his favorite character), he ends his commitment to the series. He will have to wait 5 more months before being able to convince Marvel to put Simon in charge, and it will show.
    Anyway, I like to pretend this is his farewell, even though he will have 5 more issues to go.
     
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  18. Haywired

    Haywired Hakunamatatacon

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    I liked how Starscream mutation was progressing over time between the panels. He had more and more greeble visible on himself even before he took all of the Underbase.

    But the story is one big murderfest performed on the old toys. It's even more cynical than the TFTM.
     
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  19. shamanking282

    shamanking282 Well-Known Member

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    It's always fun to tell friends who have a very casual knowledge of TFs about Buzzsaw. I can just be like, "y'know Omega Surpeme? (points at Titan) One of Soundwave's tapes took him out in one shot". It's hilarious.
     
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  20. Longitudinalwave

    Longitudinalwave A Big Fan of (Sound/Shock)wave

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    That it is. TF:TM had, at most, 13 confirmed deaths (assuming that Skywarp, Thundercracker, and the Insecticons were actually dead when they were reformatted). This issue has a death count of 50+! Even counting storyboard deaths that didn't make it into the final film, this issue far outstrips the movie in terms of character death.
     
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